Which factors have the biggest impact on battery life?

[bigbearballs]

The 2013 and 2015 battery pack reversions have almost no noticeable improvement for Leaf users in the southern US.

Does this go for 2014 packs too?

 

[Turnover]

Currently I have 80% SOH @ 43,000 miles. I live in SW Washington and have had 383 QC's and always charge to 100% on L2. I L1 occasionally to balance out the battery packs. My variation today 15 mV is pretty typical. I almost always drive in ECO. I drive almost always daily.

In comparing my stats with others, I seem to be doing okay or better. I am wondering if the constant battery discharge/regen is helping with battery health or harming it.

 

[Evoforce]

The 2013 and 2015 battery pack reversions have almost no noticeable improvement for Leaf users in the southern US.

Does this go for 2014 packs too?

Any year 11-15 but we have no stats on the 16 yet. I suspect 16 will not be much better because they said the 15s are better heat tolerant for hot climates but are NOT. Since they refuse to offer thermal management, the 16s are not likely to hold up any better. They will probably cycle less but still lose relatively the same percentages in hot climates over calendar time.

 

[dhanson865]

The 2013 and 2015 battery pack reversions have almost no noticeable improvement for Leaf users in the southern US.

Does this go for 2014 packs too?

2014 packs are either 2013 or 2015 chemistry. The most likely possibility for the 24 kWh packs is

2011 and 2012 are one set
2013 and 2014 are another set
2015 and 2016 are another set
30 kWh packs are another set

end result it doesn't matter much at all which year the pack is if you live in AZ, TX, southern FL, southern CA, NM, etcetera.

There might be a slight improvement for people living in northern climates like Washington State, Minnesota, Canada, northern UK, etcetera. But since Nissan isn't sharing detailed data the improvement is likely offset by losses in the southern climates enough to keep them from bragging about it.

 

[dhanson865]

Currently I have 80% SOH @ 43,000 miles. I live in SW Washington and have had 383 QC's and always charge to 100% on L2. I L1 occasionally to balance out the battery packs. My variation today 15 mV is pretty typical. I almost always drive in ECO. I drive almost always daily.

In comparing my stats with others, I seem to be doing okay or better. I am wondering if the constant battery discharge/regen is helping with battery health or harming it.

In Washington state Chademo charging helps keep the battery controller in adjustment and you don't have the heat issue to worry about. Charge how ever often you want to with whatever method is convenient. When the car gets too old ship it to one of us that lives further south.

You live in the ideal environment and thus charging to 80% instead of 100% would extend the life of your pack, but on the other hand if that extra 10-15% charge matters to you then use it, you can get away with it.

 

[bigbearballs]

I've been enjoying seattle like weather in austin this past week, but it's going to hit 90 soon this coming up week. I'm envious of you guys that get the 70 degrees year round.

 

[Wiggy]

I'm in Phoenix. We bought a used 2015 S model in December. It has 11/14 build date in the door jam.

I have 8 bars of battery temp when I get in the car and throughout my drive. We currently show all 12 bars of useful life. GOM as high as 117 this last 2 weeks. We have almost 10k miles. I have been reading a lot in these forums. Leaf spy pro loaded on my phone, OBD II reader should arrive tonight.

It has been over 110 for 2 weeks. I drive with windows down, a/c off, speed at the legal limit (20 under surrounding traffic). I obviously am losing battery life, but I don't know how bad, yet....

 

[rosier9]

It has been over 110 for 2 weeks. I drive with windows down, a/c off,

I hope you're doing that for your enjoyment... The relatively tiny draw of the ac isn't going to do anything measurable against father time...

 

[Wiggy]

It has been over 110 for 2 weeks. I drive with windows down, a/c off,

I hope you're doing that for your enjoyment... The relatively tiny draw of the ac isn't going to do anything measurable against father time...

Obviously I'm worried about peak heat. But, no, I can't say that I enjoyed the drive home yesterday at 116F.

So, leaf spy Pro says 62.92 AHr, SOH 100%, 97.01 Hx, 3 QC, 424 L2/L1. Current battery temp 105.9F, peak 106.7F.

So what is the advice of the wonderful, smart, and kind folks of this forum? I've read don't run A/C at 9 temp bars, don't use aggressive B regent braking, don't lead foot, don't drive at excessive speed. I'm on my 2nd Prius and I've spent over 50,000 miles driving with hypermile skills (when it doesn't interfere w traffic). I'm an airplane mechanic, not a rocket scientist, so you can talk to me in plain language. My wife wants a car she can drive 75 mph and run the A/C. For the last 9000 miles, that's what she has done. Are we wrong to treat it like an ICE and just plug it in every night? Thanks in advance.

 

[GRA]

Obviously I'm worried about peak heat. But, no, I can't say that I enjoyed the drive home yesterday at 116F.

So, leaf spy Pro says 62.92 AHr, SOH 100%, 97.01 Hx, 3 QC, 424 L2/L1. Current battery temp 105.9F, peak 106.7F.

So what is the advice of the wonderful, smart, and kind folks of this forum? I've read don't run A/C at 9 temp bars, don't use aggressive B regent braking, don't lead foot, don't drive at excessive speed. I'm on my 2nd Prius and I've spent over 50,000 miles driving with hypermile skills (when it doesn't interfere w traffic). I'm an airplane mechanic, not a rocket scientist, so you can talk to me in plain language. My wife wants a car she can drive 75 mph and run the A/C. For the last 9000 miles, that's what she has done. Are we wrong to treat it like an ICE and just plug it in every night? Thanks in advance.

No, you're not wrong to treat the car that way; although its lifetime may well be far short of what you expect for that amount of money. Go ahead and use the A/C; it's ridiculous not to for that amount of cash. If the car doesn't meet your needs for how you want to drive (as opposed to you meeting the car's needs), then it's just the wrong car. As it is, you have an excellent chance in Phoenix of qualifying for a free replacement battery under the warranty; the only question is whether or not the car will still be usable for you as its mileage degrades before you get there. It's Nissan's fault for selling a car in areas with climates where the battery pack's design simply can't last for an acceptable period of time, so let them deal with the cost.

 

[LeafMuranoDriver]

It has been over 110 for 2 weeks. I drive with windows down, a/c off,

I hope you're doing that for your enjoyment... The relatively tiny draw of the ac isn't going to do anything measurable against father time...

Obviously I'm worried about peak heat. But, no, I can't say that I enjoyed the drive home yesterday at 116F.

So, leaf spy Pro says 62.92 AHr, SOH 100%, 97.01 Hx, 3 QC, 424 L2/L1. Current battery temp 105.9F, peak 106.7F.

So what is the advice of the wonderful, smart, and kind folks of this forum? I've read don't run A/C at 9 temp bars, don't use aggressive B regent braking, don't lead foot, don't drive at excessive speed. I'm on my 2nd Prius and I've spent over 50,000 miles driving with hypermile skills (when it doesn't interfere w traffic). I'm an airplane mechanic, not a rocket scientist, so you can talk to me in plain language. My wife wants a car she can drive 75 mph and run the A/C. For the last 9000 miles, that's what she has done. Are we wrong to treat it like an ICE and just plug it in every night? Thanks in advance.

You should definitely be enjoying the good A/C of the Leaf. Your stats are outstanding! They are better than mine and my area is not as hot as yours.

I think you've got it all down and doing everything right. Don't worry about the temp bars and not using the A/C.

Only other things I try to do is, park in the shade and charge when it's the coolest parts of the day.

 

[Evoforce]

I'm in Phoenix. We bought a used 2015 S model in December. It has 11/14 build date in the door jam.

I have 8 bars of battery temp when I get in the car and throughout my drive. We currently show all 12 bars of useful life. GOM as high as 117 this last 2 weeks. We have almost 10k miles. I have been reading a lot in these forums. Leaf spy pro loaded on my phone, OBD II reader should arrive tonight.

It has been over 110 for 2 weeks. I drive with windows down, a/c off, speed at the legal limit (20 under surrounding traffic). I obviously am losing battery life, but I don't know how bad, yet....

Uh... Definitely use the wonderful A/C these cars have and put it at full fan if necessary.

 

[arnis]

Driving with windows down at speeds above 40km/h (25mph) uses more energy than AC with reasonable settings.
At highway speeds anything is better than side-windows that are open.
Select normal climate settings like 20C/68F and press AUTO. If you want to go more economical, press FORCE RECIRCULATE.

Leaf's AC system in AUTO mode is calibrated to be super-efficient. Usually it results in weaker performance after
longer driving time, like 15+ minutes (compared to other vehicles) but that can be compensated with colder temp settings.

NEVER use high fan settings with recirculation mode OFF - total waste of electricity

 

[GetOffYourGas]

NEVER use high fan settings with recirculation mode OFF - total waste of electricity

If you get into a car that has been baking in the sun, you want to do this to clear out all the hot air. In this case, the car is presumably hotter than outside, and it's better to cool say 90F air than 110F air. In that case, I recommend opening all the windows and cranking the fan until the temps equalize.

Never say never

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

All of these factors have a direct impact on the life of a rechargeable battery:

1) Age
2) Number of recharges
3) Types of recharges (fast vice slow)
4) Ambient temperature of the environment in which the battery operates
5) ?


My question relates to the buying of a used Leaf and how much one should focus on the remaining life of the battery. If I find a used 2012 Leaf with 5K miles on it one could assume that it has been through a (relatively) few recharge cycles in it's life ... but what impact will the age of the battery (3+ years) have on it's remaining life? I ask because I just passed on a 2012 with 5K miles because, while it had very few miles it had a battery that is almost 4 years old. In this case could one correctly assume that one would get at least 8 bars up until 60K miles? The bottom line is that if I drive only 5K miles per year then I could assume that the car (and original battery) have about 11 years of life left ... before it hits 8 bars.

Please demystify for me ...


Thank you.

that depends on how you determine the lifecycle. are you measuring it by years of use or miles you can drive. if its the latter, then the biggest factor by far is efficiency.

Take a real example. two cars, both have sent a total of 10,000 kwh thru their battery pack. One has driven 47,000 miles and still has all its bars. the other has driven only 34,000 and is about to lose his first. Both live in the same area (about 20 miles apart) so what gives?

well, the one guy uses neutral a lot in his driving and has a much higher lifetime average. The other guy admits to driving fast most of the time because his commute is short (under 40 miles RT) and he has plenty of range to "burn"

so when you see a huge disparity in where people are, its almost always how they drive.

 

[arnis]

NEVER use high fan settings with recirculation mode OFF - total waste of electricity

If you get into a car that has been baking in the sun, you want to do this to clear out all the hot air. In this case, the car is presumably hotter than outside, and it's better to cool say 90F air than 110F air. In that case, I recommend opening all the windows and cranking the fan until the temps equalize.

Never say never

This is also waste. It is hundredfold more efficient to open two doors or windows BEFORE using AC at all.
Usually when 2 people get it in the vehicle hot air is evacuated.

 

[dhanson865]

NEVER use high fan settings with recirculation mode OFF - total waste of electricity

If you get into a car that has been baking in the sun, you want to do this to clear out all the hot air. In this case, the car is presumably hotter than outside, and it's better to cool say 90F air than 110F air. In that case, I recommend opening all the windows and cranking the fan until the temps equalize.

Never say never

This is also waste. It is hundredfold more efficient to open two doors or windows BEFORE using AC at all.
Usually when 2 people get it in the vehicle hot air is evacuated.

It may require less electricity to open a window or door but doing so lets in pollen. For many people that isn't a viable option. The fan power is worth it to pull air through the filter instead of letting unfiltered air in.

 

[BradFoxUS]

Late to the party, I know, but I have regularly had my leaf to 130F here in my area after just 3 quick charges. Even after sitting in covered parking for 3 days, the battery is at ambient of 90F or warmer.

My Leaf was purchased in January 2016 and it is a 2012 SL Model. I bought it with 38K miles, and with 10 capacity bars. Leaf Spy stats were 47Ahr and 78% SoH.

Here is is, 8 months later, and I'm at 56K miles, 9 capacity bars, and about to get a new pack under warranty. Leaf Spy is telling me I'm at 42.50Ahr, 64% SoH, and 43% Hx. I just wish it would hurry up and drop that 9th bar so I can have a new battery ordered before the Army moves us to Fort Carson in Colorado Springs. One of the downsides to living where I am now is there are no charging stations, and I have to heavily rely on DC fast charging.

PS! People should not really be worried with 30C/85F battery on mid-day if SOC
is "somewhere in between". 40C is not acceptable for storage (measured in days),
but is totally acceptable for operational temperature (measured in hours).

On a leaf 40C is not acceptable at all because once you hit it even if you somehow could put the car in a 0C chamber it will take 8 hours to get the temp back down to an acceptable level.

If I garage my car at 55F/13C and drive to work 15 miles and park in an open parking lot where the temp is 20F/-7C and let it sit for 8 hours my pack is still 45F or higher when I go to drive home.

worse is the summer case

If I drive home from work with a battery at 80F/27C and let it sit in a garage at 65F/18C overnight something like 15 hours the pack will cool maybe 5F/3C. Then I drive to work 15 miles and park in an open parking lot where the air temp is 89F/32C and let it sit over asphalt the pack will rise from the prior partial cooldown to ambient in about 4 to 6 hours.

At no time in the summer would I be able to shed heat from 40C to anything reasonable. If my pack got to 40C/104F I'd have to park it in my air conditioned garage for several days to get it back to a normal temp and even then I'd see larger than normal degradation not only that first day but probably over the next few weeks.

Hitting 40C would mean it would be at upper 30s C for the next few days and then lower 30s, and then upper 20s, then if it's cooled off like maybe fall it might dip into the lower 20s. All that time it spent above 20C it's degrading faster than anybody wants it to.

Getting a leaf pack to 40C ever would be cause for alarm to me, OK I just did a bunch of gooling the forum and found someone with leafspy data that has a pack temp above 40C.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=17459&start=230#p431320

2015 S with QC. Before pulling these stats I drove it on the interstate, QC'd for 15 minutes, then more interstate, then another 20 minute QC. Total drive was 85 miles. So the battery temp is quite hot. How high should I let it go before being concerned?

7/25/2014 Leafspy stats:
Location - Buford, GA
AHr = 64.38
SOH = 100% (very happy about this, but can it be true?)
Hx = 101.10%
odo = 6,298 miles
24 QCs & 149 L1/L2s
Temp F = 110.9 F avg (9.5)

110F/43C or so and man that'd concern me. There might be someone in Arizona, Texas, or Southern California that can beat that but then those are the people that ran through 4 bars in 20 months and got a free pack.

fastest to 4 bars lost

zhang000 San Jose, CA 59,996 miles 12 months VIN 001963
Scott Yarosh Phoenix, AZ 28190 miles 14 months VIN 03494
MH Phoenix, AZ unk miles, ~16 months unkown VIN
dsh Phoenix, AZ unk miles 19 months VIN 01069
gk1 Chandler, AZ 18850 miles 22.5 months VIN 05080
phxsmiley Chandler, AZ 28700 miles 23 months VIN 07837

You'll notice a close cluster in proximity with temp more important than time which is more important than miles.

 

[vin944]

If you do this 10-15 times in a row (once per day for 10-15 days) you will drop 3-4 Ahr.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzYPiKWN6D4OOUdjeHBWYS1PRU0/view