Why the LEAF Gen 2 and not the 220 miles Tesla Model 3?

[jlv]

On the one hand you have the spartan interior of the Model 3, on the other you have the new steering wheel on the LEAF. All those buttons!

But this alone ought to cinch the decision for anyone disliking the single touchscreen for controls in the 3. There are lots of good reasons for real buttons -- tactile feedback and all.

 

[evnow]

the leaf looks like it would be exactly what you expect to get from hertz when you click "confirm rental".

I don't know - I see more Ford Fusions in the rental car place than Mazda 3 :lol:

 

[GRA]

Yes, the Tesla is nicer looking. But there is more to a car than that. The Nissan now looks nice enough (I bought my 2012 despite the awful looks) for me.

The Leaf has far greater utility for hauling people and stuff, being a hatchback. <snip>

OTOH, while the the Model 3's trunk entrance makes loading tall cargo an issue, it gives you unobstructed length with the rear seats folded down, and the LEAF is seriously compromised even without the amp (unacceptably so to me, and probably anyone who often carries a bike inside, or wishes to sleep in the car). Via IEVS:

Unless it's possible to fold the seats so that the rear end is flush or nearly so with the cargo area floor, and there's at most a gentle slope up the seat backs when in that position, this simply sucks for cargo utility.

 

[Joe6pack]

The Model 3 reminds me of a Dodge Neon or Stratus. Does not look like an expensive car, yet it is.

 

[EatsShootsandLeafs]

The Model 3 reminds me of a Dodge Neon or Stratus. Does not look like an expensive car, yet it is.

Damn, now that you say that I can see it. But I think they really lost the plot on the front of the model 3. it's gross. The car from the side and back looks nice, though. From the side particularly nice.

 

[edatoakrun]

... I think they really lost the plot on the front of the model 3. it's gross...

I like it.

Derivative though it is, of a car with truly innovative styling...

http://www.fotosdecarros.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/26/15/Renault-Caravelle-coupe-1962-f3q.JPG

 

[internalaudit]

Anybody still on the fence?

I don't like Model 3 front.

I didn't notice that bulge above the front fenders until this was posted. Good thing my daughter wants a black Model 3.
http://forums.redflagdeals.com/tesla-model-s-x-y-roadster-discussion-1773493/219/#p28198892

 

[GetOffYourGas]

Yes, the Tesla is nicer looking. But there is more to a car than that. The Nissan now looks nice enough (I bought my 2012 despite the awful looks) for me.

The Leaf has far greater utility for hauling people and stuff, being a hatchback. <snip>

OTOH, while the the Model 3's trunk entrance makes loading tall cargo an issue, it gives you unobstructed length with the rear seats folded down, and the LEAF is seriously compromised even without the amp (unacceptably so to me, and probably anyone who often carries a bike inside, or wishes to sleep in the car).

I have never had any desire to sleep in a car, although I understand there are people that do. For me, I instead carry a softball-sized hammock and some rope for sleeping. The beauty of the Northeast - trees are not hard to come by.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06XGR5BR...t=&hvlocphy=9005171&hvtargid=pla-305487447280

As for a bike, I have put my mountain bike in my Leaf many times. It's easy to do without even removing a wheel. Good luck doing that in a Model 3.

 

[EatsShootsandLeafs]

Anybody still on the fence?

I don't like Model 3 front.

I didn't notice that bulge above the front fenders until this was posted. Good thing my daughter wants a black Model 3.
http://forums.redflagdeals.com/tesla-model-s-x-y-roadster-discussion-1773493/219/#p28198892

The model 3 from that angle just looks like an old car, like something from the 90's that was trying to be futuristic. I really do not like that vantage at all. The s has it a bit, much far less so.

I see a number of people complain about it looking ugly from the front when I google it. I figured it out (well, others did). it's the smooth front. Look at the s and x. They have a badge/break in the lines. Much better.

 

[Durandal]

Looks more like a Porsche 911 turbo, to me.

 

[edatoakrun]

The 2018 LEAF reveal confirmed what was already a near certainty.

The Tesla model 3 simply is not competitive with the LEAF, due to its very high price, answering this topic question, with:

DUH.

2018 LEAF:

$36,850, fully loaded.

About the same price as the as-yet-unseen Tesla model 3 stripper.

https://www.nissanusa.com/electric-cars/2018-leaf/configure/summary...

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=24488&start=50

BEV buyers who in the midst of middle-aged panic (high-spending consumers of plastic surgery and hair transplants) will buy the model 3 in the ~$50 k to fully-loaded ~$100 k (?) configurations TSLA will concentrate on delivering.

Perhaps there will be enough of these buyers, willing to spend enough per car, to eventually make the model 3 profitable...but I doubt it.

The LEAF, which will be delivered at about half the average model 3 sales price, is aimed directly at the mass market, the first BEV designed and built to compete directly with ICEVs.

The LEAF's success in the mass-market is not a forgone conclusion, because it depends on governments worldwide eventually ending their market incentives favoring ICEV and gasoline sales (and nowhere in the world are these higher than the US) in the same time frame as BEV incentives are phased out, but with the LEAF (and future models developed from the same platform) Nissan has built the first BEV with a real chance.

 

[EatsShootsandLeafs]

^^^^

Referring to model 3 buyers as merely suffering from a midlife crisis is a bit much, don't you think?

That "$36,500" leaf you claim is similar to a "model 3 stripper" is disingenuous to say the least. I can buy a fully loaded nissan sentra for less than a stripped-down entry level BMW M5.

Here's another way to look at it. You can get the fully loaded Leaf. Or, you can spend less than 10% more on a model 3 and have a car that has 50% more range, 75% more power, fast-charges 50% faster, and has a nation-wide charge network that actually allows you to perform that charge.

So the real question is not why would you buy a model 3 premium over a leaf SL, but what sort of drugs are you on that you wouldn't?

 

[abasile]

Given that Nissan and its dealers will end up discounting the new LEAF, it'll occupy a different market segment compared with the Model 3. For those who can afford to pay more for the Model 3 and want an EV for more than just zipping around town, the range, power, and Superchargers should be well worth the price, as stated above. However, I really see the Model 3, the Bolt, and the new LEAF as allies in the battle to retire the ICE and increase overall EV market share. Kudos to Nissan for investing in EVs!

By the way, the distinctive front end is probably my favorite part of the styling of the Model 3...

 

[edatoakrun]

^^^^

Referring to model 3 buyers as merely suffering from a midlife crisis is a bit much, don't you think?...

Consider the first Model 3 "buyer":

https://qph.ec.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-bfaa581b000f019dbceb8851bac3637d-c?convert_to_webp=true

When I see that, it occurs to me I could probably use some work myself...

="EatsShootsandLeafs"
Here's another way to look at it. You can get the fully loaded Leaf. Or, you can spend less than 10% more on a model 3 and have a car that has 50% more range, 75% more power, fast-charges 50% faster, and has a nation-wide charge network that actually allows you to perform that charge...

What model 3 are you talking about?

If and when TSLA ever delivers that model3, you will be able to see all its deficiencies compared to the less expensive to buy, and far less expensive to own, LEAF.

Given that Nissan and its dealers will end up discounting the new LEAF, it'll occupy a different market segment compared with the Model 3...

Agreed

The Tesla model 3 (and proposed model Y) should be compared to BEVs closer to their price range, like the Audi and Jaguar BEVs, both due to arrive in 2018.

 

[EatsShootsandLeafs]

What model 3 are you talking about?

Please, let's be serious.

 

[EatsShootsandLeafs]

Given that Nissan and its dealers will end up discounting the new LEAF, it'll occupy a different market segment compared with the Model 3. For those who can afford to pay more for the Model 3 and want an EV for more than just zipping around town, the range, power, and Superchargers should be well worth the price, as stated above. However, I really see the Model 3, the Bolt, and the new LEAF as allies in the battle to retire the ICE and increase overall EV market share. Kudos to Nissan for investing in EVs!

By the way, the distinctive front end is probably my favorite part of the styling of the Model 3...

Yeah I do see the leaf as a potentially successful car for an EV, but it will just be an entry level EV. I see some value to the S because it's close to $20k after federal rebates. It's the SL with a price point that puts it into model 3 territory that doesn't make sense.

 

[EatsShootsandLeafs]

The Tesla model 3 (and proposed model Y) should be compared to BEVs closer to their price range, like the Audi and Jaguar BEVs, both due to arrive in 2018.

Comparing a model 3 with a start price of $35k to an ipace which is going to be the better part of $100k? Okay.

 

[GetOffYourGas]

So the real question is not why would you buy a model 3 premium over a leaf SL, but what sort of drugs are you on that you wouldn't?

Read the thread and find out! Lots of good reasons.

 

[edatoakrun]

What model 3 are you talking about?

Please, let's be serious.

Are YOU serious?

I expect to be able to buy a fully-loaded 2018 LEAF next year for about $35 k, ~$25k here in California, after Fed tax credit and CA rebate.

What model 3 do you seriously expect CA buyers to be able to buy for "10% more", or ~$27.5 k?

 

[EatsShootsandLeafs]

What model 3 are you talking about?

Please, let's be serious.

Are YOU serious?

I expect to be able to buy a fully-loaded 2018 LEAF next year for about $35 k, ~$25k here in California, after Fed tax credit and CA rebate.

What model 3 do you seriously expect CA buyers to be able to buy for "10% more", or ~$27.5 k?

So now we're specific to CA?
You're changing the goalpost.

Leaf SL = $36,500
Model 3 Premium = $40k

In any case, people in CA will be able to buy the Premium without extended range (the one that gives it twice the range of the Leaf) for $40k in CA and still take advantage of full federal.

But federal will end up on both of these in the near future. Faster on tesla because it's selling more EVs than Nissan (people want them more), but even nissan will eventually hit 200k sales and wind down the federal as well.