Trailer batteries or gensets for Leafs?

[VitaminJ]

I know that TonyWilliams is not reading my posts so someone else should ask him what exhaust emissions regulations US National Parks have (because there are none). It's true they need to have mufflers that catch sparks, but can you name a generator that doesn't? And lastly noise is subjective and according to the NPS they will not pull out a decibel meter unless there's an event going on, they will ask you to turn off your generator if it's causing a disturbance no matter how many decibels it is or isn't making.

Also someone should point out to him that although the Nissan Leaf looks like a small car, it is actually almost 3,400lbs. For comparison a Nissan Versa is 2,400lbs and a Mazda2 is 2,300lbs. A class II hitch is a good match for the Leaf and can support up to 350lbs tongue weight, plenty for his overpriced Honda generator, or enough for my generator and 100lbs of other stuff (and $3000 in your pocket!) and all well within the Leaf's 4,200lbs GVWR.

And although most Californians see themselves as the center of the universe, it should be pointed out to him that CARB rules don't affect the other 49 states...and yes the generator I linked to has a CARB compliant version for only $100 extra.

 

[IssacZachary]

Tony, the only issue with 2 brief-case generators is while they both put out 120v, you can't easily hook them in series for 240v, you can easily parallel them for double the amps @ 120v(~32a) but modern Leafs max out at 27.5a @ 120v and even that is half the power of getting a good 30a 240v generator. Note while I haven't done it myself I believe there are several threads with people talking about using run of the mill generators(not fancy sign wave ones) to power an EVSE. It's what I'm planning on doing with my 30a 240v Costco(Champion) generator(~$600) which works on gas or propane, but haven't tried it yet.
I'm not really planning on carrying mine around, it's more to power the house during extended power outages and charge my Leaf during those times(probably not both at the same time or if charging for sure not at the full rate my car can take).

Let us know how it charges on that generator. There seems to be plenty of people that have proven the Leaf will charge from a pure sine wave generator but there's not much on the web about other generators.

If I can get a used 240V Honda or Yamaha quiet pure sine wave inverter generator I'll do that. But if not I'd try a regular generator with perhaps a muffler.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Let us know how it charges on that generator. There seems to be plenty of people that have proven the Leaf will charge from a pure sine wave generator but there's not much on the web about other generators.

If I can get a used 240V Honda or Yamaha quiet pure sine wave inverter generator I'll do that. But if not I'd try a regular generator with perhaps a muffler.

I couldn't agree more. For somebody who is trying to save a few dollars, go to Craigslist, eBay etc. to find a good used inverter style charger that is known to work with the LEAF, as opposed to potentially spending money on something that may be cheaper, but doesn't physically work.

Both Yamaha and Honda (that is listed) build these kind of units, and I'm sure there are others. Consider that this is an investment that you may keep for years. It may break down and need repairs or maintenance. Do you want to find generator parts for a Chinese built low-cost unit, or for a Honda or Yamaha at hundreds of dealers nationwide?

Do you want to be turned away from a campground because your generator exceeds the decibel limit? Do you want to be stopped at a public lands park because your generator does not have a spark arrester? Do you want a generator that pollutes more? Do you want to be able to use the generator at your home, or with computers? Do you want the generator to be light enough and convenient enough to be picked up? Do you want a unit that is quiet? Smooth? Easy to start?

The bottom line is no matter which generator you purchase, you need to verify that it works with your car, which means that you also need to verify that your money is refundable.

I can tell you that with my nearly 200,000 miles of driving with all electric power, I have never once needed a generator... ever. But I have certainly wanted more range and faster charging!

 

[jjeff]

A few links to other "generator" talk and one even talking about a pusher trailer.
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=19859&hilit=using+generator+to+charge+leaf
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=15111&hilit=using+generator+to+charge+leaf
This one has some interesting posts by iEngineer's Phil where he talks about using 2 Honda 2000w generators in series to get 240v http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=4047
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=12990&hilit=using+generator+to+charge+leaf
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=10513&hilit=using+generator+to+charge+leaf
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=8257&hilit=using+generator+to+charge+leaf

 

[jlsoaz]

[...] Am I to believe that you are considered operating the generator while driving? How?

Yes, my assumption was it could and would be operated while driving. Maybe I am just mis-understanding how gen-sets for BEVs typically work. My original conceptions of this were shaped by the ACP unit, and since then I haven't read more than a few ideas. I admit I never really checked the ACP unit, but did it not operate while in motion?

http://www.tzev.com/2001_rxt-g_.html

Note, as can be seen from the title of the thread and the first post in the thread, at this point in time it would make sense to me to focus at least some of the discussion, if not most of it, on battery trailers not just genset trailers. Here is the main technology I have in mind at this point.... a link that is just an update on the link from the original post (the accompany appears to have changed since I first ran across them a few years ago).
http://bvb-innovate.com/mobilebattery/?lang=en

 

[IssacZachary]

[...] Am I to believe that you are considered operating the generator while driving? How?

Yes, my assumption was it could and would be operated while driving. Maybe I am just mis-understanding how gen-sets for BEVs typically work. My original conceptions of this were shaped by the ACP unit, and since then I haven't read more than a few ideas. I admit I never really checked the ACP unit, but did it not operate while in motion?

http://www.tzev.com/2001_rxt-g_.html

Note, as can be seen from the title of the thread and the first post in the thread, at this point in time it would make sense to me to focus at least some of the discussion, if not most of it, on battery trailers not just genset trailers. Here is the main technology I have in mind at this point.... a link that is just an update on the link from the original post (the accompany appears to have changed since I first ran across them a few years ago).
http://bvb-innovate.com/mobilebattery/?lang=en

I'd love to do a battery trailer!
I'm just a bit scared. A generator is lighter as well as plug and play. A battery trailer requires:

1. A large battery of the same voltage as the Leaf. If you want another 24kW battery with a safer battery technology like LiFePO4 you're looking at $10,000 in the batteries alone?! A wrecked Leaf battery for $2,000 is probably what I'd like.
2. To connect to the Leaf you'd have to do one of two methods. One is to wire a second Leaf battery into some sort of switching module and use either one or the other battery. That means pulling over, shutting off and switching to the other battery.
3. The connections have to be well done unless you want a fire hazard! Even then, this isn't the safest thing. Would you feel safe running a fuel hose from a trailer with a large gasoline tank on it to your ICE car? Things need to be water tight, well insulated, fuse, contactor and logically protected.

One thing that would appeal to me is if the battery trailer had its own charger. Then I could use it first, get to the next town and leave it at a charging station, do my errands, and come back and get it and go home.

 

[TonyWilliams]

[...] Am I to believe that you are considered operating the generator while driving? How?

Yes, my assumption was it could and would be operated while driving. Maybe I am just mis-understanding how gen-sets for BEVs typically work.... battery trailers not just genset trailers. Here is the main technology I have in mind at this point.... a link that is just an update on the link from the original post (the accompany appears to have changed since I first ran across them a few years ago).
http://bvb-innovate.com/mobilebattery/?lang=en

As to the AC Propulsion trailer generator unit, it was built by professional engineers for a HUGE auto manufacturer almost 20 years ago. Yes, it worked while driving, and is the basic design concept used by BMW in the i3 (AC Propulsion worked with BMW on the MiniE, as well as grid storage projects). The trailer was built specifically for the 1996-2003 Toyota RAV4 EV. There are none available to buy. It used a very expensive aircraft APU generator.

So, any trailer generator is going to be specific to a certain car. While there are a handful of ways to produce the power, there only three logical ways to get the power to the car:

1) DC coupled - this is how the BMW i3 REx is done. Vehicle specific modifications required, with some type of control to not damage the battery. That means whiz bang CANbus King Fu, plus monkeying with deadly high voltage DC.

2) AC powered - power to the onboard vehicle charger. This can be used when stationary, easily. It would take some more whiz bang CANbus King Fu to make this work while the vehicle is in READY and moving. Good luck with the latter. You could also use an aftermarket onboard charger (Brusa, etc) and power this with the generator while driving. That onboard charger could be on a trailer, rear mounted receiver rack, or in the vehicle.

3) AC powered driven wheels as a "pusher" - This pusher configuration could be a trailer, or a mounted motor powering one or two vehicle drive wheels. The trailer is easy, however using a motor on a car will be lots of work. Plus, you are carrying this motor for all the time that the car is underway, even if no additional range is required for a majority of that time.

For the simplest system, obviously the "park-n-charge" method with a generator is something you can do as fast as you can acquire a generator, a method to carry the generator, and a charge cable suitable for the car and generator. Super easy.

Next on the simple list is a pusher trailer, with the only vehicle modification being a 2" trailer receiver ("hitch"). Some simple mechanical method to drive the wheels is simple, but fraught with potential safety implications.

Again, my favorite is a pusher trailer with electric motors driving the trailer wheel(s), and then a commercially available generator powering it. It can push you down the road and recharge the car (or power anything else) when you get there.

Using a trailer with a spare LEAF battery is a low cost and reasonably easy, except the there are (again) bigly issues. How would you plan to safely CONNECT the DC power if the two batteries were at different voltages?Nothing that whiz bang CANbus King Fu can't mitigate, but this isn't for kids.

 

[baustin]

[...] Am I to believe that you are considered operating the generator while driving? How?

Yes, my assumption was it could and would be operated while driving. Maybe I am just mis-understanding how gen-sets for BEVs typically work. My original conceptions of this were shaped by the ACP unit, and since then I haven't read more than a few ideas. I admit I never really checked the ACP unit, but did it not operate while in motion?

http://www.tzev.com/2001_rxt-g_.html

Note, as can be seen from the title of the thread and the first post in the thread, at this point in time it would make sense to me to focus at least some of the discussion, if not most of it, on battery trailers not just genset trailers. Here is the main technology I have in mind at this point.... a link that is just an update on the link from the original post (the accompany appears to have changed since I first ran across them a few years ago).
http://bvb-innovate.com/mobilebattery/?lang=en

I'd love to do a battery trailer!
I'm just a bit scared. A generator is lighter as well as plug and play. A battery trailer requires:

1. A large battery of the same voltage as the Leaf. If you want another 24kW battery with a safer battery technology like LiFePO4 you're looking at $10,000 in the batteries alone?! A wrecked Leaf battery for $2,000 is probably what I'd like.
2. To connect to the Leaf you'd have to do one of two methods. One is to wire a second Leaf battery into some sort of switching module and use either one or the other battery. That means pulling over, shutting off and switching to the other battery.
3. The connections have to be well done unless you want a fire hazard! Even then, this isn't the safest thing. Would you feel safe running a fuel hose from a trailer with a large gasoline tank on it to your ICE car? Things need to be water tight, well insulated, fuse, contactor and logically protected.

One thing that would appeal to me is if the battery trailer had its own charger. Then I could use it first, get to the next town and leave it at a charging station, do my errands, and come back and get it and go home.

The battery trailer referenced in the link (MobileBattery) is not meant to be tied into the Leafs electrical system. It is meant to be used as a portable power source to charge an EV using a Chademo connector. The trailer is advertised with a capacity of 20kwh to 200kwh with the ability to quick charge up to four vehicles at a time. It just needs an outlet to recharge it when depleted. It is essentially an alternative to a generator on a trailer. At this point in time, it seems too expensive to be a mass marketable item.

I like the idea of generator on a trailer that can be used when camping (or something) where there is no power available. I would want something fairly quiet that runs on propane. Trying to rig something to charge and drive is complex and dangerous, especially since the Leaf was not designed with that as an option. I like the concept of a pusher device, that will use the Leafs regen capability to recharge the battery while moving, but it is not exactly an efficient way to do so. I just don't see this taking off as a profitable venture, more of a DIY project for those that believe they need it.

 

[VitaminJ]

A salvaged Leaf battery fits in the rear hatch of the car without losing very much cargo space. Putting that small of a battery on a trailer is even worse than a generator.

 

[IssacZachary]

[...] Am I to believe that you are considered operating the generator while driving? How?

Yes, my assumption was it could and would be operated while driving. Maybe I am just mis-understanding how gen-sets for BEVs typically work.... battery trailers not just genset trailers. Here is the main technology I have in mind at this point.... a link that is just an update on the link from the original post (the accompany appears to have changed since I first ran across them a few years ago).
http://bvb-innovate.com/mobilebattery/?lang=en

As to the AC Propulsion trailer generator unit, it was built by professional engineers for a HUGE auto manufacturer almost 20 years ago. Yes, it worked while driving, and is the basic design concept used by BMW in the i3 (AC Propulsion worked with BMW on the MiniE, as well as grid storage projects). The trailer was built specifically for the 1996-2003 Toyota RAV4 EV. There are none available to buy. It used a very expensive aircraft APU generator.

So, any trailer generator is going to be specific to a certain car. While there are a handful of ways to produce the power, there only three logical ways to get the power to the car:

1) DC coupled - this is how the BMW i3 REx is done. Vehicle specific modifications required, with some type of control to not damage the battery. That means whiz bang CANbus King Fu, plus monkeying with deadly high voltage DC.

2) AC powered - power to the onboard vehicle charger. This can be used when stationary, easily. It would take some more whiz bang CANbus King Fu to make this work while the vehicle is in READY and moving. Good luck with the latter. You could also use an aftermarket onboard charger (Brusa, etc) and power this with the generator while driving. That onboard charger could be on a trailer, rear mounted receiver rack, or in the vehicle.

3) AC powered driven wheels as a "pusher" - This pusher configuration could be a trailer, or a mounted motor powering one or two vehicle drive wheels. The trailer is easy, however using a motor on a car will be lots of work. Plus, you are carrying this motor for all the time that the car is underway, even if no additional range is required for a majority of that time.

For the simplest system, obviously the "park-n-charge" method with a generator is something you can do as fast as you can acquire a generator, a method to carry the generator, and a charge cable suitable for the car and generator. Super easy.

Next on the simple list is a pusher trailer, with the only vehicle modification being a 2" trailer receiver ("hitch"). Some simple mechanical method to drive the wheels is simple, but fraught with potential safety implications.

Again, my favorite is a pusher trailer with electric motors driving the trailer wheel(s), and then a commercially available generator powering it. It can push you down the road and recharge the car (or power anything else) when you get there.

Using a trailer with a spare LEAF battery is a low cost and reasonably easy, except the there are (again) bigly issues. How would you plan to safely CONNECT the DC power if the two batteries were at different voltages?Nothing that whiz bang CANbus King Fu can't mitigate, but this isn't for kids.

Don't forget other types of pusher trailers. An AC generator to electric motors is about the most expensive and least efficient way of building a pusher trailer.

 

[TonyWilliams]

The battery trailer referenced in the link (MobileBattery) is not meant to be tied into the Leafs electrical system. It is meant to be used as a portable power source to charge an EV using a Chademo connector. The trailer is advertised with a capacity of 20kwh to 200kwh with the ability to quick charge up to four vehicles at a time. It just needs an outlet to recharge it when depleted. It is essentially an alternative to a generator on a trailer. At this point in time, it seems too expensive to be a mass marketable item.

Just check out their website to see what a taxpayer boondoggle that company is:

"Projects initiated or carried out by BVB INNOVATE have won numerous prizes, e.g. the European Satellite Navigtion Competition of the European Space Agency (ESA). Some are lighthouse projects funded by the German government (e.g. DriveBattery2015) or Europe’s Next Innovation Leaders Projects funded by the EU Commission"

Germans love throwing tax payer money at bottomless pits of technology.

I like the idea of generator on a trailer that can be used when camping (or something) where there is no power available. I would want something fairly quiet that runs on propane. Trying to rig something to charge and drive is complex and dangerous, especially since the Leaf was not designed with that as an option. I like the concept of a pusher device, that will use the Leafs regen capability to recharge the battery while moving, but it is not exactly an efficient way to do so. I just don't see this taking off as a profitable venture, more of a DIY project for those that believe they need it.

I had a really long detailed plan typed up as my iPad battery stopped.

In a nutshell, Volkswagen Bug pusher burning propane (LPG), CNG or gasoline. These drive units are dirt cheap and readily available now, and probably for the next 50 years. The trailer would only require a mount for the transaxle, since the motor hangs off the back (which facilitates a trailer tongue in front).

I'd recommend using the same wheel hubs as the tow vehicle, so that a spare can be put on the trailer that can replace all 6 wheels on the ground.

I'd put a small flat bed on top to haul things (dual purpose!). It could be for camping, too, with a tent on top. There could probably be a Power Take-Off (PTO) from the motor to power a generator.

The transmission only needs all 4th gear and neutral; you can remove all other gears to save weight.

How to safely control the Bug motor (I think):

1) Flip a switch to power up the pusher electrics, and then press the start button. The motor won't start unless the clutch is disengaged. Anytime the clutch disengages, the transaxle goes to 4th gear. This requires two servos or linear actuators. The power switch disengages the clutch and puts the transaxle in 4th gear, and enables the start button (N/O relay closes to allow power to the starter solenoid switch).

2) With the motor running, the simple way to engage the clutch is to drive the tow vehicle to the calculated speeed that the fast idle speed of the VW motor will be in 4th gear, then engage clutch. Ideally, this would be an automated process that when the motor flywheel speed and clutch speed would match within X%, which would then engage the clutch.

3) This would enable the pusher throttle control. The vehicle can remain in Drive, or "ECO" / B / L, which will recharge the battery in the EV, or neutral to let the pusher just propel the car.

4) Pusher throttle control - ?

5) To disengage / shutdown - Hit kill button which will disengage clutch and put transaxle in neutral.

6) Flip switch to kill power to pusher, which will shut down the motor, and shot off fuel control valve.

 

[baustin]

Now that's a reasonable idea for a pusher. Someone might be able to make a little money selling the control modules and DIY plans.

I was thinking about your idea of a pusher with an electric motor. I was wondering if it would be possible to take the front end off of a wrecked Leaf and make a pusher trailer out of it. Add a generator to power the electric motor, that could also be a power source for other uses (parked charging, camping, remote job-site). Rigging up the On/Off, Neutral/Drive, and Throttle controls would take some work. I don't know if any of the wrecked Leaf components could be used for that. There is the thread about the Leaf powered go-cart, so I suppose it's not impossible.

 

[IssacZachary]

Hey! I happen to have a brand new 1600cc VW air-cooled engine. Also a transaxle.

I've also thought of converting my 1984 VW diesel engine into a pusher. It could also be converted fully or partially to propane which would reduce or eliminate the particulate emissions.

A low emissions propane engine could be built by adding a turbo charger and running the AFR at around 30:1. Propane, unlike gasoline, will still ignite and burn cleanly at that AFR, and actually reduce CO, HC and VOC emissions. But since it has a lot of air that's not being used for burning anything the combustion temperatures are greatly reduced which also practically eliminates NOx emissions, and all without any expensive and highly precise engine emissions management system.

But what would seem most practical to me would be a propane powered V twin engine with a sprag clutch. Weight could be greatly reduced since the engine need not produce more power than the average needed by both the car and trailer. Weight would further be reduced by having a simple chain drive, preferably to a one wheeled trailer. The sprag clutch would be completely automatic. The engine would only need to be controlled on or off. A 12V signal to the starter would start it, the throttle left open to an "average" power (possibly fully open depending on the size of the engine) that would cause a little regen constantly going over flat ground. The sprag clutch would automatically engage with no input. When deceleration is needed or your battery has plenty of range to go all-electric you would simply turn off the engine. The sprag clutch would automatically disengage.

I was thinking about your idea of a pusher with an electric motor. I was wondering if it would be possible to take the front end off of a wrecked Leaf and make a pusher trailer out of it. Add a generator to power the electric motor, that could also be a power source for other uses (parked charging, camping, remote job-site). Rigging up the On/Off, Neutral/Drive, and Throttle controls would take some work. I don't know if any of the wrecked Leaf components could be used for that. There is the thread about the Leaf powered go-cart, so I suppose it's not impossible.

Yes, it can be done. But electric drive is the most expensive and inefficient form of ICE to wheel drive. The only benefit is that you don't need a mechanical clutch to disengage the engine from the wheels.

 

[jlsoaz]

...
So, any trailer generator is going to be specific to a certain car. While there are a handful of ways to produce the power, there only three logical ways to get the power to the car:
...

Tony - thanks for spelling all of this out. I will admit that I will have to go back and review to understand better, but I appreciate the thorough helpful explanation.

We're coming at this from quite different angles, and I think that's worth recognizing. While I do find DIY and small invention business efforts well worth including in the conversation, generally I want to include also larger business efforts, even if they might at first appear to be too expensive. So, if a company like Nissan or a tier 1 supplier (or something on those levels) could put together a battery trailer or a hydrocarbon-burner-trailer or vehicle add-on of some sort, then that would be something that for me would make one of the used early generation (under 50 kWh) short-range BEVS into a buying proposition that I could re-consider. Even assuming I did not personally go for one, for EV business analysis discussion I wonder how it might change the economics in that part of the marketplace. To be sure, it might not change things that much, and as far as I am aware it's not completely clear in all aspects (at least not to me) what will happen with the used early BEVS in terms of price, use-cases, recycling, revisions, pack 2nd life, etc.

You also mentioned this:

With respect to the example battery trailer company I've mentioned a couple of times. Their website does include mention of charging while driving (in the future, helping underscore the point you have been making that charging-while-driving apparently is much more difficult to implement from an engineering point of view than I had realized).

http://bvb-innovate.com/mobilebattery/?lang=en

Mobat Use Cases:

1. Rapid-charging stations [...]
2. Charging dispersed e-vehicle fleets [...]
3. Breakdown services [...]
4. Valet Recharging [...]
5. Mobile Energy [...]
6. Charging while driving
In the next phase we will offer Mobats that charge your vehicle during the drive. Simply hitch up a Mobat ‘on demand’ for a long journey and replace it whenever necessary. You can thus travel unlimited distances with an e-vehicle.
[...]

I do think it would perhaps be worth mentioning that while a trailer (whether battery or combustion conversion of fuel) is ungainly and not that great for some purposes, it could help all but eliminate time wasted waiting for long-haul recharge as compared to gasoline refills, especially if the battery packs could be swapped.

As to your point about the company itself not looking to you like much, while it is legit to always keep our radar detectors on to try to watch out for nonsense (whether large or small companies or individuals), this is to me something to be taken under advisement without being quite that dismissive. In this case, I have my own take. I don't want corporate speculation to distract us over-much from learning what we can. For example, have they recently turned to focus on other things (public charging) ? If so, was this because the Mobat system wasn't getting anywhere business-wise, or some other reason? If not, then is the product available for purchase (or perhaps roadway subscription use?) somewhere in the world? When can we expect to see the product? Anyway, for our purposes in this particular thread, my main point in citing them is to give a visual and a description of a battery trailer, seemingly or possibly well-implemented in some ways on the tech development side.

 

[jlsoaz]

I'd love to do a battery trailer!
I'm just a bit scared. A generator is lighter as well as plug and play. A battery trailer requires:

1. A large battery of the same voltage as the Leaf. If you want another 24kW battery with a safer battery technology like LiFePO4 you're looking at $10,000 in the batteries alone?! A wrecked Leaf battery for $2,000 is probably what I'd like.
2. To connect to the Leaf you'd have to do one of two methods. One is to wire a second Leaf battery into some sort of switching module and use either one or the other battery. That means pulling over, shutting off and switching to the other battery.
3. The connections have to be well done unless you want a fire hazard! Even then, this isn't the safest thing. Would you feel safe running a fuel hose from a trailer with a large gasoline tank on it to your ICE car? Things need to be water tight, well insulated, fuse, contactor and logically protected.

One thing that would appeal to me is if the battery trailer had its own charger. Then I could use it first, get to the next town and leave it at a charging station, do my errands, and come back and get it and go home.

Hi IsaacZachary:

The points about safety are hopefully well-taken by me, and even if things seemed well-executed, I wonder how first-responders and various state regulators would take adding on a second potentially lethal power source, and how it would do in an accident. I don't know how to address that.

On cost, I think it's clear that batteries are coming down in cost a fair amount.

On charging the thing, I would imagine that at the least common socket charging should be built in, if not faster charging.

Just to clarify generally - it is slightly possible that someday I personally could use a battery or hydrocarbon genset trailer, though my question was more for theoretical industry discussion purposes than for personal purchase purposes.

 

[IssacZachary]

Hi IsaacZachary:

The points about safety are hopefully well-taken by me, and even if things seemed well-executed, I wonder how first-responders and various state regulators would take adding on a second potentially lethal power source, and how it would do in an accident. I don't know how to address that.

On cost, I think it's clear that batteries are coming down in cost a fair amount.

On charging the thing, I would imagine that at the least common socket charging should be built in, if not faster charging.

Just to clarify generally - it is slightly possible that someday I personally could use a battery or hydrocarbon genset trailer, though my question was more for theoretical industry discussion purposes than for personal purchase purposes.

Agreed! If there were an economical commercial plug and play method of getting all these first generation Leafs to be able to do 300 miles in a day would be totally awesome!

But I'm afraid when the Bolt, Model 3 and second generation Leaf come out it's going to work out into "You have an antiquated first generation BEV. Go spend $30,000 on a new generation, long distance BEV." instead of "Let me rent you a cheap battery trailer to get your $5,000 used Leaf to anywhere you want to go."

 

[VitaminJ]

There are kits to turbocharge your 1996 Honda Civic or you can order a brand new production fender for your 1972 Plymouth Fury and there are entire companies built around offering upgrades for a single model of car. Why on Earth would you think that nobody will have upgrades available for the Leaf in the future?

And I am so glad somebody finally found a way to turn my Leaf into a 25mpg aircooled 80-year-old stinky, noisy, piece of junk!

 

[jlsoaz]

There are kits to turbocharge your 1996 Honda Civic or you can order a brand new production fender for your 1972 Plymouth Fury and there are entire companies built around offering upgrades for a single model of car. Why on Earth would you think that nobody will have upgrades available for the Leaf in the future?

And I am so glad somebody finally found a way to turn my Leaf into a 25mpg aircooled 80-year-old stinky, noisy, piece of junk!

Hi - I am not sure to whom you are responding, but yes, I think there will be (and already are, to some extent) modifications that can be done. This came up very quickly circa 2011-2012 with the innovations of the EVSE upgrade process, for one thing.

One problem is that the waiting period is frustrating and, arguably, missing the boat for those of us who are economically in the long tail end of the line - who do not have $20k-$40k to spend on new or mid-price used vehicle depreciation. So, it's been about six years since the Leaf first came on the scene in the US market. Prices for used Gen1 Leafs are now finally down under $8k-$10k (though undoubtedly in some cases the batteries are so degraded that they are not very useful buys)and getting to the point where some of us used buyers can consider them. However, some of us are situated such that a short-range BEV does not do us much good and it is expensive to keep a second vehicle for longer trips. So, for some of us, this begs the question of when (or whether) a really good (in all ways) range-extender mod, of some sort, will be out there as a widely-available and trustworthy option.

For me, a lot of this is moot... I will probably just keep on trundling along in an old <$3000 Ford gasoline-powered vehicle or maybe, eventually, go for a used Volt.

 

[VitaminJ]

I was replying to IsaacZachary. I believe in 5 years, maybe less, there will be aftermarket options that will greatly extend the range of 2011-2017 Leafs, perhaps 200 or 300 miles for $5000 or less. I believe they will come in the form of battery upgrades. Hell there already exists (or existed) a company upgrading Leafs to 48kwh for $6400, that's 200 miles if you squint. A pusher trailer hardly makes sense now, with the next generation of EV coming with 250 miles range and even faster charging (Bolt, Model 3, Hyundai, Renault) then a pusher trailer (or even generator) is bordering on useless. Those new cars will only serve to drive down the price on current gen Leafs and make it to the point where you can pick up a car and pay Nissan for a brand new battery and still come out under $10k.

One problem is that the waiting period is frustrating and, arguably, missing the boat for those of us who are economically in the long tail end of the line - who do not have $20k-$40k to spend on new or mid-price used vehicle depreciation. So, it's been about six years since the Leaf first came on the scene in the US market. Prices for used Gen1 Leafs are now finally down under $8k-$10k (though undoubtedly in some cases the batteries are so degraded that they are not very useful buys)and getting to the point where some of us used buyers can consider them.

So the solution is to wait another 6 years and then buy a used Bolt or Model 3 or Hyundai etc., spend some weekends in your garage building a contraption, or you can spend less than $10k on a used plug-in hybrid. I couldn't afford an EV until used prices dropped below $10k. Luckily that only took 4 years!

Either way, expecting an actual company to build a business around rental extendo-trailers for EVs is a pipe dream. Toyota and Mobat tried and gave up. Building a pusher-trailer only adds about 1000x more safety, stability, engineering, and control problems than a generator trailer. Dreaming up a pusher trailer made out of an old VW Beetle must take some type of pipe I've never smoked before, that's some heady stuff, maaaaaaannnnn.

 

[IssacZachary]

We all hope that useful aftermarket products will become available. But...

The $6500 mod takes a used battery from a wrecked Leaf and fits it in your trunk so that your vehicle now only has a 195lb passenger/cargo limit. It's not at all an aftermarket extended range battery that anyone can buy and just plug in themselves with the help of an instruction pamphlet. But as long as there are wrecked generation 1 Leafs that might work. It's not a solution for someone like me who has to transport more than one person in the vehicle.

So far our best bet is either a used battery from a wrecked Leaf with in the car, as in the $6,500 mod, or on a trailer, or a new $5,500 plus core charge battery from Nissan that someone hacks into himself to integrate into his Leaf either in the car or on a trailer.

The aftermarket sector isn't even closer to doing better than that. Right now you're looking at $10,000 or better just for 24kW with of aftermarket cells. That's not including all the hardware, software and such to make those cells actually work. How are you supposed to get that down to $5,000 or less within 5 or 6 years and still make the car useful for hauling around more than just the driver?

This isn't a fender. It also isn't a turbocharger that can be used on any engine within a broad range of sizes and only requires a cast manifold to fit a certain car like a Honda Accord. It's more like building an engine and drive train (which it literally is in the case of the ICE range extender) and trying to sell the whole set up for $5,000. That isn't going to happen. Even a simple long block with no emissions and no carburetion/fuel injection costs $4,000 or better. Add on a transmission ($4,000) or a 30kW generator ($2,000) motor controller ($2,000) and motor ($2,000) plus frame, wheels, driveline, cooling system, fuel injection system, sensors, tuning, mapping, emissions systems, etc, or a battery they haven't gotten down cheaper than $10,000, plus balancer ($3,000) and whatever controller or interface or drive system your looking for ($$$).

I'm not saying it never will happen. But until it does what do you think a guy should do? Sit on his thumb? The VW air cooled pusher trailer is a proven concept that can, possibly, some day be modernized and employed commercially. It's a first step. The used extra battery in the trunk modification is a proven concept/first step. If we didn't have people turning their Leafs into "25mpg aircooled 80-year-old stinky, noisy, pieces of junk" or hacking into their batteries we wouldn't be making any steps in the direction of extending range.

I don't see dropping in a 1400lb 60kW battery into a first generation Leaf as a feasible upgrade in the future though and highly doubt that other range extending mods will become economically feasible commercially.