The “range–extended” EV (BEVx) considered

[edatoakrun]

And with that I concur; they shouldn't.

I think the reason for that is to keep more traditional hybrids from qualifying as BEVx...

Counter productive, IMO, because this will require a higher kW output range-extender engine, than is necessary to extend BEV range.

Plenty of other ways to define the BEVx catagory, without this regulatory demand, IMO.

 

[edatoakrun]

...It's certainly not required that the car actually "limp" when in charge sustaining mode.

I have to climb 1500 ft in the last 7 miles to get home.

My BEVx would be obstructing traffic by "limping" up this hill, even if it had a 30 kW range extender.

On the other hand, if I could simply turn on a much smaller, cheaper, lighter, 5 to 10kW engine earlier, to pre-charge my BEVx battery pack, there would be no "limping" required.

 

[Herm]

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2012/01/bevx-20120129.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"ARB staff suggested that the BEVx market may appeal to drivers who would not otherwise consider a BEV with the same range. Since staff considers these vehicles full function BEVs with short range APUs, it stressed the importance of having the minimum range for eligibility be equivalent to full function BEVs in the marketplace.
Basic criteria for these vehicle include:
1. the APU range is equal to or less than the all-electric range;"

So they want to limit the fuel supply of the range extender or APU as they call it.. Sounds to me like a good application for a H2 fuel cell with a small tank.. if you are made of money

Its an odd thing from CARB, suited for the odd people of California.

 

[Ingineer]

CARB seems to always screw it up! They keep squashing innovation!

-Phil

 

[JohnOver]

Here are some pictures I took at the event Phil:

Apparently Yahoo liked this photo so much that they stole it...
http://autos.yahoo.com/blogs/motora...ost-evs-towable-turbine-210057167.html?page=2. Aren't they supposed to at least quote their source?

 

[TonyWilliams]

Or give a photo credit. Not required, unless your photo were copyrighted.

 

[JohnOver]

...unless your photo were copyrighted.

How does one do that?

 

[TonyWilliams]

...unless your photo were copyrighted.

How does one do that?

Not sure exactly.

 

[Danal]

...unless your photo were copyrighted.

How does one do that?

Not sure exactly.

Your photos are automatically copyright to you, the photographer, the instant you click the shutter. It is up to you to defend that copyright. No one will do it for you, or even help.

More info here, including what rights you have at the moment of shutter, if you should choose to register them, how to defend them, etc, etc, etc. http://www.editorialphoto.com/copyright/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[JohnOver]

Your photos are automatically copyright to you, the photographer, the instant you click the shutter. It is up to you to defend that copyright. No one will do it for you, or even help.

Thanks!

 

[N952JL]

This tread has been very quite lately. In the near future, range extenders will be the staying point for the BEV. When you retire and down size, you don't want multible vehicles, and your car will need the range to go where ever you need to go. Even with QC there is no way I can drive a leaf 600 miles in two days. I needed to do that this past weekend. With a good Range Extender trailer I could have.

for years trains have been using Dissel/Electric engines to haul freight cars. I assume that was the most effient way for them. If that is so, why can't we have a dissel electric motor home? Think about it. Every motor home has at least a small generator. Why not one big enough to keep batteries charged and provide enough energy to drive the motor home. Might be cheaper than the dissel/gas rigs being driven south to Fl all winter long.

 

[Ingineer]

This tread has been very quite lately. In the near future, range extenders will be the staying point for the BEV. When you retire and down size, you don't want multible vehicles, and your car will need the range to go where ever you need to go. Even with QC there is no way I can drive a leaf 600 miles in two days. I needed to do that this past weekend. With a good Range Extender trailer I could have.

for years trains have been using Dissel/Electric engines to haul freight cars. I assume that was the most effient way for them. If that is so, why can't we have a dissel electric motor home? Think about it. Every motor home has at least a small generator. Why not one big enough to keep batteries charged and provide enough energy to drive the motor home. Might be cheaper than the dissel/gas rigs being driven south to Fl all winter long.

There is definitely no reason you could not build a Hybrid motorhome. It's simply a matter of cost. It has some additional attractive advantages, one is that you can have a quite power source for the house loads by adding an inverter to the battery pack. Also, you'd be able to plug in overnight at an RV park and use up to 12kW to recharge your pack.

Once large format battery prices drop, I suspect we will see this on the market.

Or, if someone really wants it now and has a lot of extra disposable income, I'll be happy to build one! =)

-Phil

 

[N952JL]

There is definitely no reason you could not build a Hybrid motorhome. It's simply a matter of cost. It has some additional attractive advantages, one is that you can have a quite power source for the house loads by adding an inverter to the battery pack. Also, you'd be able to plug in overnight at an RV park and use up to 12kW to recharge your pack.

Once large format battery prices drop, I suspect we will see this on the market.

Or, if someone really wants it now and has a lot of extra disposable income, I'll be happy to build one! =)

-Phil

Phil, would it be cheaper to operate than the current rigs? I'm looking at cost of fuel vs electricity/fuel for generator?

=Joe

 

[Ingineer]

Phil, would it be cheaper to operate than the current rigs? I'm looking at cost of fuel vs electricity/fuel for generator?

=Joe

The beauty of a hybrid is that you could install a much smaller diesel engine which would be sized to cover the base highway load. The batteries and electric motor would handle acceleration, passing, etc. Normally you need a much larger engine which is less efficient and heavy.

Just an off the cuff guess is that you could easily improve mileage by 20%.

-Phil

 

[hill]

'60mph is the Minimum'? Last time I checked, many, if not most freeways say MAX speed pulling a trailer is 55.

With raised tire psi, flat ground, no wind, my Leaf's kw meter seems to read appx 6kw's being used at about 55mph. If you've ever driven CA's highway 1, with all the looky-lou's you're doing WAY less than half that speed. . . . . . . . . snip

I concur with the assessment that you must be mistaken about these numbers. There is no way you can go 55mph and only consume 6kw unless you are driving down a steep hill! . . . . . . . . . . . snip

I yield to your conclusion. However, my guess-timation is simply based off of this:

Check the time stamps on the pic's. Maybe someone can 'splain. My work place altitude (Anaheim CA) is 138 feet above sea level. Driving home, it's 19.5 miles, south/east on the 5 freeway. I get off work each day at 1:30PM and I'm in the Leaf going home by 1:35PM - 1:40PM. Altitude at home is about 335 feet. Darn near flat drive the whole way. I took the pictures at one of the Leafs meter's highest readout - (going 55) and one of it's lowest readouts - both with the cruise control set at 55mph:

In this second picture, 8 minutes after the 1st picture, I'd switched from 'ECO' mode, to regular mode - but you can see the energy consumption readout is even lower than the 1st image ... thus, causing me to estimate my consumption at the (apparently) wildly low rate of 6kw at 55mph. To me, the energy consumption LOOKS like it's no higher than about 9kw at 55, and about 4kW in the other picture. There's definitely no steep hills . . . so . . . iduno.

 

[Herm]

If your car consumed 6kW at 55mph you would have a range of 200 miles with a full charge.. make sure your speedometer is not set to kilometers instead of miles

 

[hill]

If your car consumed 6kW at 55mph you would have a range of 200 miles with a full charge.. make sure your speedometer is not set to kilometers instead of miles

Obviously it's not set for kMeters by looking at the picture posted. Obviously at acceleration, we use more ... appx 20kw ... obviously when 'she-who-must-be-obeyed' drives, the power gets wasted ... heater use, rain/wind, etc kill the avrage. That said, you're right about capacity vs use. The other obvious thing now is our guage is unreliable.

 

[AndyH]

Phil, would it be cheaper to operate than the current rigs? I'm looking at cost of fuel vs electricity/fuel for generator?

=Joe

The beauty of a hybrid is that you could install a much smaller diesel engine which would be sized to cover the base highway load. The batteries and electric motor would handle acceleration, passing, etc. Normally you need a much larger engine which is less efficient and heavy.

Just an off the cuff guess is that you could easily improve mileage by 20%.

-Phil

There have been Class-8 (semi) hybrid tractors on the road since 2007, though the improvement is about 10%. I'll bet one of these could be dropped into a motorhome fairly easily - Eaton has a system for school buses...

http://www.eaton.com/Eaton/ProductsServices/ProductsbyCategory/HybridPower/index.htm
http://www.thepetestore.com/news-detail.php?id=15
http://www.trucktrend.com/features/...c_hybrid_class_8_tractor_prototype/index.html

 

[edatoakrun]

Another variation, this one an oil-burner.

I suspect this one will not be available in my price range...

Over the last month, Pininfarina has released several teaser images of a concept car called Cambiano that it will display at the Geneva Motor Show next week....

Perhaps the most interesting part of the Cambiano is its drivetrain. It is a plug-in hybrid that is equipped with a range-extender, a concept that is becoming increasingly common in the auto industry, but the Cambiano strays from the path. It is equipped with four electric motors mounted in the wheel hubs; each one is rated at 60 kilowatts, which equates to about 80 horsepower. The range extender is a diesel-powered microturbine mounted under the hood.

Pininfarina claims that the Cambiano will hit 62 miles per hour from a stop in just 4.2 seconds, and go on to a top speed of 170 miles per hour. The battery pack has an autonomy of over 124 miles...

Photo gallery at link:
http://www.leftlanenews.com/pininfarina-cambiano.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[N952JL]

Another variation, this one an oil-burner.

I suspect this one will not be available in my price range...

Over the last month, Pininfarina has released several teaser images of a concept car called Cambiano that it will display at the Geneva Motor Show next week....

Perhaps the most interesting part of the Cambiano is its drivetrain. It is a plug-in hybrid that is equipped with a range-extender, a concept that is becoming increasingly common in the auto industry, but the Cambiano strays from the path. It is equipped with four electric motors mounted in the wheel hubs; each one is rated at 60 kilowatts, which equates to about 80 horsepower. The range extender is a diesel-powered microturbine mounted under the hood.

Pininfarina claims that the Cambiano will hit 62 miles per hour from a stop in just 4.2 seconds, and go on to a top speed of 170 miles per hour. The battery pack has an autonomy of over 124 miles...

Photo gallery at link:
http://www.leftlanenews.com/pininfarina-cambiano.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The microturbine is a "Bladon Jet (http://www.bladonjets.com/geneva-motor-show.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false

They claim it is a 50kW micro turbine genset which will run off almost anything, including LP and weighs only 40KiloGrams (88.2 lbs). You Tube has several video clips of one running. They are quite small but I haven't seen one with the "genset" added on.