So, owners what range are you getting ?

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apvbguy said:
LEAFfan said:
Once again, you missed the point of my Efficiency Run.
I fully understand the point of it, you are proving that if you make the batteries drain or discharge slowly you can get high range out of the car.
however what you call "efficiency" is quite meaningless, a car that is limited to an average speed of 15 mph is not a product too many people want.
how about instead of focusing on how to get the most distance while using the least juice people focused on getting the best performance for the least kwh consumption, solve that and you'll be on to something

No, you obviously don't understand the point of it because that isn't the point. It wasn't the point last year either. To say 'efficiency' is meaningless means that your post is also meaningless.
LOL, you're unbelievable. Your last sentence, I've already been there, done that. It's so obvious to me that you are clueless about most things pertaining to electric driving.
 
LEAFfan said:
No, you obviously don't understand the point of it because that isn't the point. It wasn't the point last year either. To say 'efficiency' is meaningless means that your post is also meaningless.
LOL, you're unbelievable. Your last sentence, I've already been there, done that. It's so obvious to me that you are clueless about most things pertaining to electric driving.
this is real rich!

clueless? maybe I am clueless about driving at walking speeds to achieve remarkable battery usage, if some nerd wants to spend his time on pointless experiments good for him, I rather remain clueless, spending my time on this board arguing with arrogant twits.
 
apvbguy, cut out the name calling and stop stirring thing up. You can do that in OT if you want.

Also, cut down the font size of your sig - highly distracting.
 
apvbguy said:
LEAFfan said:
Once again, you missed the point of my Efficiency Run.
I fully understand the point of it, you are proving that if you make the batteries drain or discharge slowly you can get high range out of the car.
however what you call "efficiency" is quite meaningless, a car that is limited to an average speed of 15 mph is not a product too many people want.
how about instead of focusing on how to get the most distance while using the least juice people focused on getting the best performance for the least kwh consumption, solve that and you'll be on to something

your argument over efficiency seems just a bit meaningless considering his results and you call me obtuse?
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
your argument over efficiency seems just a bit meaningless considering his results and you call me obtuse?
what argument is that?
is certainly isn't about efficiency!
could it be about experiments about how far you can travel on a charge if you only go a bit above walking speed?
 
Not wishing to engage in any of the name calling, but I agree with apvbguy. LEAFfan's accomplishment is a science project, and while I'm sure that he enjoyed doing it, it has no practical value that I can see. I've known people (definitely not including me) to ride double centuries in better times. Anyone that uses a 3 to 4,000 lb. car to transport a 200 lb. person who says their main concern is maximizing energy efficiency seems to be missing the forest for the trees. People don't use cars because they want the most energy-efficient means of travel, they use them because they provide maximum comfort and convenience, which includes faster transport than the other means available to them for roughly the same price.

I'm sure LEAFfan could get to 200 miles if he was willing to get out and push his car for twelves miles, but really, where's the relevance of this to anything approaching normal driving? Perhaps we should join the Tesla crowd and see how many kindergartners we can stuff in a Leaf - it has about the same practical value as knowing that someone who is willing to drive slower than I often ride my bike can go 188 miles in a Leaf.
 
just got it 3 days ago.
1st day : battery is fully charged, the gauge shows 93 miles. Drove it for the whole day with AC on for 76ish miles, came home with still 30 miles on the gauge. B + ECO MODE was on all the time.
2nd day : We turned off the B mode and leave the ECO mode only. It only drives around 65ish miles and the battery was flat by the time we got to nissan dealership to charge the quick charge 440.

Today, we drive it with B and ECO mode at all time now. We don't want to risk being stranded like yesterday...haha...it's not 115 miles like the advertised sticker. It is probably less than 50 miles the moment you turn off B and ECO mode all together...but it is more fun that way... torque is pretty good when all mode is turned off...hehe ...
 
awidiarto said:
it's not 115 miles like the advertised sticker.
115 miles range is not advertised anywhere - only 75 miles is listed on the EPA sticker.

Looks like you have both exceeded and fallen a bit short as is expected. Your mileage may vary.
 
awidiarto said:
it's not 115 miles like the advertised sticker.
...And one more person falls into the trap of the difference between range and MPGe. When a salesman does that, the answer is to point at the Monroney sticker on an ICE and say, "You mean with this car I have to stop at a gas station every 33 miles?"

Ray
 
GRA said:
Not wishing to engage in any of the name calling, but I agree with apvbguy. LEAFfan's accomplishment is a science project, and while I'm sure that he enjoyed doing it, it has no practical value that I can see.
newownermnl


Guy, I have to disagree with you and others on one point: the practical implications of LEAFfan's run. He has amply demonstrated that slowing down and adjusting your driving style can significantly extend your range. This knowledge can come in handy when your EV is running low on charge. As Tony and others have said before, it could make all the difference in someone's day. Imagine that your LEAF has just hit the low or very low battery warning. If you didn't know how much usable capacity you had left, and how to drive efficiently, you could easily end up on a tow truck. Depending on the time of the day and the local weather conditions, this could end up being a considerable waste of time.

I have noticed that many LEAF drivers adjust their driving style in exchange for more range. I did that too. That said, there were voices, which have religiously defended the often-quoted 38 mph as the most efficient speed for the LEAF without understanding how exactly this figure was obtained. LEAFfan has shown that the LEAF can go 30 miles after the low battery warning. All it takes is some skill and knowledge. Yes, all this could be moot when the typical EV can travel 200 miles on a charge, and there are QCs on every corner. I, too, look forward to that day, but we are not there yet.

That said, I understand and appreciate your point, nobody wants EVs to have a stigma of car that doesn't go very fast and very far. For a lighthearted and amusing conclusion, please recall that the fist speeding fine ever was reportedly issued to an EV driver in 1899. What was his crime you ask? Going 12 mph when the speed limit was 8 mph.
 
surfingslovak said:
LEAFfan has shown that the LEAF can go 30 miles after the low battery warning. All it takes is some skill and knowledge.
Actually, it takes much more than that. Other requirements that I can think of off the top of my head are:

- A fairly undegreaded battery pack
- A very well-balanced battery pack
- Very flat terrain (or traveling downhill)
- Very low wind (or a tailwind)
- Sufficiently high temperatures
- Dry, paved roads
- Overinflated tires (I'm guessing)
- A meter to read SOC is also very helpful (according to LEAFfan)

I applaud LEAFfan's awesome accomplishment and I appreciate what he has taught us about hypermiling in the LEAF. It has been very useful to me personally. But I do not think it is wise to suggest that people can expect to go 30 miles after LBW armed with only "some skill and knowledge". Frankly, I do not think it is possible to drive 188 miles on a single charge on the roads around here due to the terrain. It would probably require staying in a flat parking lot or on a racetrack. Phoenix is much flatter which makes it more suitable for such an accomplishment.
 
OK, that's fair. I should have included a disclaimer, perhaps something alone these lines: please note that what I said above is not meant as a blanket statement recommending to new or even experienced EV owners that one should be able to drive 30 miles beyond the low battery warning irrespective of several contributing factors and conditions.

That said, let me also add that I have driven 21 miles after getting the low battery warning myself. My overall range loss was about 10% at that time, and since I loaned out my Gid meter, I relied solely on dash instruments to gauge how far I had left to go until turtle mode. While I appreciate the knowledge and attention to detail on this forum, I believe that the point I tried to make above stands.

LEAFfan has demonstrated that slowing down and adjusting your driving style will extend your range significantly. Knowing this can come in handy. Several forum members have already benefitted from it.
 
After reading this thread I checked my Leaf last night. I commute on surface streets so my average speed was 22mph. I heard the average speed of traffic in New York city is around 11mph. For me knowing how the leaf battery behaves at lower speeds is much more useful than highway estimates.

When I had a destination across town last week I picked the route through the city rather than taking the highway. Google maps told me I was adding five minutes to my trip but it was worth it to me. Conserving range was only one of the reasons, the Leaf is so quiet that I enjoy cruising the city streets with the windows down listening to the urban sounds around me. I'm part of the street scene now and not locked into my own little bubble.
 
surfingslovak said:
GRA said:
Not wishing to engage in any of the name calling, but I agree with apvbguy. LEAFfan's accomplishment is a science project, and while I'm sure that he enjoyed doing it, it has no practical value that I can see.
newownermnl


Guy, I have to disagree with you and others on one point: the practical implications of LEAFfan's run. He has amply demonstrated that slowing down and adjusting your driving style can significantly extend your range. This knowledge can come in handy when your EV is running low on charge. As Tony and others have said before, it could make all the difference in someone's day. Imagine that your LEAF has just hit the low or very low battery warning. If you didn't know how much usable capacity you had left, and how to drive efficiently, you could easily end up on a tow truck. Depending on the time of the day and the local weather conditions, this could end up being a considerable waste of time.

I have noticed that many LEAF drivers adjust their driving style in exchange for more range. I did that too. That said, there were voices, which have religiously defended the often-quoted 38 mph as the most efficient speed for the LEAF without understanding how exactly this figure was obtained. LEAFfan has shown that the LEAF can go 30 miles after the low battery warning. All it takes is some skill and knowledge. Yes, all this could be moot when the typical EV can travel 200 miles on a charge, and there are QCs on every corner. I, too, look forward to that day, but we are not there yet.

That said, I understand and appreciate your point, nobody wants EVs to have a stigma of car that doesn't go very fast and very far. For a lighthearted and amusing conclusion, please recall that the fist speeding fine ever was reportedly issued to an EV driver in 1899. What was his crime you ask? Going 12 mph when the speed limit was 8 mph.
The thing is, we already knew that slowing down (to as low as 12 mph) would boost the range; Tony provided that info in his range chart a long time ago. And we already knew that using hypermiling techniques would also boost the range. So what new information has LEAFfan generated (other than bragging rights), beyond the fact that he is willing to drive slowly for far longer than just about anyone, and/or that he's excellent at hypermiling (which we already knew)? The 100 mile/200km (and now 300km) thread exists for reporting such extremes of performance. Distance below LBW could be measured by depleting the battery to that point and _then_ seeing how far you can drive, so there's no need to do it from a full battery, and there will always be variations between individual cars, batteries and drivers in any case.

To me, knowing that someone can go 188 miles in a LEAF if they average 18 mph has about as much practical value as using BEVs for the BC2BC - we know they can both be done, but no one's going to do so except as an adventure. As soon as Tesla completes their supercharger network along I-5 (this year they claim), BC2BC will become practical and even routine for owners of the S and follow-ons, and the adventure will go away, at least for them. No one stays excited about being able to drone along on the interstate for hour after hour. And that's how it should be, if we want BEVs to become mainstream - unnoticed parts of the transportation background, with expected and unremarked capabilities.
 
Guy, last year I entered an Efficiency Rally because one of the members who had a Tesla wanted to know which BEV could get the best efficiency in 100 miles with or without charging. The BEVs were Tesla Roadsters, LEAFs, iMiEVs, and a Smart ED. I barely beat the SED, 8.4 to 8.3. This year, the Tesla S was included, plus the other BEVs. Since I wasn't able to enter/compete this year, I decided on my own to break the previous record and compare efficiency with the other BEVs. After 100 miles this time, I had 8.7m/kWh on the dash.
 
GRA said:
The thing is, we already knew that slowing down (to as low as 12 mph) would boost the range; Tony provided that info in his range chart a long time ago. And we already knew that using hypermiling techniques would also boost the range. So what new information has LEAFfan generated (other than bragging rights), beyond the fact that he is willing to drive slowly for far longer than just about anyone, and/or that he's excellent at hypermiling (which we already knew)?
Guy, yes, certainly. But let's not forget that there are folks that are a bit more stubborn about the 38 mph thing and claim that it's meaningless if you archieved 8 or 10 m/kWh over the course of 10 miles. To them, the overall most efficient speed is still 38 mph, because someone at Nissan said so, and nothing short of an official press release will convince them otherwise. In this case, it can be beneficial to go the distance and demostrate that a speed somewhere between 12 and 15 mph is indeed the best, despite parasitic and accessory loads. The end result speaks for itself: 188 miles. Try doing that at 38 mph. Without wanting to argue about it, to me, this is like guessometer numbers or the mythical 100 miles of range. Unless you go the distance, you won't be able to disprove some of these preconceived notions and beliefs. I agree that this is likely done out of a sense of passion for the technology and as an adventure. Personally, I see nothing wrong with that, but I would certainly not advocate that average consumers should engage in similar activities. I don't think that this is giving EVs a bad name. Remember the first airplanes? They held more promise than inherent practical value for the everyday person.
 
GRA said:
... BC2BC will become practical and even routine for owners of the S and follow-ons, and the adventure will go away, at least for them. No one stays excited about being able to drone along on the interstate for hour after hour. And that's how it should be, if we want BEVs to become mainstream - unnoticed parts of the transportation background, with expected and unremarked capabilities.

This "Debbie Downer" for BC2BC only comes from existing and former EV drivers who are typically the "old guard" of EV's. The general public (who this is supposed to appeal to) is actually quite excited overall, both last year and this year. We will get a lot of the great unwashed masses exposed to EV's, both through TV and print, and up-close-and-personal.

The "mainstream and unnoticed" current oil burning transportation devices with millions in use and 100,000 plus refueling stations still do all sorts of rallies, races, etc. Two and four wheel. Clearly, you would find no use for any of that, either. Check out the Iron Butt Rally*** if you want your head to explode, and yet we've have motorcycles for over 100 years. Guys pay $2000 to ride on public highways for 11 days and 11,000 miles. There's a waiting list.

When the Cannonball Rally started May 3, 1971, we had been successfully driving oil burning cars cross country for almost 70 years, when 1903, H. Nelson Jackson and Sewall K. Crocker completed the first motor trip across the United States in their oil burning car. Thankfully, folks with vision and adventure tend to just make things happen. Others sit around and complain.


*** The 2013 Iron Butt Rally will take off in early July 2013 from the Northeast. Once again, it will be a challenge not only to your riding skills but also your ability to map a successful route in order to maximize points and solve the time/distance equation. In no particular order, the checkpoints will be in the west the east and finish back in the Northeast. Exact locations, dates and times will be announced at a later date. Please note: the rally will start and finish at the same location.

As in 2005, 2007, and 2009 there will be a minimum number of points required in order to qualify as a finisher. In other words, it is possible that you will ride for 11 days, not obtain enough points and NOT qualify as a finisher. Important: There will not be the opportunity to be a checkpoint-to-checkpoint rider. If this finds you shaking in your boots, remember the Iron Butt Rally is for the World's Toughest Riders.

Positions are extremely limited and, unfortunately, not everyone who seeks to enter the rally will be able to find a spot. We wish we could accommodate more applicants, but unfortunately, we have limited facilities and staff to conduct the rally. The entry fee for the 2013 Iron Butt Rally will be $1,850 ($2150 two-up)(U.S.Funds) payable in two parts. If you are drawn for the rally (information on how to enter the drawing follows) to hold your position the initial deposit of $700 due January 15, 2012; and the remaining $1050 ($1350 two-up) fee due January 15, 2013.
 
LEAFfan said:
Guy, last year I entered an Efficiency Rally because one of the members who had a Tesla wanted to know which BEV could get the best efficiency in 100 miles with or without charging.
How as efficiency measured? Did everything rely on dash measurements?
 
(Hope I'm not echoing some other post already...)
LEAFfan said:
I drove 188 miles on one charge today with 8.8m/kW h, relatively flat terrain, little wind, 75F to start, and hit Turtle at 8 'Gids (Sim). I may upload the photos tomorrow.
Geez! I wonder what kind of numbers you could get on a Rav4 EV.

If you can wring those numbers out of the Leaf, you'll definitely dethrone the current Rav4 EV range queen.
 
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