What happened to my Regen?

[TickTock]

...I got a new traction motor (was making some disturbing grumbling sounds) out of the visit, too, so I really came away with a practically brand new Leaf.

Wow :shock:
That is impressive.
Not been many reports of motor failure.
How involved was it in the dealer getting Nissan approval for the replacement?
Did they do extensive testing, or authorize based only on noise?
Would be nice to know what was wrong with it, but it likely got shipped back to Nissan for evaluation.

You did a great job on data collection on the first battery.
Maybe you could post final complete graph of its data?
Looking forward to your real world testing of the new 2015 battery chemistry in a hot environement.
Can't wait to see the one year data.

Yeah. Earnhardt Nissan off Superstition Blvd was great. They said they had never heard of one of these failing before so they were surprised. I had been worrying over that noise for a long time as it steadily got louder and louder hoping that it would fully break before the warranty expired because I expected resistance to replacing something so pricey just on a noise. However, the technician was very concerned and didn't want to return it to me just to leave me stranded later. They did have to check the rules because between that and the battery it was a pretty large bill. After getting confirmation that the limit requiring Nissan approval was per line-item and not total bill they made it happen. The first motor replacement arrived damaged so they had to order a second (I learned to really appreciate the technician's attention to detail) so I ended up driving the loaner for quite some time. The loaner was a new Altima with 8 miles on it (right off the truck) so the entire experience was wonderful and I love my new, quiet, full range vehicle. I also got a pic of the new motor with the driveshafts attached ready to install:

 

[TickTock]

Here's the final graph for this battery from when I started recording in October'2011 to replacement. Raw data and other graphs here (including the new battery as I gather data). I was eligible for replacement (lost 4th bar) on 6/27/2014.

 

[RegGuheert]

I also got a pic of the new motor with the driveshafts attached ready to install:

Oooo! Sparkly!

 

[DaveEV]

Here's the final graph for this battery from when I started recording in October'2011 to replacement. Raw data and other graphs

Great data - how is the 0-100 wall measured?

 

[TickTock]

Here's the final graph for this battery from when I started recording in October'2011 to replacement. Raw data and other graphs

Great data - how is the 0-100 wall measured?

I installed an EKM meter on the charging circuit at my house.

 

[TimLee]

... traction motor (was making some disturbing grumbling sounds) ...

Boy those sounds are troubling.
Kind like something is dragging on acceleration and deceleration at low rpm.

You heard it in normal operation, and then dealer put LEAF on lift and increased decreased RPM to test?

Might be a good thing for everyone to have done, just in case. I don't think it is routine for dealer to put it on lift and do that, although it doesn't take much time.

 

[TickTock]

... traction motor (was making some disturbing grumbling sounds) ...

Boy those sounds are troubling.
Kind like something is dragging on acceleration and deceleration at low rpm.

You heard it in normal operation, and then dealer put LEAF on lift and increased decreased RPM to test?

Might be a good thing for everyone to have done, just in case. I don't think it is routine for dealer to put it on lift and do that, although it doesn't take much time.

I was a lot louder when actually on the road experiencing high torque at low speed. The mechanic heard it clearly when he did the test drive and then put it on the lift to track it down. I had been thinking it was just a CV joint since I had one fail on another car and it sounded very similar (up until the failure.) When it was tracked down to the motor, I was *VERY* glad they fixed it under warranty. I can replace a drive shaft easily (and inexpensively) myself but a traction motor is an order of magnitude more expensive.

I don't think this is a common problem. The dealership picked up on it immediately and said they've never heard of such a failure before ("the drivetrain [on the Leaf] is pretty much bullet-proof") so I don't think everyone needs to rush out to their dealer to have this checked. If you have it, you will hear it clearly inside the cabin.

 

[DaveEV]

I installed an EKM meter on the charging circuit at my house.

Cool - I'd like to get one of those meters - did you actually hit turtle for each measurement?

 

[zowland]

Oh hell, me too! Does P3227 really do anything but help Nissan avoid warranty claims? I certainly have my suspicions.

+1 Certainly disheartening that Nissan has been completely mum about this change, and why they felt it was necessary. The upgrade will also certainly increase the sales of friction brake pads. Tesla changed the regen algorithm on my S as well--very limited regen when the battery is cold; fortunately it returns to normal once the battery warms up.

 

[mwalsh]

I can still get 3 bubbles at lower speeds (below 45mph) on a warmer day, but anything faster than that, or on a colder day, or with a high state of charge...furgettaboutit!

For anything more that 3 bubbles, I have to actually hit the brakes.

Update, now that I've spent some time with the car. For me to get 3 bubbles it appears the following conditions need to exist:

1) Outside temp needs to be a minimum of 61 degrees. This probably corresponds with a pack temperature, but I don't cruise around using LEAFSpy, so I couldn't tell you what that is.

2) Speed needs to be no more than 45mph.

3) Battery must be depleted to at least 8 bars.

Variations in 1 and 2 see a corresponding change in behavior. Example: at 69 degrees outside temp this morning I was able to get 3 bubbles at 55mph. When we had 90 degree weather late last week I actually saw 4 bubbles briefly at between 40 and 50mph.

 

[walterbays]

For me to get 3 bubbles it appears the following conditions need to exist:....

I see about the same thing. And I only get 5 bubbles when I'm flirting with LBW. Unfortunately in the hilly area where I live this means that my miles/kWh driving efficiency is much less than when the car was new (pre battery degradation and pre Nissan firmware update). This reduced efficiency exacerbates the range loss from battery degradation, which requires charging to 100% rather than 80%, which further restricts regen, which further reduces efficiency, which further reduces range. Sigh :-(

 

[mwalsh]

Update, now that I've spent some time with the car. For me to get 3 bubbles it appears the following conditions need to exist:

1) Outside temp needs to be a minimum of 61 degrees. This probably corresponds with a pack temperature, but I don't cruise around using LEAFSpy, so I couldn't tell you what that is.

2) Speed needs to be no more than 45mph.

3) Battery must be depleted to at least 8 bars.

Variations in 1 and 2 see a corresponding change in behavior. Example: at 69 degrees outside temp this morning I was able to get 3 bubbles at 55mph. When we had 90 degree weather late last week I actually saw 4 bubbles briefly at between 40 and 50mph.

More data points - tonight I saw 3 bubbles at ~45mph as soon as outside temps changed from 61 degrees to 62 degrees. So that hypothesis is pretty much confirmed. Again, I'm pretty sure that will correlate to a specific pack temp, but I still have no clue what that would be. I can't imagine Nissan boffins programming to ambient temps. However, I also saw 4 bubbles tonight at ~70mph once SOC was down at around 15%, at the same ambient temps. So, therefore, I can categorically say that:

A) Lower temps (under 62 degrees ambient) and high SOC = regeneration SEVERELY limited on a LEAF with a degraded battery pack and P3227 programming.
B) Moderate temps (above 62 degrees ambient) and a moderately high SOC = higher regeneration at lower speeds (~45mph) on the same vehicle.
C) High temps (not measured, but assume between 80-90 degrees) and a moderately high SOC = higher regeneration at higher speeds (~70mph) OTSV.
D) Lower temps (62 degrees ambient) and a low SOC = higher regeneration at higher speeds (~70mph) OTSV.

As always, YMMV.

 

[basher]

I have an arbitration hearing coming up with BBB Autoline to ask Nissan to remedy this regen reduction problem.

In an earlier post on this thread, FairwoodRed said "I took my leaf to my dealer to have them look at lack of regen. The dealer wrote that it was a result of the LBC programming update." I have not been able to make contact with FairwoodRed via PM.

Does anyone have anything IN WRITING from Nissan or one of their dealers stating that the reduced regen is a result of the P3227 LBC programming update? Or does anyone know how to get ahold of FairwoodRed? If so, please PM me ASAP.