The Battery Replacement Thread

[mwalsh]

I also got the "old" battery. But this policy does not seem to make sense if they plan to provide vouchers for a later "lizard" battery replacement. Why not just replace these batteries with the lizard batteries. Are they trying to get rid of old inventory or could the "lizard" batteries be more expensive to manufacturer ?, unknown performance for the lizard battery?

If I had to guess, it would be that the '11/'12 retrofit kits are not in manufacture yet.

 

[Stanton]

If I had to guess, it would be that the '11/'12 retrofit kits are not in manufacture yet.

If I had to guess, it would be that they are "flushing" the existing pack inventory; from a business perspective you can't expect them to "eat" the remaining battery packs when they're giving them away for "free" (under warranty). However, there will come a time when the (old) inventory has been depleted and they will ONLY have "hot pack" inventory left; again, from a business perspective it doesn't make sense to maintain *2* different battery module types. The only question is: how long it will take to exhaust the (old) inventory? 1 month? 6 months? 12 months?

 

[myleaf]

I also got the "old" battery. But this policy does not seem to make sense if they plan to provide vouchers for a later "lizard" battery replacement. Why not just replace these batteries with the lizard batteries. Are they trying to get rid of old inventory or could the "lizard" batteries be more expensive to manufacturer ?, unknown performance for the lizard battery?

If I had to guess, it would be that the '11/'12 retrofit kits are not in manufacture yet.

It was mentioned that we can go to a dealer today and get the 2015 lizard battery. Seems to imply that the kits are available.

 

[mwalsh]

If I had to guess, it would be that the '11/'12 retrofit kits are not in manufacture yet.

If I had to guess, it would be that they are "flushing" the existing pack inventory; from a business perspective you can't expect them to "eat" the remaining battery packs when they're giving them away for "free" (under warranty). However, there will come a time when the (old) inventory has been depleted and they will ONLY have "hot pack" inventory left; again, from a business perspective it doesn't make sense to maintain *2* different battery module types. The only question is: how long it will take to exhaust the (old) inventory? 1 month? 6 months? 12 months?

That only computes if there is local inventory (and it appears there is at least some out of a warehouse down south - TX?). All JDM LEAFs use the original pack, so even if there is an abundance of inventory in Japan, it won't go to seed.

 

[myleaf]

If I had to guess, it would be that the '11/'12 retrofit kits are not in manufacture yet.

If I had to guess, it would be that they are "flushing" the existing pack inventory; from a business perspective you can't expect them to "eat" the remaining battery packs when they're giving them away for "free" (under warranty). However, there will come a time when the (old) inventory has been depleted and they will ONLY have "hot pack" inventory left; again, from a business perspective it doesn't make sense to maintain *2* different battery module types. The only question is: how long it will take to exhaust the (old) inventory? 1 month? 6 months? 12 months?

That only computes if there is local inventory (and it appears there is at least some out of a warehouse down south - TX?). All JDM LEAFs use the original pack, so even if there is an abundance of inventory in Japan, it won't go to seed.

I am really wondering why especially individuals in AZ will not be given the Lizard Battery. To use your terms "it does not compute". Why not install lizard batteries in these special cases just to get real life data. Save the original batteries for replacement in cooler areas, or ship them to Japan to be used.

 

[garygid]

What warranty does one get in the Capacity Warranty replacement battery pack?

What warranty on a purchased replacement?

 

[Bob]

"I am really wondering why especially individuals in AZ will not be given the Lizard Battery. "

They may get it and not know it. Nissan may be smarter than we think. We can only hope...

Bob

 

[Limey]

I'm sure another thread has this as well....


http://www.edmunds.com/car-news/nissan-prices-leaf-battery-replacement-at-5500.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[leafkabob]

There is a lot of talk in this thread and in others where folks refer to getting a "new replacement battery" under warranty. Nissan is currently replacing 4 bar batteries with new ones, but I wonder if that might change at some point. Would it benefit them to take off-lease cars and remove the batteries for use as warranty replacements, replacing those with new batteries? The off-lease cars could then be sold as used leafs with full capacity batteries.

Don't know if that is likely or not, but Nissan was clear about not guaranteeing a NEW battery, only a battery with more capacity.

 

[myleaf]

What warranty does one get in the Capacity Warranty replacement battery pack?

What warranty on a purchased replacement?

My understanding is that for a purchased replacement (lizard) battery: 8 year 100,000 miles for defects, 5 year 60,000 9 bar capacity warranty

Replacement warranty battery pack - remainder if the original 5 year 60,000 miles 9 bar capacity warranty

 

[mwalsh]

My understanding is that for a purchased replacement (lizard) battery: 8 year 100,000 miles for defects, 5 year 60,000 9 bar capacity warranty

Replacement warranty battery pack - remainder if the original 5 year 60,000 miles 9 bar capacity warranty

+1. That would be my understanding. Though you'd also get the remainder of the workmanship and materials warranty on the warranty replacement pack.

 

[Limey]

My understanding is that for a purchased replacement (lizard) battery: 8 year 100,000 miles for defects, 5 year 60,000 9 bar capacity warranty

Replacement warranty battery pack - remainder if the original 5 year 60,000 miles 9 bar capacity warranty

I would get a little salty if I bought a new battery and it came with no warranty. but, hopefully like Prius batteries, the prices will come screaming down.

 

[myleaf]

There is a lot of talk in this thread and in others where folks refer to getting a "new replacement battery" under warranty. Nissan is currently replacing 4 bar batteries with new ones, but I wonder if that might change at some point. Would it benefit them to take off-lease cars and remove the batteries for use as warranty replacements, replacing those with new batteries? The off-lease cars could then be sold as used leafs with full capacity batteries.

Don't know if that is likely or not, but Nissan was clear about not guaranteeing a NEW battery, only a battery with more capacity.

You are right. Nissan just needs to replace the battery with a 9 bar battery. But Andy Palmer at his 1st meeting in AZ mentioned that Nissan would not want to be changing out batteries multiple times during the warranty period.

At the moment, it seems Nissan is being very generous with the replacement batteries. Maybe this will be the general case.

 

[brettcgb]

I also got the "old" battery. But this policy does not seem to make sense if they plan to provide vouchers for a later "lizard" battery replacement. Why not just replace these batteries with the lizard batteries. Are they trying to get rid of old inventory or could the "lizard" batteries be more expensive to manufacturer ?, unknown performance for the lizard battery?

If I had to guess, it would be that the '11/'12 retrofit kits are not in manufacture yet.

"Lizard" batteries represent a change - that makes them more expensive. I'm thinking they're flushing their supply pipeline. That includes built stock and stock still in construction. Once their pipeline is clear, then everyone is likely to get lizard replacement batteries. New cars are likely being built with lizard batteries.

 

[brettcgb]

There is a lot of talk in this thread and in others where folks refer to getting a "new replacement battery" under warranty. Nissan is currently replacing 4 bar batteries with new ones, but I wonder if that might change at some point.

Don't know if that is likely or not, but Nissan was clear about not guaranteeing a NEW battery, only a battery with more capacity.

You are right. Nissan just needs to replace the battery with a 9 bar battery. But Andy Palmer at his 1st meeting in AZ mentioned that Nissan would not want to be changing out batteries multiple times during the warranty period.

At the moment, it seems Nissan is being very generous with the replacement batteries. Maybe this will be the general case.

+1 (Andy Palmer)

I wouldn't want to be replacing battery packs every 6 months, just to meet the "9 bar" requirement. Perhaps, dealers would swap out dead cells as electric cars become more common. On second thought, that's just as much labor as outright replacement. ++1 (Andy Palmer)

I'm thinking Nissan will be taking those old, tired battery packs, discarding dead cells, then using the rest to build larger capacity packs. These "new" packs would then be sold for non-traction uses i.e. utility scale energy storage, or data center UPS batteries. While no longer useful for traction, they could have a second life as stationary battery packs with less demanding specifications in an easier to maintain environment.

You know that demand exists with solar and wind power sources coming online.

 

[bbrowncods]

Nissan is in the business of selling cars, not recycling batteries. I doubt they will pull batteries out of old leases, ship them to a central facility, take them apart, test, sort, reassemble, introduce into the supply system as a different part number (used), ship, reinstall, and test, and hope it lasts until the end of the warranty, all for saving a couple of bars on a warranty that they might have to do again. The risk is too high. They make money on warranty claims by writing off the cost as a business expense.

 

[TomT]

In Phoenix we were told that the lizard battery is "only slight more expensive" than the old battery, so it does not seem that cost would be the driving consideration...

"Lizard" batteries represent a change - that makes them more expensive.

 

[brettcgb]

Nissan is in the business of selling cars, not recycling batteries.

And yet, they're going to have tired batteries to deal with. Just like they have to deal with worn tires, used engine oil, and failed 12V batteries.

I doubt they will pull batteries out of old leases, ship them to a central facility, take them apart, test, sort, reassemble, introduce into the supply system as a different part number (used), ship, reinstall, and test, and hope it lasts until the end of the warranty, all for saving a couple of bars on a warranty that they might have to do again. The risk is too high.

I agree about 90%. They will pull batteries for warranty replacements, and to replace End-Of-Life (EOL) batteries. None of these cells will be going back into vehicles. What to do with all these tired batteries?

Nissan doesn't have to do anything more with the old battery packs beyond dispose of them somehow. That will probably include selling them to an interested third party.

The third party, a recycler/rebuilder receives whole battery packs and does all the disassembly, testing, sorting, disposes of dead cells, and uses the rest to build packs for stationary use. Working cells go back into service as stationary packs that likely wouldn't be recognized as old Leaf batteries.

This is waay off topic. I'm don[connection lost]

 

[brettcgb]

"Lizard" batteries represent a change - that makes them more expensive.

In Phoenix we were told that the lizard [hot] battery is "only slight more expensive" than the old battery, so it does not seem that cost would be the driving consideration...

It's not the small cost increase of the new batteries that's the problem. It's the long pipeline full of the previous generation batteries.

I've seen where a manufacturer has a pipeline full of parts with a known (and published) problem, and had a new design with fixes ready to go. As the manufacturer, what do you do? You've already stopped production of the old parts. Do you discard the pipeline contents and take the enormous expense hit, or do you sell off the pipeline contents before releasing the new design? (I don't like it, but I understand why you sell off the contents first.)

It makes sense to use the hot batteries in new vehicles, and the original batteries as warranty replacements - that meets the requirements for the warranty while minimizing expenses, and tends to reduce warranty replacements due to heat in new vehicles.

I don't think warranty replacements will be using hot batteries for at least a couple months, but would be surprised if that continued for a year.

 

[TimLee]

I'm sure another thread has this as well....


http://www.edmunds.com/car-news/nissan-prices-leaf-battery-replacement-at-5500.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Appreciate the link, had not seen it.
Edmunds is usually pretty accurate.
But surely they can do better than the following badly imprecise statement:

... Most early Leaf owners have seen their cars lose no more than 10 percent or so of battery capacity so far.
But it has been an issue for Leaf owners in very hot climates, such as Arizona. And it will become more of an issue as early buyers pile more and more miles on their cars. ...

The lithium-ion batteries used in the Leaf and other EVs diminish in capacity over time as they are continually drained and recharged. The cycle degrades the battery's capacity to store and release energy.

A large % of early 2011 LEAF drivers have lost way more than 10%.
And they seem to infer that heat and cycles (miles) are the only issues.
Time degradation is a significant never ending degrader of capacity no matter how few cycles you put on the battery .
Heat makes it much faster. Cycles makes it a bit faster.
More quick charging increases heat some.
Overall fairly close Edmunds. But you can do a lot better than the part I quoted!