Which would you choose for $700, L3 port or 6.6 kw charger?

[LEAFer]

The reason I selected "both" is due to the higher # of L2 stations available; this allows me a] a "Plan B" if the QC is busy; and/or b] visit more places at the limit of my return-home-range ( I only need, let's say, 25 miles extra to get home, and that would take up to one hour, which is a convenient time frame ); and c] QC is great to have for i} resale ii} 200 mile destination overnight trips.

 

[tps]

I want both. QC for trips along Interstate with QC stations and a more powerful on-board charger to get faster "top off" at L2 charge points at parking lots, stores, etc. I think the on-board charger should be 7.2kW to fully take advantage of an EVSE capable of 30A/240V. At home, a Leviton 16A/240V EVSE will be more than enough for my normal nightly charging needs. QC along the freeway would bring both NYC and DC well within the range of the LEAF from my location north of Philadelphia.

 

[Herm]

I would choose the L3 chademo port for $700

I would also want a low cost ($1k) charger to use that port at home, using 240V at about 60A or 14.4kw.. and adjustable so I can dial it down to 1kw if desired. I would also like either the external chademo charger or the car's internal charger to charge up to only 90% or 95% as a default, then have a button to fully charge up to 100% as desired, call it the extra range button.. I dont need to fully recharge everytime.. just like Tesla does today with the Roadsters charger.

 

[DarkStar]

EVSEs can already vary the charging level dynamically to the vehicle. If an EVSE is designed with extra electronics (and intelligence) it could communicate with a home system to determine the appropriate maximum amperage to the car.

When you plug in a J1772 compliant vehicle, it checks the pilot signal and "asks" how many amps it can draw from the EVSE. The EVSE can reply with 30 amps. For example if there was more demand in the home for electricity and the EVSE was configured to reduce the amperage to the vehicle, what it does is it dynamically modifies the pilot signal to state 20 amps and the vehicle is required to reduce its usage immediately to that new maximum level.

Personally, I would rather see the software in the Leaf be configured to allow the owner to view the maximum amp draw from the EVSE, the current amperage the Leaf is pulling, and allow me to manually tell the Leaf to pull less amperage.

 

[EVDRIVER]

EVSEs can already vary the charging level dynamically to the vehicle. If an EVSE is designed with extra electronics (and intelligence) it could communicate with a home system to determine the appropriate maximum amperage to the car.

When you plug in a J1772 compliant vehicle, it checks the pilot signal and "asks" how many amps it can draw from the EVSE. The EVSE can reply with 30 amps. For example if there was more demand in the home for electricity and the EVSE was configured to reduce the amperage to the vehicle, what it does is it dynamically modifies the pilot signal to state 20 amps and the vehicle is required to reduce its usage immediately to that new maximum level.

Personally, I would rather see the software in the Leaf be configured to allow the owner to view the maximum amp draw from the EVSE, the current amperage the Leaf is pulling, and allow me to manually tell the Leaf to pull less amperage.

Chargers (the actual one in the car) are software driven and can have multiple charge profiles, it is easy to make several profiles and/or remote input a charge value. This can be done in the car or remotely via a smartphone, etc. This capability is there now and does not rely on every EVSE to do this or to be compatible. The car charger (not EVSE) is the cleanest and most efficient way to do this. The Leaf is doing this now at many levels.

 

[DarkStar]

The Leaf is doing this now at many levels.

Only two, 100% and 80% total charge. You can't tell the Leaf to only draw 8 amps vs. 16 amps without a different EVSE currently.

 

[tps]

I would also want a low cost ($1k) charger to use that port at home, using 240V at about 60A or 14.4kw.. and adjustable so I can dial it down to 1kw if desired.

How often would you use 14.4kW at home? For me, I'm guessing that the existing 3.3kW onboard charger is mostly overkill for my home charging needs, as it would get the LEAFs 24 kWh battery from empty to full overnight, and my normal daily routine will probably use less than half of the total capacity. For destination charging, yes, as much as possible. I can easily see how a 7.2kW onboard charger would be useful. Not sure the current NEC allows more than 30A for L2 EVSE, but if they allow 60A even 14.4 kW on-board might be useful for destination charging...

 

[EVDRIVER]

The Leaf is doing this now at many levels.

Only two, 100% and 80% total charge. You can't tell the Leaf to only draw 8 amps vs. 16 amps without a different EVSE currently.

No, but the hardware should be fully controllable via the software to vary charge rates, every modern EV charger like this can do this easily. My Brusa could be programmed to do almost any charge event. This is a very basic feature.

 

[Herm]

I would also want a low cost ($1k) charger to use that port at home, using 240V at about 60A or 14.4kw.. and adjustable so I can dial it down to 1kw if desired.

How often would you use 14.4kW at home? For me, I'm guessing that the existing 3.3kW onboard charger is mostly overkill for my home charging needs..

Not very often, except if a friend or member of the local LEAF club visits from across town and wants to charge their LEAF.. another advantage is the larger charger would be outside of the car and thus not increase its weight. Its not a deal killer but would be a nice use for that L3 port, bypassing the internal 3.3kw charger.

 

[Coffee_Slurry]

The 6.6kW charger would be most useful AWAY from home, not in the garage.

The Garage is where I have the most time available to charge. It's the opportunistic quick-stop charging that would benefit the most.

 

[TimeHorse]

I still say my preferred usage pattern is 22:15 start charge with TOU; 03:15 get in car, go to gym, work, home (80 mi) and then idle the car until charge starts again at 22:15. That means 80% or more charge in 5 hours, which means 6.6kW charging in the house. So 6.6kW L2 is really important to me (at least worth $1000, as I told Nissan); I'd still get the ChaDeMo though, it's just not nearly as important to me here on the right coast, what with the slower infrastructure here.

 

[EVDRIVER]

I still say my preferred usage pattern is 22:15 start charge with TOU; 03:15 get in car, go to gym, work, home (80 mi) and then idle the car until charge starts again at 22:15. That means 80% or more charge in 5 hours, which means 6.6kW charging in the house. So 6.6kW L2 is really important to me (at least worth $1000, as I told Nissan); I'd still get the ChaDeMo though, it's just not nearly as important to me here on the right coast, what with the slower infrastructure here.

I know I will be saying "I told you so" at some point but many people that drive less than you and are positive they don't need 6.6kw charging will change their mind. There are more reasons than just long drives, but this will be moot when they change the charger. If I had 6.6 charging I would not get and L3 port, few will ever use it, they thing they will but they won't.

 

[DarkStar]

I still say my preferred usage pattern is 22:15 start charge with TOU; 03:15 get in car, go to gym, work, home (80 mi) and then idle the car until charge starts again at 22:15. That means 80% or more charge in 5 hours, which means 6.6kW charging in the house. So 6.6kW L2 is really important to me (at least worth $1000, as I told Nissan); I'd still get the ChaDeMo though, it's just not nearly as important to me here on the right coast, what with the slower infrastructure here.

If you could plug-in for free at the gym or at work, wouldn't that change your needs?

I have a 50 mile round-trip, but luckily have an employer that will allow me to plug in (then again, they have outlets everywhere by the parking area). On L1 charging, if I leave home with a full charge, when I plug in at work I'll be full again within 5 hours. Then when I get home, since I'll have L2 charging, I'll be full again within 2 hours.

Sure, I would love to have even faster charging down the road, but in the short-term, opportunity charging should be encouraged to help grow adoption of electric vehicles and eliminate some F.U.D.

 

[EVDRIVER]

I still say my preferred usage pattern is 22:15 start charge with TOU; 03:15 get in car, go to gym, work, home (80 mi) and then idle the car until charge starts again at 22:15. That means 80% or more charge in 5 hours, which means 6.6kW charging in the house. So 6.6kW L2 is really important to me (at least worth $1000, as I told Nissan); I'd still get the ChaDeMo though, it's just not nearly as important to me here on the right coast, what with the slower infrastructure here.

If you could plug-in for free at the gym or at work, wouldn't that change your needs?

I have a 50 mile round-trip, but luckily have an employer that will allow me to plug in (then again, they have outlets everywhere by the parking area). On L1 charging, if I leave home with a full charge, when I plug in at work I'll be full again within 5 hours. Then when I get home, since I'll have L2 charging, I'll be full again within 2 hours.

Sure, I would love to have even faster charging down the road, but in the short-term, opportunity charging should be encouraged to help grow adoption of electric vehicles and eliminate some F.U.D.

The entire point of a higher power charger is to use opportunity charging. An hour at 3.3 kw is only 3.3 kwh at best, doubling that is significant and allows many people much more functionality on their vehicle.
Just wait until businesses offer free charging with paid parking and people pay $10 for a couple hours and are getting 6.6 kwh rather than 13.2 kwh, that number can hake a huge difference. The standard size charger on the Leaf should be 7.2 kwh, that is a good sweet spot for a variety or reasons.

 

[TimeHorse]

The entire point of a higher power charger is to use opportunity charging. An hour at 3.3 kw is only 3.3 kwh at best, doubling that is significant and allows many people much more functionality on their vehicle.
Just wait until businesses offer free charging with paid parking and people pay $10 for a couple hours and are getting 6.6 kwh rather than 13.2 kwh, that number can hake a huge difference. The standard size charger on the Leaf should be 7.2 kwh, that is a good sweet spot for a variety or reasons.

+3.17

 

[garygid]

+3.14157265

 

[smkettner]

At any given business I would rather have twice the number of evse spots at 16a rather than fewer at 32a.
Getting a spot with some power would be better than nothing.

To put in 10 spots and a 400 amp panel might limit the rollout and they just put in two off an existing panel.
Where as if the commercial units were just 16a the business would be less burdened to install more.
The evse could be less money to buy and install and the cord less bulky also.

Actually I could see the businesses limiting amps down even further to reduce electric cost unless you are there for an extended period.
The business may not want to fill your battery completely for all day use when you are there just a few minutes.

This all assumes free electric that I hope lasts for an extended period (forever)

 

[TomT]

Driving LA to Seattle, perhaps 20 hours, but with 30-minute QCs roughly every hour, about 30 hours of "drive-and-rest". With the QC option, I hope to be able to make that trip. L2 charging would make the trip possibly, but ... VERY time consuming.

Not only would that definitely void the battery warranty, it would certainly decrease battery life.

Nissan recommends no more than two level 3 charges a day and I would be surprised if there is not software in the car to prevent you from doing this or to at least throttle your charging rate WAY down.

Tom

 

[garygid]

Recommendations and actually voiding the Warranty are two very different things.

As long as the battery has enough time to cool, and thus does not get too hot during driving or charging, an occasional six QCs per day should not cause any more "abuse" than as many L2 charges to 100% usable.

 

[TomT]

Recommendations and actually voiding the Warranty are two very different things.

As long as the battery has enough time to cool, and thus does not get too hot during driving or charging, an occasional six QCs per day should not cause any more "abuse" than as many L2 charges to 100% usable.

Well, as I said, the deciding factor will be the car software as Nissan has said that there are routines in it to prevent excessive L3 charging. They defined that as no more than two full L3 charges in a day. They also stated that the car has the ability to throttle the L3 charger significantly if necessary. This information I got from a Nissan Leaf engineer who happened to be at the third drive I attended. Someone came up and yanked him away after I had been talking to him for about half an hour <G>!

YMMV.

Tom