Time magazine declares Leaf a flop

[WetEV]

http://business.time.com/2012/09/07/is-it-time-to-declare-the-nissan-leaf-a-flop/?xid=gonewsedit&google_editors_picks=true" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"What the numbers seem to be saying is that the Leaf is not only failing to replace the Prius as the fuel-efficient, eco-conscious car of choice, it is also increasingly looking like a flop."

 

[Stoaty]

"What the numbers seem to be saying is that the Leaf is not only failing to replace the Prius as the fuel-efficient, eco-conscious car of choice, it is also increasingly looking like a flop."

Way too early for this kind of pronouncement. Let's see what happens with the 2013 model prices, features and availability.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

as some responders stated; its Ecotality, the EV Highway Project among others that have failed.

it goes back to how happy would you be in a gas car that gets 500 miles on a tank of gas if the gas station is 600 miles away?

well that is the obvious knee jerk question but tell me; how happy would you be with a gas car where you had to drive 20 miles out of your way to get gas? even if you only had to do it once a week? sound doable to you?

i would HATE every single gas trip especially if it was the only thing i had to do in the area.

well that analogy is a lot closer to what most EV owners face than most care to realize. remove THAT barrier and range will become a distant 2nd

 

[Stewy13]

Considering that this is the same magazine that declared Hitler Man of the Year, I wouldn't worry that much about their opinion on the matter. Time will tell.

 

[cnuoffer]

I'm disssapointed in the sales numbers and a small part of it is the charging network, but even more so is Nissans marketing and product developement

Marketing - they basically marketed a fun driving, zippy, fast car as an eco friendly vehicle to people who would've bought it no matter what for the econess. So Nissan completely ignored other types of folks, like the guy who enjoys zippyness, or the early tech adopters.
I also would not have called it a Leaf, but rather something like the LE or LE250 or some moniker like that. Hopefully the Infiniti Brand does a better job of marketing.

Product development - even with the tax advantages of an ev, it's still a relatively expensive car, Nissan should've looked at ways to make it more attractive to buyers (bells and whistles, luxury, etc.). Instead, they only allowed one color cloth seats (I know they're really plastic seats, but still, and again marketing to a small segment that was already going to buy it), little irritants such as the having to hit OK or decline on the screen each time the driver turns on the car, or how about the innaccurate mile estimator. We bought an 08 Prius, with leather seats, all the bells and whistels that the Leaf has, and I have to honestly say, Toyota designed it better. That Prius is still more luxurious.
Further, why not expand the ev line to include more sporty models.
those are the problems with this car, a car that I love to drive and not have to pay for fuel to do so. Hopefully the Infiniti Brand does a better job of Product Development.

 

[adric22]

The question remains, though. How is the Leaf doing outside of the USA? Just because it doesn't sell well here doesn't immediately mean it is a failure.

 

[SteveInSeattle]

Let's face facts-- The Leaf has NOT been a success in the market. That doesn't mean it couldn't be or won't be in the future. I think most of us agree that two things: More range and Lower Price, would help sell more volume. Third, A body design refresh couldn't hurt either.. A new body style, 2014 Leaf for $29,000 with a true 100 mile range and thermal battery management would compete aggressively against the Prius.

And, if you've read anything I posted you know I love my Leaf..but I am not a typical customer.

 

[evnow]

The basic question is how does Nissan get the "green" consumers to buy Leaf. We don't need the typical "I don't give a damn about the society" to buy, yet. They will come much later.

What makes people like us buy Leaf, rather than many others who are equally (or even more) environment conscious ? No, they don't all need more range. When I talk about Leaf to people, few have said 70 miles is too less.

Ofcourse, $35k is a bit of a barrier. A lot of urban middle class can't afford that kind of money. Still, it isn't much more than what Prius costs (after tax credits).

Only thing I'd say is - Leaf is too big of a jump, may be even too much of a personal sacrifice. Buying organic products for consumption is one thing - buying an EV apprently a totally different thing.

 

[rpmdk]

Considering that this is the same magazine that declared Hitler Man of the Year, I wouldn't worry that much about their opinion on the matter. Time will tell.

Add to that George Bush and YOU - hard to take this magazine seriously.

 

[Msquared]

I am a new Leaf adopter, so time will tell, but since I did lease the vehicle, I see it as a stepping stone toward a brighter future, with potential of trading up for more updated technology in a few years. I think if someone doesn't adopt this technology early on, then we won't be letting the carmakers know that people want alternative energy vehicles. So, even if EV tech improves over the next few years, I see my having a Leaf as a "yes" statement to the auto industry.

My husband and I definitely planned on getting an EV. We didn't know we would be doing it so soon, but my husband caught the "Leaf bug" when he saw it, and that was that.

 

[PracticingHuman]

Time Magazine is owned by Time Warner, which also owns TBS, which brought us all those Tyler Perry shows. Basically that means Time magazine and Tyler Perry shows are 1st cousins once removed. That should be pretty telling in and of itself... :roll:

Not to mention Time magazine wants nothing more than to see environmentalism fail. Next they'll keep trees from getting cut down, then what will they print their pretty pictures on?

 

[Herm]

I think most of us agree that two things: More range and Lower Price, would help sell more volume. Third, A body design refresh couldn't hurt either..

Its too soon for a refresh, less than 2 years on the market.. but lower price and more range would be nice, plus a durable battery..

How about the new Brusa 22kW charger?
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2012/09/brusa-starts-production-of-22-kw-nlg6-on-board-fast-charger-for-three-phase-currentbrusa22-20120907.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[srl99]

The Leaf has a polarizing look. I met someone who wants to buy an E-car (he works for Siemens, so he'll probably get a good deal on an EVSE) and he said he doesn't like the look of the Leaf, and he has 3 kids - so the Volt is out. He can deal with the range (and has an EVSE at the office ;-) ).

Another factor for an E-car is the ratio of charge time to driving time. Even with a 6.6 kW charger (I'm glad Nissan will make that change in 2013), you are still looking at usual (L2) charge times of >1.5x your drive time (highway speeds). At least it's down from >3x ... Someone on a 6.6 kW e-car forum posted he's going to drive from So Cal to No Cal. That's quite an adventure even with ~ 3 (1/2) hour charge time (per 80 miles).

I applaud Nissan for putting the car into production, a bold move, and helping to tip the scales towards an E-car mainstream. It helps to drive deployment of EVSEs, etc. Eventually, you reach the tipping point.

The first iPhone wasn't a market killer, either. The first Prius not an instant hit (also a polarizing look - just ask Jeremy Clarkson). Give it some time.

Oh, and AOL Time Warner's opinion on something? Whatever.

 

[RegGuheert]

How about the new Brusa 22kW charger?

Given that the battery in the LEAF is only cooled while it is moving and has proven to be so sensitive to heat I think I'll stick with 3.3 kW. I'm not even convinced 6.6 kW will be good for charging the LEAF daily. If I had a LEAF with a 6.6 kW charger I would probably limit my charging at home to 3.3 kW by using the EVSEupgrade and take advantage of the higher speed only when at public chargers.

 

[Herm]

If I had a LEAF with a 6.6 kW charger I would probably limit my charging at home to 3.3 kW by using the EVSEupgrade and take advantage of the higher speed only when at public chargers.

Sounds like a perfect combination, you can also do the same with that Brusa charger if it ever makes it to the US. Notice how compact it is?, hopefully its not a $3k wonder.

 

[RegGuheert]

Sounds like a perfect combination, you can also do the same with that Brusa charger if it ever makes it to the US.

Yeah, good point!

Notice how compact it is?, hopefully its not a $3k wonder.

Yes, it is impressive to be able to process 22 kW in such a small package! Is it smaller than the charger currently in the LEAFs?

 

[palmermd]

Sounds like a perfect combination, you can also do the same with that Brusa charger if it ever makes it to the US. Notice how compact it is?, hopefully its not a $3k wonder.

Their 3kW chargers are over $3000. This thing will surely be much more.

http://www.metricmind.com/price-list/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[TomT]

+1

And much more QC options. L2 charging really does not work for the majority of people away from home or work. It simply takes too long even with 6.6Kw.

Let's face facts-- The Leaf has NOT been a success in the market. That doesn't mean it couldn't be or won't be in the future. I think most of us agree that two things: More range and Lower Price, would help sell more volume. A new body style, 2014 Leaf for $29,000 with a true 100 mile range and thermal battery management would compete aggressively against the Prius.

 

[downeykp]

Interesting question. Is the magazine wrong? If you consider all of the promise that this car had at launch I would say the cars sales performance has been very underwhelming.

We were all excited by all of the hype about 100 mile range that Nissan touted. But then we find out the heater was just for show. The first winter really had a negative impact on the range of the car. $30k for a car that would go 50 mi. +/- in near 0 temperatures. How do you make a positive out of that.
We also found out that the 100mi. range was a joke in normal driving.

Nissan also choked when it came to being honest about its battery and the longevity of the battery. I am still not sure whether it is better for the battery to charge to 100% or 80% and I have been a daily reader of the mnl forum for two years. There is a reason that Nissan will take a bath on this car. They put it to market too quickly and really did not think about many things that we on the forum have been picking apart since its launch.

Time is only reflecting on the poor sales numbers. There will be more negative articles coming if Nissan does not get ahead of the battery problem. Nissan needs to find a solution for all Leafs. The batteries are defective in ALL cars. If they do not provide a fix the Leaf will go the way of the Edsel and the ev-1.

 

[Stoaty]

Nissan also choked when it came to being honest about its battery and the longevity of the battery. I am still not sure whether it is better for the battery to charge to 100% or 80% and I have been a daily reader of the mnl forum for two years.

Perhaps the term "Long Life Mode" (charge to 80%) would mean something to you? While there are many problems with the battery pack, knowing whether to charge to 80% or 100% for longest battery life is certainly not one of them.