The unofficial Leaf dropout thread

[DaveinOlyWA]

Done. Full pop, plus $200 for "super-duper white". $51,200.

Wrap came off the LEAF in about 20 minutes of pulling.

Think I'll go squeal the tires!!! Only 62 Rav4's sold in Sept, and 47 in Oct, so I'm about number 110 in the whole world.

BTW, forgot to ask... IIRC, I thought you were working on installing a CHAdeMO charger at home. Have you decided to abandon that given that you no longer have and won't have a car that can even use it?

i am gonna guess Tony's next project is installing CHAdeMO on his RAV

 

[TonyWilliams]

I remain cautiously optimistic, my battery is likely degraded but subjectively it is performing almost as good as new after 14 months and 20k miles. The most important part is that I have more than enough range for my 50-60 mile daily commute even at 80% charge.

How are you managing that? You must be getting around 5 mi/kWh? I drove 54 mi yesterday mostly at 65 mph on a 100% charge and got home with 4.1 mi/kWh and 2 bars remaining (GOM said 13 mi). Definitely would have been below LBW if I had only charged to 80%.

Yep, I remember (snort) those days... seems like yesterday... driving a normal speed down the highway, wondering if I might make it home.

I drove 55 miles today; 64 miles are remaining on the DTE. Cruising 70-75mph down the freeway, a little stop and go, and a little downtown driving.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Done. Full pop, plus $200 for "super-duper white". $51,200.

Wrap came off the LEAF in about 20 minutes of pulling.

Think I'll go squeal the tires!!! Only 62 Rav4's sold in Sept, and 47 in Oct, so I'm about number 110 in the whole world.

BTW, forgot to ask... IIRC, I thought you were working on installing a CHAdeMO charger at home. Have you decided to abandon that given that you no longer have and won't have a car that can even use it?

Well, I'm working on plan B. It's not a stretch to think that a Chademo port could be put on the Rav4 and Tesla Model S-40. I'm still working on charging infrastructure, and on the Nissan LEAF Advisory Board.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Done. Full pop, plus $200 for "super-duper white". $51,200.

Wrap came off the LEAF in about 20 minutes of pulling.

Think I'll go squeal the tires!!! Only 62 Rav4's sold in Sept, and 47 in Oct, so I'm about number 110 in the whole world.

BTW, forgot to ask... IIRC, I thought you were working on installing a CHAdeMO charger at home. Have you decided to abandon that given that you no longer have and won't have a car that can even use it?

Well, I'm working on plan B. It's not a stretch to think that a Chademo port could be put on the Rav4 and Tesla Model S-40. I'm still working on charging infrastructure, and on the Nissan LEAF Advisory Board.

Tony; there is no doubt in my mind that you gave Nissan more than a little to think about and I hope that continues. Now you need to get Toyota and CHAdeMO together...play matchmaker!! hook em up!

 

[Valdemar]

Drove 73 miles today on 100% charge arriving home where I started in the morning, about half on freeway @65mph, rest streets driving conservatively but not overly so - kept up with traffic for the most parts, a/c was ON for 25 minutes. Arrived home with 1 bar/11 miles on the GOM. Car has almost 20k miles over 14 months, spends most of its time in San Fernando Valley. I don't remember the range being much better a year ago.

 

[surfingslovak]

Drove 73 miles today on 100% charge arriving home where I started in the morning, about half on freeway @65mph, rest streets driving conservatively but not overly so - kept up with traffic for the most parts, a/c was ON for 25 minutes. Arrived home with 1 bar/11 miles on the GOM. Car has almost 20k miles over 14 months, spends most of its time in San Fernando Valley. I don't remember the range being much better a year ago.

That's very good. Would you happen to know your energy economy for this trip?

 

[Valdemar]

Drove 73 miles today on 100% charge arriving home where I started in the morning, about half on freeway @65mph, rest streets driving conservatively but not overly so - kept up with traffic for the most parts, a/c was ON for 25 minutes. Arrived home with 1 bar/11 miles on the GOM. Car has almost 20k miles over 14 months, spends most of its time in San Fernando Valley. I don't remember the range being much better a year ago.

That's very good. Would you happen to know your energy economy for this trip?

I didn't reset the trip meter. I can pull the numbers from Carwings when they become available, not sure if they are to be trusted though. Or maybe there is another way I'm unaware of?

 

[surfingslovak]

Drove 73 miles today on 100% charge arriving home where I started in the morning, about half on freeway @65mph, rest streets driving conservatively but not overly so - kept up with traffic for the most parts, a/c was ON for 25 minutes. Arrived home with 1 bar/11 miles on the GOM. Car has almost 20k miles over 14 months, spends most of its time in San Fernando Valley. I don't remember the range being much better a year ago.

That's very good. Would you happen to know your energy economy for this trip?

I didn't reset the trip meter. I can pull the numbers from Carwings when they become available, not sure if they are to be trusted though. Or maybe there is another way I'm unaware of?

I'm afraid not, and thank you for your willingness to get those numbers. I think your Leaf was from the same batch like mine, and CarWings did not work correctly until NTB-11-041 was applied to the car. Unfortunately, that firmware update was not included in the recall, and owners had to specifically ask for it. The majority of MY 2011 vehicles has inaccurate energy economy readings in CarWings as a result.

 

[Valdemar]

I'm afraid not, and thank you for your willingness to get those numbers. I think your Leaf was from the same batch like mine, and CarWings did not work correctly until NTB-11-041 was applied to the car. Unfortunately, that firmware update was not included in the recall, and owners had to specifically ask for it. The majority of MY 2011 vehicles has inaccurate energy economy readings in CarWings as a result.

Carwings shows 4.7 miles/kWh for 2012 and 4.5 for 2011 annually, which is pretty close to the dashboard reading of 4.7 for all time (checked today). Or you mean both dashboard and Carwings are off w/o this patch?

EDIT: I can charge to 100% again tonight, given wall electricity numbers from my Blink unit can we derive the average economy for today, no?

 

[surfingslovak]

Carwings shows 4.7 miles/kWh for 2012 and 4.5 for 2011 annually, which is pretty close to the dashboard reading of 4.7 for all time (checked today). Or you mean both dashboard and Carwings are off w/o this patch?

EDIT: I can charge to 100% again tonight, given wall electricity numbers from my Blink unit can we arrive at the average economy, no?

That's surprisingly close, and I would tend to trust the energy economy average from the dash. Getting the actual number from a day trip would be better, but given the variations we have seen in readings from all the instruments, it probably won't make a big difference in terms of accuracy.

My best guess is that your usable battery capacity is around 19.5 kWh. That's not bad given what we have seen from other vehicles. The data from the Blink station won't do much for us, because it factors in charging losses. We started collecting wall energy data as a rough indicator of usable battery capacity in another thread, and that's a use case I can recommend for the Blink.

 

[Valdemar]

The data from the Blink station won't do much for us, because it factors in charging losses.

Isn't the loss constant, or close enough so can be approximated by a constant for practical estimates?

 

[surfingslovak]

Isn't the loss constant, or close enough so can be approximated by a constant for practical estimates?

It is, but a 0.1 delta on a 4.7 energy economy figure represents 2%. That's a high degree of accuracy, and I'm afraid that we won't be able to get to that level of granularity with charging losses. Everyone's line voltage and other parameters are slightly different, but wall energy could be a good relative measure of usable battery capacity over time.

 

[Valdemar]

My Tuesday commute is about the same from week to week, I checked and Carwings shows about 5 miles/kWh fairly consistently when looking at historical records going 2 months back. I tend to think it is about right as I do drive more conservatively on Tuesdays because I know I need to cover 70+ miles on a single charge, and my all time dashboard average is 4.7. I'll try to remember to get dashboard numbers next week and post them here.

 

[xtremeflyer]

Anyone that has gotten rid of their Leaf in California, the CARB CVRP application says "Resale of a vehicle or return to a deal is allowed within this 36-month period if necessitated by unforeseen or unavoidable circumstances and has been given prior approval by the ARB"

Has anyone gotten approval from ARB or did you turn it in without notifying them? When you get approval, are they still asking for the prorated amount back or is this waived due to the "unforeseen or unavoidable circumstances"?

~Dave

 

[dfriedla]

Oh, I am so glad to find this thread. I've felt like such a traitor to the EV cause, but my three-month-old Leaf has gone from my dream car to a punchline.

Now that it's been in the mid-40s in Chicago, I'm getting 30 miles to a charge. (That's if, and only if, I set the car to blow cold air at me while I drive. Thank you, sir. May I have another?*)

I drive exclusively in Eco; I am certainly not a speed demon. The vast majority of my mileage is city driving, because I really don't trust it on the highway and there's no way in hell this thing would get me even halfway to Michigan at this point. I lose at least 2 bars a week while the car is off (whenever I have to park outside). Oh, and did I mention that the dealership also convinced me that I could drive this car without having a home charger? So I have to go out of my way to limp to a commercial charging station at least twice a week. None of this is the story I want to be telling about my EV. And yes, it's my only car, and I've put about 1,700 miles on it.

(Very) long story short: Salesman lied his head off to get us to sign the lease not 24 hours after my beloved 2005 Prius was totaled. While most of my driving is my 5-minute urban commute, I have to be able to do a 70, straight-shot, highway drive in one go. That's been...challenging; thus far I've only been towed once (no thanks to Nissan canceling the tow truck order without calling us to tell us they were doing so, three hours into our wait). The salesman did tell us there would be a significant drop in performance in cold weather; the thing is, he specified 14 degrees, and the line seems to be more like 50.

We are currently working with Nissan's corporate office to see if we can get out of the lease; their regional tech specialist is going to drive it next week. But in the interim, I've gone from head-over-heels to mildly irritated to full-on resentful. Nissan is doing this car no favors, and my experience would seem to suggest that the Leaf needs further testing in...well...seasons.

If, by some miracle, we do manage to give this car back, I'm thinking I'll either go with a Volt or a Prius V. If any of you have any advice, I would love to hear it.

By the way, the Toyota dealership I visited said they had a hard time finding any other dealer who would be interested in trading for the Leaf. (Taking this with a whole shaker of salt; this dealership's parent company was markedly less than reasonable when they dropped the family car off the lift a few decades back.)

*Why does this car not have a basic fan-only mode? I cannot turn the fan all the way off, because I get carsick, but why must I have the a/c on in Chicago in November?

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Oh, I am so glad to find this thread. I've felt like such a traitor to the EV cause, but my three-month-old Leaf has gone from my dream car to a punchline.

Now that it's been in the mid-40s in Chicago, I'm getting 30 miles to a charge. (That's if, and only if, I set the car to blow cold air at me while I drive. Thank you, sir. May I have another?*)

I drive exclusively in Eco; I am certainly not a speed demon. The vast majority of my mileage is city driving, because I really don't trust it on the highway and there's no way in hell this thing would get me even halfway to Michigan at this point. I lose at least 2 bars a week while the car is off (whenever I have to park outside). Oh, and did I mention that the dealership also convinced me that I could drive this car without having a home charger? So I have to go out of my way to limp to a commercial charging station at least twice a week. None of this is the story I want to be telling about my EV. And yes, it's my only car, and I've put about 1,700 miles on it.

(Very) long story short: Salesman lied his head off to get us to sign the lease not 24 hours after my beloved 2005 Prius was totaled. While most of my driving is my 5-minute urban commute, I have to be able to do a 70, straight-shot, highway drive in one go. That's been...challenging; thus far I've only been towed once (no thanks to Nissan canceling the tow truck order without calling us to tell us they were doing so, three hours into our wait). The salesman did tell us there would be a significant drop in performance in cold weather; the thing is, he specified 14 degrees, and the line seems to be more like 50.

We are currently working with Nissan's corporate office to see if we can get out of the lease; their regional tech specialist is going to drive it next week. But in the interim, I've gone from head-over-heels to mildly irritated to full-on resentful. Nissan is doing this car no favors, and my experience would seem to suggest that the Leaf needs further testing in...well...seasons.

If, by some miracle, we do manage to give this car back, I'm thinking I'll either go with a Volt or a Prius V. If any of you have any advice, I would love to hear it.

By the way, the Toyota dealership I visited said they had a hard time finding any other dealer who would be interested in trading for the Leaf. (Taking this with a whole shaker of salt; this dealership's parent company was markedly less than reasonable when they dropped the family car off the lift a few decades back.)

*Why does this car not have a basic fan-only mode? I cannot turn the fan all the way off, because I get carsick, but why must I have the a/c on in Chicago in November?

A/C does not have to be on. it depends on the mode you are in, take it off defrost or defrost/foot and you can turn it off. sorry to hear about your issues. your "30 mile range" statement needs to be reviewed.

we have the same weather right now you have and my range is about 73-74 miles gotten by slowing down to 60 mph. We have Steve who has 57,000 miles on his LEAF getting about 70 miles of range but he also drives 60 mph. cant even begin to tell you the range penalty of 70...its not a 10 mph difference...

as far as how you drive, that is up to you but you do have options

 

[surfingslovak]

*Why does this car not have a basic fan-only mode? I cannot turn the fan all the way off, because I get carsick, but why must I have the a/c on in Chicago in November?

Sorry to hear about your experience, and I hope you will get a satisfactory resolution. I'm not sure if you have heard of Phil's climate control fix. Perhaps it's something worth considering.

 

[dfriedla]

Sorry to hear about your experience, and I hope you will get a satisfactory resolution. I'm not sure if you have heard of Phil's climate control fix. Perhaps it's something worth considering.

Ooh, that is very interesting! Thank you! If we cannot get out of the lease, that would be a great option for the remaining 2.5 winters the car and I would have together.

 

[padamson1]

Oh, I am so glad to find this thread. I've felt like such a traitor to the EV cause, but my three-month-old Leaf has gone from my dream car to a punchline.

Now that it's been in the mid-40s in Chicago, I'm getting 30 miles to a charge. (That's if, and only if, I set the car to blow cold air at me while I drive. Thank you, sir. May I have another?*)

Doesn't your car have seat heaters? That should keep you warm...Depending on whether I needed to use the defroster, I got about a 5-10% hit last winter and our temp's are regularly in the 40's (but certainly nowhere near the regular cold that is winter in Chicago).

Oh, and did I mention that the dealership also convinced me that I could drive this car without having a home charger?

In your climate that's on the border of criminal. Without overnight charger access you can't pre-warm the car while plugged in and, more importantly unless Chicago's chargers are all free, if you can't charge at home you lose access to cheap electricity (fuel).

We are currently working with Nissan's corporate office to see if we can get out of the lease; their regional tech specialist is going to drive it next week.

Personally, I think you should be able to get out b/c the Salesman lied about needing a home charger. Reality may be a different story. I hope you do better than I expect.

If, by some miracle, we do manage to give this car back, I'm thinking I'll either go with a Volt or a Prius V. If any of you have any advice, I would love to hear it.

You might want to check out the new Ford C-Max Energi (the FFE is probably going to have similar climate affected issues and certainly needs a home EVSE).

 

[Reddy]

Now that it's been in the mid-40s in Chicago, I'm getting 30 miles to a charge. (That's if, and only if, I set the car to blow cold air at me while I drive. Thank you, sir. May I have another?*)

Wow, I can't believe this. It was 40F yesterday here. I had an extra errand and drove about 20 miles on 4 battery bars, while blasting the heat at 85F. This was after not charging for 2 days and having the car at 6 battery bars. I wasn't even worried cause I knew I would have plenty for another 15-20 miles if I needed it since the last bar gives twice the distance.

Reddy