Time magazine declares Leaf a flop

[downeykp]

Ok, what about taylorsf in WA state 2 100% charges a day over 50k miles. Many of the capacity problems are from people wo charge to only 80%. Again, there was no real direction about how to charge from Nissan. Long life mode? What does that mean?

 

[Stoaty]

Ok, what about taylorsf in WA state 2 100% charges a day over 50k miles. Many of the capacity problems are from people wo charge to only 80%. Again, there was no real direction about how to charge from Nissan. Long life mode? What does that mean?

taylorsf is doing well because he lives in Washington state, not because he charges to 100%. If you charge to 100% while it is cool and don't leave it at high SOC for long it probably isn't harmful to the battery. There is no evidence that charging to 100% is better for the battery. "Long Life Mode" is Nissan's term for 80% charging. See the Nissan Leaf user manual.

 

[Yanquetino]

To reiterate my previous observations on the numbers reported in this article, you can't sell more vehicles than are available for sale. When we look at those ratios, the LEAF is actually holding its own pretty well:

One might ask: why are there so few LEAFs on dealers' lots then? Only Nissan could answer that question. But my own guess is that they are now shipping the majority of the production from Oppama to other countries, knowing that the Smyrna plant will be coming on line here in the next couple of months.

 

[TomT]

Or simply because they know that the demand is not there presently to support more sales and thus why saturate the dealers lots (and flooring budget) with more vehicles...

One might ask: why are there so few LEAFs on dealers' lots then? Only Nissan could answer that question. But my own guess is that they are now shipping the majority of the production from Oppama to other countries, knowing that the Smyrna plant will be coming on line here in the next couple of months.

 

[jkirkebo]

The question remains, though. How is the Leaf doing outside of the USA? Just because it doesn't sell well here doesn't immediately mean it is a failure.

Nissan can only make 20,000 Leafs per year right now, and they are selling every one. How does that make it a flop ?

In Norway, the Leaf accounts for 40% of Nissans car sales, second only to the Quashqai. It is also the 16th most sold car so far this year.

 

[TomT]

I don't believe that we know with any certainty how many Leaf's Nissan can currently make per year if they actually wanted to make as many as possible... I'm reasonably certain that it is significantly more than they are currently selling, however...

Nissan can only make 20,000 Leafs per year right now, and they are selling every one. How does that make it a flop ?

 

[thankyouOB]

Ok, what about taylorsf in WA state 2 100% charges a day over 50k miles. Many of the capacity problems are from people wo charge to only 80%. Again, there was no real direction about how to charge from Nissan. Long life mode? What does that mean?

= longer life of battery than if charging to 100%, i would think. wouldnt you?

 

[EatsShootsandLeafs]

Pretty reasonable article in fact. The Leaf's future is I think up in the air. Its sales are terrible right now. People who have a Leaf generally like them, but the price has been too high. Nissan HAS to get the prices of these down. I absolutely guarantee that if they were consistently available at some of the ultra-low lease rates some people have gotten recently sales would be much better. This $3k/down $300/month stuff for a car that's only usable in the city is just more than most are ever going to pay.

Nissan isn't demanding a high margin. The problem is simply batteries are too expensive and have to come down in cost. That needs to happen soon or else the Leaf will be in jeopardy.

I never got attention for my Prius, but people notice the Leaf. Just yesterday a neighbor was talking to my wife about it for several minutes. He expressed surprise at our replacing the Prius with a Leaf because "they are so expensive". And until recently they have been. For years there was a major hybrid premium with the Prius such that you'd literally never make your money back. Now you can; the cost has come down. The EV premium on the Leaf is huge. Most can never make up the money on it, and for those capable with basic numbers they thus will only buy it for supra-financial reasons such as geek factor or environmental reasons. But you'll never make huge sales for those. Cost is highly important.

There's nothing particularly wrong with the car unless you're in a hot climate. Otherwise, the range is sufficient for most and the car delivers what it says it does. These things aren't breaking down all over the place and aren't catching on fire, either.

 

[downeykp]

"There's nothing particularly wrong with the car unless you're in a hot climate. Otherwise, the range is sufficient for most and the car delivers what it says it does. These things aren't breaking down all over the place and aren't catching on fire, either."

Your quote says it all. So there is something wrong. If the battery is defective in hot climates then the battery is defective. It needs to be fixed in all Leafs.

 

[downeykp]

Ok, what about taylorsf in WA state 2 100% charges a day over 50k miles. Many of the capacity problems are from people wo charge to only 80%. Again, there was no real direction about how to charge from Nissan. Long life mode? What does that mean?

= longer life of battery than if charging to 100%, i would think. wouldnt you?

But aren't people who are charging to 80% still having battery issues?

 

[thankyouOB]

Ok, what about taylorsf in WA state 2 100% charges a day over 50k miles. Many of the capacity problems are from people wo charge to only 80%. Again, there was no real direction about how to charge from Nissan. Long life mode? What does that mean?

= longer life of battery than if charging to 100%, i would think. wouldnt you?

But aren't people who are charging to 80% still having battery issues?

"longer life" is a relative term. it means longer life than...if you charge to 100%.
if doesnt preclude your issue.

I am not disputing that we have owners in hot climates who report degradation though they almost always charge to 80%.

 

[SierraQ]

Considering that this is the same magazine that declared Hitler Man of the Year, I wouldn't worry that much about their opinion on the matter. Time will tell.

Add to that George Bush and YOU - hard to take this magazine seriously.

I can't blame either of you for misunderstanding this as many people do. "The Person of the Year" award goes to the person that "for better or for worse, ...has done the most to influence the events of the year." That is the criteria. So This isn't the Nobel Prize. Other people to have been named includes: Pope John Paul II, Rudolph Giuliani, Barack Obama, and Mark Zuckerberg. Not too surprisingly the President of the United States tends to get it due to that office being highly influential. Interestingly Osama Bin Laden nearly beat out Rudolph Giuliani in 2001.

 

[ksnogas2112]

Nissan needs more $4/gallon gas. On the plus side, we're almost there.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

The Leaf appeals to those who are passionate about a cause whose personal transportation requirements and financial situation permit accepting the limitations. The discussion surrounding its suitability (i.e. whether someone "likes" the car") is framed in the context of gas prices and availability. The wisdom of the market suggests the pool of willing buyers is what it is given the current parameters. Some combination of higher (yet) gas prices a lower price of the car will grow that pool. Any disruption of availability of fuel though and it will be Katie bar the door... although in the absence of price controls that wouldn't happen, the pool would grow as a result of the higher prices.

Believe me, if people had to wait in line for hours for $12 a gallon gas, we would be the ones being told at cocktail parties how wonderful these cars are.

 

[Bassman]

The 22KW BRUSA is a three phase charger. Who has three phase at home? A useless piece of equipment IMO. A 240 volt, 10 to 15 KW single phase charger would be more useable.

 

[rpmdk]

Considering that this is the same magazine that declared Hitler Man of the Year, I wouldn't worry that much about their opinion on the matter. Time will tell.

Add to that George Bush and YOU - hard to take this magazine seriously.

I can't blame either of you for misunderstanding this as many people do. "The Person of the Year" award goes to the person that "for better or for worse, ...has done the most to influence the events of the year." That is the criteria. So This isn't the Nobel Prize. Other people to have been named includes: Pope John Paul II, Rudolph Giuliani, Barack Obama, and Mark Zuckerberg. Not too surprisingly the President of the United States tends to get it due to that office being highly influential. Interestingly Osama Bin Laden nearly beat out Rudolph Giuliani in 2001.

Didn't misunderstand, just hated those choices.

 

[jkirkebo]

"There's nothing particularly wrong with the car unless you're in a hot climate. Otherwise, the range is sufficient for most and the car delivers what it says it does. These things aren't breaking down all over the place and aren't catching on fire, either."

Your quote says it all. So there is something wrong. If the battery is defective in hot climates then the battery is defective. It needs to be fixed in all Leafs.

Why "fix" the Leafs in Norway ? We had two days this summer with max temperatures above 77 F. Currently the morning temperatures are around 45 F...

 

[jkirkebo]

The 22KW BRUSA is a three phase charger. Who has three phase at home? A useless piece of equipment IMO. A 240 volt, 10 to 15 KW single phase charger would be more useable.

True for the US. In Europe, we have three-phase at home but can't usually get more than 32A from a single phase. Thus a 15kW single phase chargers are useless here.

 

[TickTock]

The 22KW BRUSA is a three phase charger. Who has three phase at home? A useless piece of equipment IMO. A 240 volt, 10 to 15 KW single phase charger would be more useable.

True for the US. In Europe, we have three-phase at home but can't usually get more than 32A from a single phase. Thus a 15kW single phase chargers are useless here.

It's not too hard to make 3 phase from 1 - just need a 3 phase motor and a few caps. For 22kW, you would need to find a 50hp (22000/746*3/2~=50) motor, though (a very big motor), and a 150A circuit. 5-20hp phase converters are fairly common for home workshops. 50 is definitely a big setup but we are, after-all, talking about moving a HUGE amount of energy in a short time - there's no easy way to do it.

 

[EVDRIVER]

The 22KW BRUSA is a three phase charger. Who has three phase at home? A useless piece of equipment IMO. A 240 volt, 10 to 15 KW single phase charger would be more useable.

True for the US. In Europe, we have three-phase at home but can't usually get more than 32A from a single phase. Thus a 15kW single phase chargers are useless here.

It's not too hard to make 3 phase from 1 - just need a 3 phase motor and a few caps. For 22kW, you would need to find a 50hp (22000/746*3/2~=50) motor, though (a very big motor), and a 150A circuit. 5-20hp phase converters are fairly common for home workshops. 50 is definitely a big setup but we are, after-all, talking about moving a HUGE amount of energy in a short time - there's no easy way to do it.

Regardless is costs $7000 for the charger form Brusa. That is likely without their expensive cables.