Which would you choose for $700, L3 port or 6.6 kw charger?

[garygid]

They did not say that doing more QCs per day is not possible.

They did not tell us what "if necessary" means.
Presumably high (or low) cell temperature is one issue.

Hopefully, the LEAF will "protect" itself, but it would be VERY HELPFUL for planning trips if one knew the significant parameters, the preferred operating ranges, the limits, AND had a way to meaningfully monitor those parameters.
A little software work, like a 4-hour graph of battery cell temperature, showing the highest module (or cell), the lowest, and the dashboard (presumably average) value. Then, on could spot "harmful" trends in time to do something about them, instead of suddenly having the EV decide to "go no farther".

Possibly, driving up (6000 ft) to Big Bear (drive 60 miles, +1000 ft on freeway, QC at brunch, then uphill for 20 or 35 miles) ... on a REALLY HOT day would be worse than 6 QC's spaced very 2 hours on a relatively cool day?

But, the point is, we do not know.

We do not even have a numerical battery (or hottest cell) temperature.

 

[tps]

We do not even have a numerical battery (or hottest cell) temperature.

When I asked (in the suggestions for Nissan forum) for a numerical battery temperature reading, it seemed as if just about everyone throught I was crazy for wanting that information...

However, as with the State-of-Charge gauge, it's likely that each segment of the battery temperature gauge represents a certain number of degrees, so we'll have to learn what the lowest temp is and how many degrees-per-segment, then we can determine the actual temperature registered by the gauge.

 

[EVDRIVER]

Nissan likely has quite a bit of monitoring on the pack and will keep everything within limits and also warn if anything is not. if there are any issues worth taking action on then I'm sure you won't need to monitor that. This car is sold to the general population, I doubt the BMS and warning systems would be so laxed. In addition I'm sure detailed data is logged and reviewed at each service not to mention remote alerts to Nissan for anything out of pattern. Besides, if it is not something that will concern Nissan via monitoring or user alerts then they likely won't do a thing about it regardless nor will changing your driving really be a big factor. Perhaps if you live and drive in extreme heat you will be pushing things harder but again, if it is too much you will know. I think people are attempting to micro manage a system that already has that capability to protect Nissan and the customer as much as possible, drive the car and enjoy it, IF or when you get one. ANd this is a poll of L3 VS more L2, I suggest those this concerned about the above skip L3 because it will be the most destructive factor to the pack because of heat.

 

[garygid]

How about L3 charging to 100% on cool days?

We have heard about 30 minutes from the rare "completely empty" (zero "usable") if one selects the 80% charge setting (if it is cool enough), right?

If one selects the 100% setting, does it add about another 45 minutes (if the battery is still cool enough)?

In the "suggestions" against using QC too often, Nissan does not specify 80% use, or 100% use.

Perhaps the 100% QC is even better because the reduced charge rate will let the battery cool a bit?

 

[EVDRIVER]

How about L3 charging to 100% on cool days?

We have heard about 30 minutes from the rare "completely empty" (zero "usable") if one selects the 80% charge setting (if it is cool enough), right?

If one selects the 100% setting, does it add about another 45 minutes (if the battery is still cool enough)?

In the "suggestions" against using QC too often, Nissan does not specify 80% use, or 100% use.

Perhaps the 100% QC is even better because the reduced charge rate will let the battery cool a bit?

I thought L3 only goes to 80%, I would never charge on L3 past that point regardless of the starting temp of the pack.

 

[garygid]

Apparently the EV can control and reduce the QC (L3) charge rate, and at least approach 100% usable (90% of total).

Initially charging at about a 40 kW rate (about 19 kWh in just under 30 minutes), the QC can be "throttled back" to something under 4 kW (400v 10A), I think.

Presumably it will go even lower, perhaps down to 1200 watts (400 volts and 3 amps), but certainly to "OFF".

The LEAF's BMS and L3 charge control should be capable of essentially 100% QC charging without damage to the battery, right?

 

[DarkStar]

I thought L3 only goes to 80%, I would never charge on L3 past that point regardless of the starting temp of the pack.

DC Quick Charge (CHAdeMO) will go to 100%, but it takes about 45 minutes from 0% charge. The first 25 minutes will get you to 80% and the last 20% take an extra 20-25 min. The Leaf controls the charge rate through the entire process, so it will reduce the current depending on a variety of factors (I'm sure temperature is one).

 

[EVDRIVER]

I thought L3 only goes to 80%, I would never charge on L3 past that point regardless of the starting temp of the pack.

DC Quick Charge (CHAdeMO) will go to 100%, but it takes about 45 minutes from 0% charge. The first 25 minutes will get you to 80% and the last 20% take an extra 20-25 min. The Leaf controls the charge rate through the entire process, so it will reduce the current depending on a variety of factors (I'm sure temperature is one).

Yes, the point being you can hit the pack harder early in the cycle and the latte part is still likely higher than L2 to expedite. Nissan is clear about limiting L3 to no more than I think two-three (?) per day, this is no doubt a heat issue. If people follow the guidelines they should be fine, there wil always be people that will worry far too much about the details to a silly level. I expect the pack to be more idiot proof than not.

 

[garygid]

If the LEAF was really idiot proof, wouldn't it at least send you a "Getting Too Hot in 15 minutes, Move Me!" message if parked (almost) too long in too-hot AZ sunshine?

Or, having told the LEAF that your destination is a QC station, it could tell you something like "Gary, Warning. Due to heating at this speed, the QC to 100% might take 47 minutes, not 21. To arrive and finish charging earlier, I suggest 56 mph, not 69".

 

[Coffee_Slurry]

I have heard from electrical designers that while CHAdeMO DC fast charge allows for all kinds of controls and communication, the hardware that can do 440V AC to high-current DC is really not that good at LOW current. They would have to have a second internal charger to take over at lower current.

So while the port and protocol may allow it, there might be DC chargers that simply don't have the ability to charge below some high-kW threshold. That could be a reason for the 80% cutoff as well.

 

[DarkStar]

I have heard from electrical designers that while CHAdeMO DC fast charge allows for all kinds of controls and communication, the hardware that can do 440V AC to high-current DC is really not that good at LOW current. They would have to have a second internal charger to take over at lower current.

So while the port and protocol may allow it, there might be DC chargers that simply don't have the ability to charge below some high-kW threshold. That could be a reason for the 80% cutoff as well.

There really is no difference between what the CHAdeMO does and the internal charger of the LEAF. The big difference is how much current either device can handle. The reason why most CHAdeMO units are three-phase is because its more efficient to convert the AC to DC at that voltage for the vehicle. Your internal charger is already takes 240 or 120 volts and converts it to DC and boost it to the necessary voltage to charge the pack, but you lose on the amperage. CHAdeMO is able to maintain a higher amperage, but can range anywhere between 0 amps and it's maximum current.

No need for a second charger...

 

[smkettner]

I have heard from electrical designers that while CHAdeMO DC fast charge allows for all kinds of controls and communication, the hardware that can do 440V AC to high-current DC is really not that good at LOW current. They would have to have a second internal charger to take over at lower current.

So while the port and protocol may allow it, there might be DC chargers that simply don't have the ability to charge below some high-kW threshold. That could be a reason for the 80% cutoff as well.

Seems like you could pass the L3 to the next EV and then use L2 once the charge has slowed at the end

 

[garygid]

Apparently:

L3: 45 minutes 0% to 100% usable

L3+L2: 30 minutes 0% to 80% on L3,
then move car to L2 (and possibly wait in line?),
and almost 2 hours more 80% to 100%.

So, 45 minutes vs. 150 minutes.
Not hard to see the difference, right?

Or, maybe the L3 can also stop at 90%, or 95%, to be more "gentle" with the battery?

 

[DarkStar]

Or, maybe the L3 can also stop at 90%, or 95%, to be more "gentle" with the battery?

It's all up to Nissan to allow us owners to be able to control this. I would prefer that they add options to manually select charge rate as well as maximum state-of-charge.

 

[garygid]

+10, yes, me too.

They could keep the simple defaults and choices for "most", but
have an "Advanced" mode with more information and more control.