Why the LEAF Gen 2 and not the 220 miles Tesla Model 3?

[GetOffYourGas]

yeah, too close to call that. You can probably make it most of the time but its not Winter per se, you need to worry about. My biggest range hit is not temperature, its precipitation so heavy rain in the middle of Summer will kill your range faster than sub freezing weather. Add snow to the mix and you could be even worse.

Why does the rain affect mileage?

Increased air resistance. Use of the windshield defogger. Increased rolling resistance through puddles.

 

[Tsiah]

I'd get the LEAF 2 over the Tesla because I can't afford a Tesla and don't want to wait till 2020 to get one. :lol:

I'd get it over the Bolt because I think the Bolt is ugly and you don't get the same amenities for your dollar... But GM has proven they're battery technology with the Volt so that's one thing you get over the LEAF.

 

[Tsiah]

yeah, too close to call that. You can probably make it most of the time but its not Winter per se, you need to worry about. My biggest range hit is not temperature, its precipitation so heavy rain in the middle of Summer will kill your range faster than sub freezing weather. Add snow to the mix and you could be even worse.

Why does the rain affect mileage?

Increased air resistance. Use of the windshield defogger. Increased rolling resistance through puddles.

Ah, I wasn't thinking about any of that.

 

[internalaudit]

I'd get the LEAF 2 over the Tesla because I can't afford a Tesla and don't want to wait till 2020 to get one. :lol:

I'd get it over the Bolt because I think the Bolt is ugly and you don't get the same amenities for your dollar... But GM has proven they're battery technology with the Volt so that's one thing you get over the LEAF.

Hopefully this affects very limited customers.

UPDATE: Early Chevrolet Bolt Owners Being Notified By GM For Potential Battery Failure
http://insideevs.com/chevrolet-bolt-battery-failure/

 

[NeilBlanchard]

Water on the road greatly increases rolling resistance, and water is much higher mass than air - and your car accelerates each and every drop of water as it hits it.

 

[SageBrush]

Water on the road greatly increases rolling resistance, and water is much higher mass than air - and your car accelerates each and every drop of water as it hits it.

Yep.

That big plume of water kicked up behind your car got there through battery work.

 

[Nubo]

yeah, too close to call that. You can probably make it most of the time but its not Winter per se, you need to worry about. My biggest range hit is not temperature, its precipitation so heavy rain in the middle of Summer will kill your range faster than sub freezing weather. Add snow to the mix and you could be even worse.

Why does the rain affect mileage?

Instead of having to push air molecules out of the way of the car, now you're pushing water molecules out of the way. A bucket of water weighs a lot more than a bucket of air.

 

[NeilBlanchard]

Counterintuitively, water vapor is lower density than air.

A typical car with say 25 sq ft of frontal area - pushes about 4.5 TONS of air out of the way PER MILE.

 

[Nubo]

Counterintuitively, water vapor is lower density than air.

A typical car with say 25 sq ft of frontal area - pushes about 4.5 TONS of air out of the way PER MILE.

Ok, I was talking about liquid water.

 

[dgpcolorado]

Counterintuitively, water vapor is lower density than air...

Yes, this is something that pilots learn early on: humid air is less dense than dry air (takeoff runs are longer to get the increased speed to generate the lift needed).

Liquid water, on they other hand, is something else entirely!


I am sure that you know this, but for extra credit for the others here: "Why is humid air less dense than dry air?"

 

[GRA]

Counterintuitively, water vapor is lower density than air...

Yes, this is something that pilots learn early on: humid air is less dense than dry air (takeoff runs are longer to get the increased speed to generate the lift needed).

Liquid water, on they other hand, is something else entirely!


I am sure that you know this, but for extra credit for the others here: "Why is humid air less dense than dry air?"

It's all the fault of those morbidly obese diatomic molecules, Nitrogen and Oxygen!

 

[SageBrush]

Counterintuitively, water vapor is lower density than air...

Yes, this is something that pilots learn early on: humid air is less dense than dry air (takeoff runs are longer to get the increased speed to generate the lift needed).

Liquid water, on they other hand, is something else entirely!


I am sure that you know this, but for extra credit for the others here: "Why is humid air less dense than dry air?"

It's all the fault of those morbidly obese diatomic molecules, Nitrogen and Oxygen!

Yep!

Atomic weights:
H - 1
N - 14
O - 16

So oxygen gas (O2) is 32
nitrogen gas (N2) is 28
and water vapor (H2O) is 18

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Counterintuitively, water vapor is lower density than air...

Yes, this is something that pilots learn early on: humid air is less dense than dry air (takeoff runs are longer to get the increased speed to generate the lift needed).

Liquid water, on they other hand, is something else entirely!


I am sure that you know this, but for extra credit for the others here: "Why is humid air less dense than dry air?"

H2O atomic weight; 18

Air atomic weight, a bit more complicated but composes two primary elements N2 (weight 28) and O2 (weight 32) so matter which you choose, the water adds volume but little weight.

This is all pretty straight forward if you understand the truly important things in life; Its easier to hit a homerun during Spring when humidity is generally higher than in the drier air of Summer.

 

[SageBrush]

This is all pretty straight forward if you understand the truly important things in life; Its easier to hit a homerun during Spring when humidity is generally higher than in the drier air of Summer.

:mrgreen:

 

[EatsShootsandLeafs]

Anybody still on the fence?

 

[GetOffYourGas]

Yes, the Tesla is nicer looking. But there is more to a car than that. The Nissan now looks nice enough (I bought my 2012 despite the awful looks) for me.

The Leaf has far greater utility for hauling people and stuff, being a hatchback. It's also several thousand dollars cheaper than the Model 3, especially when comparably equipped.

So no, it's not cut-and-dry. And yes, I am still on the fence. The Bolt is in the running for me too. I'm still waiting for that 60kWh / 100kW (DCQC) Leaf+ we are promised for next year. If it comes in before the tax credits expire, it is the most likely replacement for my 2012 Leaf.

 

[evnow]

Anybody still on the fence?

I don't like Model 3 front.

 

[Oils4AsphaultOnly]

Yes, the Tesla is nicer looking. But there is more to a car than that. The Nissan now looks nice enough (I bought my 2012 despite the awful looks) for me.

The Leaf has far greater utility for hauling people and stuff, being a hatchback. It's also several thousand dollars cheaper than the Model 3, especially when comparably equipped.

So no, it's not cut-and-dry. And yes, I am still on the fence. The Bolt is in the running for me too. I'm still waiting for that 60kWh / 100kW (DCQC) Leaf+ we are promised for next year. If it comes in before the tax credits expire, it is the most likely replacement for my 2012 Leaf.

Me too. I like hatchbacks more than sedans. But that supercharger network sure is compelling!

 

[Nubo]

Anybody still on the fence?

I'm leaning heavily towards the LEAF. The styling is fine and in fact in the photos you presented, I realize I prefer the LEAF aesthetically.

 

[EatsShootsandLeafs]

Yes, the Tesla is nicer looking. But there is more to a car than that.

There is, like power, range, and charging, all areas in which the tesla handily crushes the leaf.

I don't like Model 3 front.

I don't either in fact. Something kind of weird about it, but the rest of the car looks like a premium grade car; BMW, Lexus, Infiniti, whereas the leaf looks like it would be exactly what you expect to get from hertz when you click "confirm rental".