Trailer batteries or gensets for Leafs?

[baustin]

Curious if you can link me to the pusher-trailer you know about that's proven to work.

Pusher Power is not a new concept. Just google pusher trailer (but you will have to sift through all the links for trailers to the movie Pusher).

Here's a link from 2008 (that also links another article from 2005).
http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/powered-trailer-idea-ev-pusher-trailer-make-conventional-2975.html

 

[IssacZachary]

Curious if you can link me to the pusher-trailer you know about that's proven to work.

First off, there seem to be several pusher trailer articulating buses in the Denver area that seem to work just fine. Basically they are a bus with no engine in front, and a trailer in back with the engine, transmission and drive wheels all on the trailer part of the vehicle.

On the other end of the spectrum there are commercially available Bicycle Pusher Trailers (link) that work just fine. And if you go onto YouTube there are plenty of examples of young guys putting small engine pusher trailers on their bicycles and hitting insane speeds with such setups.

As far as cars go Mr. Sharkey (link) and Tesla's own JB Straubel (link) have made successful pusher trailers using either a VW diesel engine or a VW air cooled engine. And many have followed their EXAMPLE (link). (And coincidentally I own a 1972 VW Beetle, a 1985 VW Golf diesel and a 2013 Nissan Leaf. Mmm...)

One other idea I have is since admittedly, more than 1,000lb of trailer weight would be a bit much for the Leaf, would be to use the motor and driveline of the wrecked Leaf who's battery is being used as a range extending trailer, and use that motor as a type of pusher/regen trailer that takes all accelerating and braking stress off of the Leaf it's aiding. Then you could add up to 4,000lbs in weight of batteries on the (double axle) trailer and still have the same acceleration and braking and hill climbing capabilities.

 

[jlsoaz]

I'm doing a one day rental of a BMW i3 with range extender (through a private party, through Turo). I guess this gets me to wondering if a BMW i3 could be modded so that the gasoline tank is much larger, or if a wrecked i3 would be valuable for folks to tinker with, such as if the engine might make for a good trailer engine.

 

[VitaminJ]

baustin, thanks for that link. Through that I found this
http://www.metrompg.com/posts/phev-pusher-trailer.htm

I love this! I think it's awesome if not just for the pure irony. Also they both are red haha. He took a VW engine out of the Porsche, converted it to EV, cut another VW in half and hooked it to the back of the Porsche. Now it gets 30mpg on the highway, less than the VW got. Brilliant!

It uses an automatic transmission which solves the clutch issue Tony is dealing with over in the other thread (too bad he won't read this) and uses a modern fuel injected engine rather than some piece of junk from 1930 that gets 20mpg (convert it to propane = 15mpg). I love it that nobody has posted this already, it's basically what everyone wanted.

He also had the issues that I was wondering about

Other potential cons:

handling a trailer (e.g. reversing)
finding parking will be harder
dubious legality
winter driving conditions rule out its use for a chunk of each year

There you go, just cut up a perfectly good economy car and get worse mileage. Job done.

 

[IssacZachary]

No one has said you have to like it VitaminJ. But it's a proven concept that works. First you praise JB Straubel for his giga-factory he has planned but rip him to shreds for his early solutions to the limited range problem.

I'm not sure what Mr. Sharky and Straubel got but my 1985 diesel gets consistently over 55mpg on the highway at 75mph. Propane irrigation has been proven to increase overall fuel mileage in diesel engines as well as reduce emissions. So there you go again trying to prove with your keyboard that already proven concepts supposedly don't work.

Yes there are disadvantages to everything. The biggest disadvantages to your battery upgrade solution is that it doesn't exist yet, and we don't know if it ever will and so far it looks like it's going to cost an arm and a leg.. I love the idea! A 41kWh battery that weighs just a tad more in my Leaf. But as of when it comes out, it will cost €8,000 without any of the adapting hardware and electronics. At that price 15mpg actually sounds like a bargain!

 

[VitaminJ]

Sorry for any misunderstanding but I meant everything in good nature. He probably laughs when he looks back on that too, it's from 2005. For 2005 that's impressive, and I am a huge fan of DIY conversions of pretty much any type.

e: for you doesn't it make more sense to just drive the VW to Denver at 55mpg versus some number less mpg trying to push the heavier Leaf with a trailer conversion that costs money and effort? I thought we were driving EVs to save on that stuff.

 

[IssacZachary]

I guess the difference between you and I is that I'm tired of waiting. There were people who traveled from Pennsylvania to Colorado in electric cars back in the late 1800's. Why can't I?

Ever since the 70's we've been told to wait. That some day we'll all be driving around in electric cars. Just be patient, it will happen. But when? Finally the Leaf comes out. Finally you can get a used one for cheap. But it's 2017 and where are all the CHAdeMO stations? Even the level 2 stations, where are those? Things are getting better, but not fast enough for me. I want to be able to get into my BEV and go to Denver.

"Wait!" they say, "The Bolt will eventually come out, and the Tesla 3 and the second generation Leaf." But how does that help me now? "There'll be more charging stations. You'll see." And what am I to do about it now?

"So buy a plugin hybrid," I'm told. Oh great. An expensive compromise. A car that'll I'll pretty much be forced into running an ICE every day anyway. Everywhere I go I'll be able to go half way there on electricity, then half way there on gas. I'll still have to go by the gas station on a weekly basis. But I can charge at home and at public charging stations too, right after I fill the fuel tank. I guess if I really wanted to I could figure out how to charge a Volt 4 times a day instead of twice like in my Leaf and then maybe not have to use gasoline. Or a plugin Prius that will need to be charged 8 times in a day to go all-electric. Oh how convenient that would be wouldn't it.

So my options are, do something to the Leaf to get it to make it to the next charging station for those three or four times a year that I need to go to Denver. Or give up, and go get something with an ICE that I'll be using every day. Oh wait, I already have two.

 

[VitaminJ]

No, the best option is to drive the crap out of your Leaf every day, and for the 3 or 4 times a year get 55mpg in your VW to Denver. Or you can use plugshare and just drive to Denver in your stock Leaf tomorrow. I guarantee you can buy a second hand Bolt or Model 3 before anyone on this forum builds a pusher trailer.

 

[IssacZachary]

No, the best option is to drive the crap out of your Leaf every day, and for the 3 or 4 times a year get 55mpg in your VW to Denver. Or you can use plugshare and just drive to Denver in your stock Leaf tomorrow. I guarantee you can buy a second hand Bolt or Model 3 before anyone on this forum builds a pusher trailer.

Option A is what I'm doing. But option B still isn't possible. The next plug between here and Denver is just barely out of reach in Salida. So I'm going to have you get my Leaf towed back to Denver to get a second key made, the OCS recall fixed and to get the TCU upgraded and then have it towed back to my home.

I'm thinking of towing it with my 1985 diesel Golf. It's a diesel, it'll tow anything.

 

[VitaminJ]

It's only 64 miles to Salida, plus it's also only 41 miles to the top of Monarch Pass, you make it up to the top then you're gravy, it's all downhill from there. After that you're almost spoiled for choice through Buena Vista, Leadville, and then down I-70.

This is where a generator on a hitch rack would make a good companion so you're not stranded in the mountains without cell signal.

 

[Foschas]

I guess the difference between you and I is that I'm tired of waiting. There were people who traveled from Pennsylvania to Colorado in electric cars back in the late 1800's. Why can't I?" .

You can. It's called a Tesla.

https://www.tesla.com/

 

[IssacZachary]

I guess the difference between you and I is that I'm tired of waiting. There were people who traveled from Pennsylvania to Colorado in electric cars back in the late 1800's. Why can't I?" .

You can. It's called a Tesla.

https://www.tesla.com/

For some reason my bank account doesn't agree with you.

It's only 64 miles to Salida, plus it's also only 41 miles to the top of Monarch Pass, you make it up to the top then you're gravy, it's all downhill from there. After that you're almost spoiled for choice through Buena Vista, Leadville, and then down I-70.

This is where a generator on a hitch rack would make a good companion so you're not stranded in the mountains without cell signal.

Yes. Once to the top of Monarch it should be a gravy drive. But it's also a 4,000ft climb to the top. :shock:

If I can get a used 240V sine wave generator I'll do it. But it also wouldn't make much sense to buy a new $4,000 or $5,000 pure sine wave generator (plus hitch, plus rack) just to get my $9,000 Leaf 40 miles to the top of Monarch Pass.

 

[jlsoaz]

I'm doing a one day rental of a BMW i3 with range extender (through a private party, through Turo). I guess this gets me to wondering if a BMW i3 could be modded so that the gasoline tank is much larger, or if a wrecked i3 would be valuable for folks to tinker with, such as if the engine might make for a good trailer engine.

To expand on this thought for a moment:

Unfortunately in my one day rental, I became concerned about the local traffic, some other distracting factors, and the risk of driving someone else's $45k vehicle, and so did not really drive it quite as far as I might have done, and so I did not get into any sort of testing or experience with the vehicle's range-extender, but the i3 with range extender is I think worth discussing a bit more. The thing is, as I understand it, BMW artificially crippled the capabilities of the vehicle....something to do with the California regulations. So, for example, this is why the gas tank is so ridiculously small (2 gallons or so?).... (if I recall, it leads to the gasoline range being less than the battery range, so that helps satisfy some reg - something like that). This in turn I think leads to some hacking efforts that may run into some conflict with BMW about the warranty, but anyway, that's my recollection of a conversations from a long while back.

Anyway, the i3 with range extender is not a vehicle with a trailer, but does have the sort of limited engine that some trailer discussion participants seem to be discussing and, in my view, has always been a candidate for modding in a calculated risky way outside of dealer warranty... specifically if the gasoline tank could be increased significantly. I don't know what safety issues would come up with a larger tank though... perhaps a proper job of it would have to take this more seriously than some might be inclined. Then again, I'm probably very far behind the curve on this, as I have not read much in a couple of years.

 

[VitaminJ]

Yes. Once to the top of Monarch it should be a gravy drive. But it's also a 4,000ft climb to the top. :shock:

If I can get a used 240V sine wave generator I'll do it. But it also wouldn't make much sense to buy a new $4,000 or $5,000 pure sine wave generator (plus hitch, plus rack) just to get my $9,000 Leaf 40 miles to the top of Monarch Pass.

No it wouldn't make sense to buy any of that stuff new, but craigslist would make that better. Also I know people don't like reading what I write all the time, but maybe this time you can click this link I post:
https://www.costco.com/Champion-7000W-Running--9000W-Peak-DUAL-FUEL-Generator-wElectric-Start.product.100220385.html

$800: pure sine wave, CARB compliant, propane and gasoline ready, 7000 watts/9000 peak. But people will still come up with a reason they need to have a $4000 Honda.



Also just an update to the whole thread; that guy who had the Extendo-Range Battery pack in the trunk of his Leaf that TonyWilliams wrongly said burnt to the ground, well he posted another update!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Zivzvh9Bx0&


A couple things we learned from his experience today: the Leaf has a lot of relays and other things going on, and you must disconnect the extendo-pack from the main pack before turning off the car. He instinctively just hit off when he arrived at his destination, the computer still saw high voltage from the back up pack after the main pack turned off and the car threw a ton of codes. He had to tow it and it wouldn't charge either. The solution would be to wire the relay into the car's 12v system to it turns off the extendo-pack with the main pack.

 

[jlsoaz]

I guess the difference between you and I is that I'm tired of waiting. There were people who traveled from Pennsylvania to Colorado in electric cars back in the late 1800's. Why can't I?" .

You can. It's called a Tesla.

https://www.tesla.com/

For some reason my bank account doesn't agree with you.

I'm in that same boat. Used Tesla Model S's seem to be down in the $40k range, at minimum. Perhaps another 5-10 years and I'll be able to look at getting one. I am trying to avoid paying so much depreciation on a car. I just want to buy into the lower-cost tail end of its value, even if I have to put up with beat up interiors, increased repairs, lower overall lifetime, some out-of-date electronics aspects, and lower trade-in values and such.

It's only 64 miles to Salida, plus it's also only 41 miles to the top of Monarch Pass, you make it up to the top then you're gravy, it's all downhill from there. After that you're almost spoiled for choice through Buena Vista, Leadville, and then down I-70.

This is where a generator on a hitch rack would make a good companion so you're not stranded in the mountains without cell signal.

Yes. Once to the top of Monarch it should be a gravy drive. But it's also a 4,000ft climb to the top. :shock:

If I can get a used 240V sine wave generator I'll do it. But it also wouldn't make much sense to buy a new $4,000 or $5,000 pure sine wave generator (plus hitch, plus rack) just to get my $9,000 Leaf 40 miles to the top of Monarch Pass.

This may have already been explained (and I don't mean to be dense on this point) but why would it be necessary to buy that expensive a generator for that scenario?

 

[IssacZachary]

This may have already been explained (and I don't mean to be dense on this point) but why would it be necessary to buy that expensive a generator for that scenario?

Mainly because we know that the pure sine wave Yamaha and Honda generators will work, besides being much quieter, lighter and fuel efficient.

For an example the Champion generator suggested above by Vitaminj might work (I'm sure it would), but we won't know for sure until someone tries it out. That generator also isn't a true sine wave generator, although it says it has a clean sine wave with only a limited amount of electric "noise." There's reason to fear that a "noisy" electric source could cause problems with the EVSE and the charger itself, perhaps even causing damage.

 

[jlsoaz]

This may have already been explained (and I don't mean to be dense on this point) but why would it be necessary to buy that expensive a generator for that scenario?

Mainly because we know that the pure sine wave Yamaha and Honda generators will work, besides being much quieter, lighter and fuel efficient.

For an example the Champion generator suggested above by Vitaminj might work (I'm sure it would), but we won't know for sure until someone tries it out. That generator also isn't a true sine wave generator, although it says it has a clean sine wave with only a limited amount of electric "noise." There's reason to fear that a "noisy" electric source could cause problems with the EVSE and the charger itself, perhaps even causing damage.

Ok, thanks.

 

[VitaminJ]

Looky what my buddy let me borrow. Let's see if it works!

 

[jjeff]

Let us know how it works out, 29a is a nice output, even with a full 30a EVSE and a 6.6kw Leaf charger you should get the full 27.5a the Leaf will draw. I use the L6-30 plug on my EVSEs but also have adapters to go to the L14-30r it looks like your generator has.
Note generators like that use a floating neutral but using only the two hots I'm not sure if you'll have to bond the neutral to ground or not.....

 

[VitaminJ]

It will have to wait until tomorrow. I pulled on the pull-start once and it fell apart in my hand.

I have a 14-30 adapter to use my modified OEM Nissan EVSE at work but it's only 12amp, it uses blended neutral and ground. My home EVSE is on a 14-50 and I'm not positive that it will function with my 14-30 adapter. It is rated at the full 7kw, however. This generator also only weighs 210 lbs.