Update on Nissan LEAF Battery Replacement

[DaveinOlyWA]

Hi all:

I’m happy to be back to provide a long-awaited update on the Nissan LEAF battery replacement plan...

Brian; thank you for announcing this program! the cost is very agreeable (and familiar) and I am sure this will be well received. Now, I know that there are still loose ends to be tied up but what is the projected date this will become available?

And again, thank you for making the LEAF a greater personal statement for Nissan as a whole. Some might not understand the requirement to return their existing pack but to me it is a personal thank you from Nissan for our leap of faith in the LEAF and Nissan's continuing commitment to EV technology!

 

[TimLee]

Releasing this information and setting a more than fair price on the battery
Helps me to recommend the leaf again.

Before this information I would have warned everyone about the degrading and discouraged them from buying a Leaf.

I think this is the key positive in Nissan's late but very intelligent decision to sell replacement battery at a reasonable price.
I bought the LEAF 37 months ago knowing there were uncertainties.
But Nissan's stated expectations on capacity degradation made it appear that a ten year total cost of ownership at 7,000 miles per year at the government subsidized $24,000 price would be close to total cost of ownersip of my 2009 Altima SL with 4 cylinder engine (cash for clunkers purchase on last day from a great GA dealer). And potentially could be 20% to 30% better.

Prior to offering price I really felt like I had been sold a "pig in a poke".
Many uninformed buyers come to MNL every week considering purchasing new or used LEAFs.
With the defective 2011 to 2014 batteries it was impossible to know the real cost of purchasing a LEAF.
Which I stated more than 18 months back was a disaster for the LEAF program.
So I and many others shared what we knew and recommended against it.

At least now there is something you can evaluate.
Nissan's remaining significant problem and main shortcoming is that the attempt to resolve the 2011 to 2014 battery defect with a warranty will help less than 10% of people. They need to seriously consider a pro-rated capacity warranty that provides some corrective action for 80% of those impacted.
Maybe they will consider that in the class action mediation.

I didn't expect their smart choice of selling battery at a reasonable price.
So you never know.

Without that operating my 2011 LEAF will mean the replacement battery costs roughly what the savings were for not buying gas. And total cost of ownership will be 5% to 10% higher than the 2009 Altima and that with significant government subsidy.
So the story is still a bit of a "pig in a poke".
But at least now I feel better about it. Might be able now to go to third annual plug in America day. Before I don't think I had the heart or enthusiasm for it.

 

[gbarry42]

there has much said on the EV experience so no need to rehash that there.

Oh, heck, why not? <- (EV smile)

Cost of lease or purchase: Significant
Maintenance: Vanishing
Monthly payments: Blah
Taxes: Blah blah
License: Blah blah
Insurance: Blah blah
Electricity: Blah blah
Public charging: Blah blah blah

Driving an E.V.: Priceless

 

[TomT]

I never anticipated buying a replacement pack and I still do not. Spending 6 grand to put a new battery with the same original capacity in an old, outdated car is just is not my style. I'm glad it is available and will be of advantage to some, but it is not likely for me...

I don't believe that telling them they can get a new battery for "only 6 grand" is going to change that many minds in that regard...

It would me, assuming my normal income circumstances.

 

[Nubo]

Large corporations don't exactly turn on a dime. So, bravo Nissan for the willingness to take your early adopters' messages to heart. And thanks to the LAB for their patience and persistence.

 

[evnow]

There may be more collective wisdom in the market than we give credit for why the LEAF hasn't taken off. The cost of one battery replacement plus electricity would buy gas for five years give or take.

This is not a consideration in large areas of the country. It is the lack of enough range in winter that is the problem in the north.

 

[philipscoggins]

Bravo Nissan!

After hitting 43,000 miles on my 2012 LEAF yeaterday & my daily 100% charge down to 230gid (on a good day) I will definitely buy a replacement pack for my LEAF some day, but hopefully I'll pay it off first

And the price is what I would consider reasonable.

 

[Volusiano]

I think all this elated commotion over the released price of the battery is masking the real issue at heart here. The real issue at heart is the longevity of the Nissan battery pack.

Even with this new price announcement, nobody is going to rush out and buy a new pack right away. Most people are going to try to make do with their reduced range for now, or try to accelerate it so that they'll qualify for the battery warranty. Or wait until past the warranty period AND until they can't live with the reduced range anymore before they look into buying a new battery replacement as a last resort. That's going to be at least 5-6 years down the road or longer. Who knows what the pricing of the battery will be by then? Most likely lower than $5,500. So realistically speaking, the $5,500 price announcement is mostly a PR gimmick for Nissan today anyway and they'll probably won't have to put the money where their mouth is until several years out.

But the issue at heart is whether the new Lizard battery will live up to the original expectation set by Nissan or not? 80% capacity by 80K miles and 70% capacity by 100K miles in any weather (if I remember correctly). It seems like this standard has been lowered by Nissan to 70% in 60K miles or 5 years, whichever is earlier, per the new warranty. And now nobody is complaining but instead seem to be accepting this new lower standard.

If I were a new buyer looking into buying a brand new Nissan LEAF, and Nissan is telling me that I will probably need to pay them another $7K (after installation and taxes) by the end of 5 years to replace the battery of the LEAF because that's all its warranty is good for, my answer would be a resounding "no thank you very much, I'll shop elsewhere", rather than "thank you very much, Nissan, I'm elated to be paying you another $7K at the end of 5 years for a new battery, and repeat that every 5 years or 60K miles".

 

[dhanson865]

I never anticipated buying a replacement pack and I still do not. Spending 6 grand to put a new battery with the same original capacity in an old, outdated car is just is not my style. I'm glad it is available and will be of advantage to some, but it is not likely for me...

I don't believe that telling them they can get a new battery for "only 6 grand" is going to change that many minds in that regard...

It would me, assuming my normal income circumstances.

I never anticipated buying a replacement pack for my Prius and I still do not. But I can assure you from the late 90s on until today you sill get people naysaying the Prius because it has a battery that might have to be replaced. Along the way replacement batteries have been piling up in the junk yards and refurbished by various companies. As the supply of spare battery packs exceeded demand the price dropped. Anyone watching realized the batteries fail less often than cars get totaled by insurance companies (including batteries damaged by the crash). Just knowing there is a ample supply of replacement parts makes the 2nd gen Prius (2004-2009) attractive to a lot of people.

Nissan not offering a replacement pack made me worry and probably kept me in the I have a Prius but want a Leaf camp longer than if there was a clear replacement pack strategy all along. I'm sure there were others watching and waiting. We all want to see the Leaf take off and become cheaper to own/operate than a Prius.

It's highly likely that I'll not buy a replacement pack in the first few years of using a used Leaf but I'm more willing to make that leap now knowing I can buy a pack if needed and my much higher cost of buying the used car in the first place won't be wasted.

EVs are still the minority, heck even hybrids are still in the minority. It will change lots of minds, simply because there are way way more minds to change still. If only 1% of the majority changes their thinking because a pack is now available for a known price that is still a large number of people.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

I look at the real options and some things I have determined.

Even if it cost the same to drive EV as gas, I would still pick EV and all its "shortcomings" (pun intended) because supporting emerging technology is the engine that drives improvement.

I will not make the common mistake of underestimating other options including other EVs or gasoline based transportation.

I will not make the mistake of trying to convince others, especially those from areas I do not currently live in because each person's circumstance is different.

I will not try to understand one's acceptable level of compromise such as public charging acceptance or at what speed they drive.

 

[BBrockman]

Hi all:

I’m happy to be back to provide a long-awaited update on the Nissan LEAF battery replacement plan...

Brian; thank you for announcing this program! the cost is very agreeable (and familiar) and I am sure this will be well received. Now, I know that there are still loose ends to be tied up but what is the projected date this will become available?

And again, thank you for making the LEAF a greater personal statement for Nissan as a whole. Some might not understand the requirement to return their existing pack but to me it is a personal thank you from Nissan for our leap of faith in the LEAF and Nissan's continuing commitment to EV technology!

Hey Dave: We've communicated the program to all LEAF dealers, and it is effective immediately. The only part that is delayed is the NMAC financing component. We have to iron out the last details on that, and we expect more details to be available on that later this calendar year.

 

[uwskier20]

While I'm generally happy with the announcement I do think that to make things square early adopters should have gotten a special discounted 1-time replacement pricing on the pack as the battery didn't perform as promised by Nissan by a large margin for the majority of the people.

+1

Probably my biggest gripe, though some might argue it trivial, I don't think it is. Nissan would likely buy back a lot of goodwill by doing something like this for the vanguard owners.

 

[phxsmiley]

This is great news for us, good for the brand, good for EVs in general. It should also help with sales here in AZ that the Lizard Battery will be available in 2015 models that can take the heat here. I'm still giving ad-hoc demonstrations once in a while of my 2011 Leaf. The Phoenix area has a pretty good charging infrastructure, but everybody here (that has an interest in the Leaf) knows of the Leaf battery issues and brings it up, with something like "isn't there a problem with the battery....".

One aspect I would like to ask about: is there any news on the 'voucher' that was promised to those who had a 4BL, but had the battery replaced with a non-Lizard battery? I believe the plan was that it would be given with an expiration date.

 

[mwalsh]

One aspect I would like to ask about: is there any news on the 'voucher' that was promised to those who had a 4BL, but had the battery replaced with a non-Lizard battery? I believe the plan was that it would be given with an expiration date.

Chelsea mentioned that this was still a go, eventually.

 

[thankyouOB]

There may be more collective wisdom in the market than we give credit for why the LEAF hasn't taken off. The cost of one battery replacement plus electricity would buy gas for five years give or take. When you consider that fuel is only one component in TCO in the long run the cost of a LEAF compared to a modest gas car is a rounding error. If you live in a state where there are extra subsidies and the climate is friendlier to the battery the story is a little better but for someone like me living in a state with neither it's basically a car that burns lithium instead of gas.

In Utah we have a horrible air pollution problem. According to the Utah Division of Air Quality 60% of the pollution in this area is from cars and trucks. My LEAF recharged with solar power does not contribute to that problem. That is reason enough for me to drive electric.

The cost of battery replacement is one consideration, however it is far from the only consideration.

you the man, KJD.
if the rest of the equation is even, why would anyone choose to pollute?
it is something i will never choose to understand.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Hi all:

I’m happy to be back to provide a long-awaited update on the Nissan LEAF battery replacement plan...

Brian; thank you for announcing this program! the cost is very agreeable (and familiar) and I am sure this will be well received. Now, I know that there are still loose ends to be tied up but what is the projected date this will become available?

And again, thank you for making the LEAF a greater personal statement for Nissan as a whole. Some might not understand the requirement to return their existing pack but to me it is a personal thank you from Nissan for our leap of faith in the LEAF and Nissan's continuing commitment to EV technology!

Hey Dave: We've communicated the program to all LEAF dealers, and it is effective immediately. The only part that is delayed is the NMAC financing component. We have to iron out the last details on that, and we expect more details to be available on that later this calendar year.

WOW!! now that is news! So anyone who has paid off their LEAF can schedule a battery replacement today?

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

There may be more collective wisdom in the market than we give credit for why the LEAF hasn't taken off. The cost of one battery replacement plus electricity would buy gas for five years give or take. When you consider that fuel is only one component in TCO in the long run the cost of a LEAF compared to a modest gas car is a rounding error. If you live in a state where there are extra subsidies and the climate is friendlier to the battery the story is a little better but for someone like me living in a state with neither it's basically a car that burns lithium instead of gas.

In Utah we have a horrible air pollution problem. According to the Utah Division of Air Quality 60% of the pollution in this area is from cars and trucks. My LEAF recharged with solar power does not contribute to that problem. That is reason enough for me to drive electric.

The cost of battery replacement is one consideration, however it is far from the only consideration.

you the man, KJD.
if the rest of the equation is even, why would anyone choose to pollute?
it is something i will never choose to understand.

+++++++++++++1!!

I hesitate to ask people who start talking about ROI if they would feed their children cheaper food over natural healthier options because it would "save them money" but that gets a bit too personal, but that does not stop me from thinking it!

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

Mr Brockman, since this thread still seems to have your ear can you help clear up the following:
If one opted out of the class action settlement does that only void their capacity warranty on their current LEAF or is that person not eligible for battery capacity warranties on LEAFs they lease or buy in the future as well? Is there an option to opt back in or am I barred for life?

 

[tvo7]

So where is the savings?

Compared to what?

There may be more collective wisdom in the market than we give credit for why the LEAF hasn't taken off. The cost of one battery replacement plus electricity would buy gas for five years give or take. When you consider that fuel is only one component in TCO in the long run the cost of a LEAF compared to a modest gas car is a rounding error. If you live in a state where there are extra subsidies and the climate is friendlier to the battery the story is a little better but for someone like me living in a state with neither it's basically a car that burns lithium instead of gas.

Sorry for now being more clear but he got the point. Instead of burning gas, I am now burning batteries. Lets say I bought a VW diesel, have I saved money compared to that diesel? Previous poster said in year 4, I get a free battery. But from what Nissan told me, it will be any battery as long as it has more than 9 bars. So I would drop down to 8 bars, get a new battery pack and it is at 9 bars?

 

[TimLee]

... Sorry I didn't have my smoke signals ready before posting.

Brian,
Really do appreciate your sense of humor in what has to be a challenging job

For those that failed to understand the humor, see JPWhite post in the previous thread.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=17039&start=130#p374327" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;