Santa Monica Nissan Screwed me (and others?)

[darelldd]

Just so you know, EVDRIVER has prolly done 10X more for the advancement of EVs than Paul Scott. Yet, they are both superstars in their own ways.

Now that would impress the heck out of me. It should impress the heck out of anybody. What I don't understand is how anybody who's done that much work toward EV advancement could NOT know who Paul Scott is or what he has done for the modern EV movement. The EV advocacy community just isn't that big! I would love to know EVdriver's name.

 

[GeekEV]

EVDRIVER said, "What did your sales person say, please don't tell me it's the guy who was the EV advocate, that would really be the icing on the cake." and further "Perhaps he has gone to the dark side."

I take offense at these comments. You don't know me, and for you to make these kinds of disparaging comments about me in a public forum when you have no basis for doing so borders on liable. For the record, I had nothing to do with this transaction. Please leave me out of it. If you persist in denigrating my name in this forum, I will seek counsel and you, and whoever moderates this forum, will be taken to court.

I've worked too hard to get EVs back in the market for someone who can't even use his real name to drag my name and reputation through the mud.

For what it's worth, I don't take EVDRIVERs comments to be negative or disparaging. In fact, it sounds to me like he's defending you and suggesting that if the op tried to say it was you that he wouldn't believe it - unless you'd gone to the dark side. Am i the only one who reads it that way?

 

[richard]

Just so you know, EVDRIVER has prolly done 10X more for the advancement of EVs than Paul Scott.

Doubt it. But who knows who EVDriver is?

mkraus starts off this thread with a provocative title and story, then backpedals and doesn't explain the whole story.

EVDriver makes a smarmy jab at a salesperson who had nothing to do with the transaction, then backpedals also.

If there is a valid discussion here, it's regarding what mkraus was offered and how the deal went down. Unfortunately, the thread has been polluted with personal attacks. This thread is ripe for deletion.

 

[darelldd]

Just so you know, EVDRIVER has prolly done 10X more for the advancement of EVs than Paul Scott.

Doubt it. But who knows who EVDriver is?

Apparently ENIAC does?

This thread is ripe for deletion.

True, that! Lots of misunderstandings and false accusations and general "ick." I think we're all served better if this thread goes away. Would be great if we could hear the whole story just once - without guesses or finger pointing or grand-standing. But that doesn't seem to be possible.

 

[evnow]

I think we made a determination sometime back that we do very light moderation. I see no reason to delete this thread.

We have to take the ugly with the beautiful. That is the price of light moderation.

 

[Coffee_Slurry]

Agreed. People should stand by their posts, and even with the ick-content, this thread is still interesting and a useful caution to someone who would do business with Santa Monica Nissan. Check your receipt.

If someone promised me a Gift Card and gave me a discount at the dealer parts desk instead, I wouldn't call that a "misunderstanding" or "miscommunication". My words might be stronger. But I wasn't there, and I'm not buying from them, so I leave that to other deliveries to confirm/refute since clearly the cat (or cat's lawyer) got mkraus's tongue.

 

[EVDRIVER]

Just so you know, EVDRIVER has prolly done 10X more for the advancement of EVs than Paul Scott.

Doubt it. But who knows who EVDriver is?

mkraus starts off this thread with a provocative title and story, then backpedals and doesn't explain the whole story.

EVDriver makes a smarmy jab at a salesperson who had nothing to do with the transaction, then backpedals also.

If there is a valid discussion here, it's regarding what mkraus was offered and how the deal went down. Unfortunately, the thread has been polluted with personal attacks. This thread is ripe for deletion.

I did not jab at a sales person or accuse him of anything, clearly Scott has stated that he had no involvement in this transaction which is all he needed to do rather than raise more negative attention to the issue and himself publicly on the Google index, including a threatening response to me and the forum. It believe there is other discussion on comments he made before regarding car pricing (?) that raised controversy, I wonder if he is threatening to sue all of those people, including members here that actually made comments about him specifically. In fact, situations like this are actual opportunities to clarify and create a good impression from something seen as negative, that's sales 101. Any further discussion on this vs the event is also the choice of members here, it never needed to be perpetuated like this.

It is the choice of the original poster to clear this issue or a representative of the dealer. It would seem the poster had some real issue or very bad misunderstanding, I would also think that the person they processed their order with at the dealer may be able to clear this up as well but it appears as though all parties involved are not going to address it which is their choice. If the event is true it is unfortunate to learn about regardless of who was involved and does not bode well for that dealer. I think people will form their own opinions based on the way it is handled and communicated, we all have varying levels of experience with dealers we can share and thankfully it seems as though it has been very positive. Auto dealers do have a "dark side" reputation and it is the choice of each dealer as to how they represent themselves and create public option via their management and their employees.

 

[JimSouCal]

Just so you know, EVDRIVER has prolly done 10X more for the advancement of EVs than Paul Scott.

Doubt it. But who knows who EVDriver is?

mkraus starts off this thread with a provocative title and story, then backpedals and doesn't explain the whole story.

EVDriver makes a smarmy jab at a salesperson who had nothing to do with the transaction, then backpedals also.

If there is a valid discussion here, it's regarding what mkraus was offered and how the deal went down. Unfortunately, the thread has been polluted with personal attacks. This thread is ripe for deletion.

Nice Analysis. I still think he who started it should finish it, and that is the OP. A short statement things have been resolved, doesn't really cut it. If he sat her before me, that is what I would say. Based on the first report, he sure did feel a person who was closing his deal at Santa Monica Nissan was out to shove him into a deal--if true, that would not surprise me.

The only person who I have met face to face in this whole dust up is Paul Scott who has been nothing but a gentleman, happily providing accurate information, and only evidenced a general vibe of decency.

We, and my late wife, met Paul the night of the Tesla launch party at the hanger in Santa Monica--and after a few minutes, recognized him from Who Killed the Electric Car. Both of us liked him right away-we waiting in line for an hour or so to ride in the Tesla prototype and the banter covered many subjects. Before that I knew of his activities working for a visual effects house that competed with a friend's VFX shop. A few years later, I had a tea with both Paul and a good friend, and again, he shared his knowledge about residential PV. I've run into him at several environmental events, have read his EV blog. This all long started before he needed a job, and took one, selling a product he believes in for sure: the LEAF. Paul has advocated relentlessly for EVs, and green environmental energy.

EVDRIVER hides his identity, and in this thread, displays a rather sloppy sense of analysis. I note that in an earlier post. There may be something going on that I don't know about outside this forum. Who knows?

A car dealership is staffed by many people--your experience hinges on who handles you. Car dealerships in general have a legacy for being short sighted, depending on multiple tactics of manipulation to close sales--the whole reward system for the sales force at a dealership makes these practices cultural and systemic--and ironically, sometimes not in the best interest of the dealership as a whole. Screwing over the customer for gain to be split by the dealer and the salesperson is a status builder at some.

When Paul announced he was taking a sales position at Nissan Santa Monica, literally, my first thought is this challenge him in a way because of the reasons I mention, but we all need a job. I think it is important to realize that like all of us, he is a person with feelings, and should be treated with appropriate respect. Based on my personal interactions with him over the years, I respect Paul Scott.

I don't think the thread should be deleted.

 

[JimSouCal]

First rhetorical statement

What did your sales person say, please don't tell me it's the guy who was the EV advocate, that would really be the icing on the cake. See how they resolve it, a perfect story for the vultures at ABG.

To this

I did not jab at a sales person or accuse him of anything, clearly Scott has stated that he had no involvement in this transaction which is all he needed to do rather than raise more negative attention to the issue and himself publicly on the Google index, including a threatening response to me and the forum.

Well, it's thinly veiled, but it is there. Why?

 

[TomT]

Paul Scott has also made some very bone-headed and self-serving comments publicly on more than one occasion - particularly since becoming involved with Santa Monica Nissan (check back on this very forum for some) - so I'd rate EVDRIVER at the 100X level compared to Paul.

He also has a much better sense of humor!

Just so you know, EVDRIVER has prolly done 10X more for the advancement of EVs than Paul Scott. Yet, they are both superstars in their own ways.

Now that would impress the heck out of me. It should impress the heck out of anybody. What I don't understand is how anybody who's done that much work toward EV advancement could NOT know who Paul Scott is or what he has done for the modern EV movement. The EV advocacy community just isn't that big! I would love to know EVdriver's name.

 

[darelldd]

Ah. So we're basing how much effort an individual has put into the EV cause by a few posts on a public forum? I was reaching a bit deeper than that, and considering years of selfless effort and action that resulted in having cars on the road today.

 

[ENIAC]

Ah. So we're basing how much effort an individual has put into the EV cause by a few posts on a public forum? I was reaching a bit deeper than that, and considering years of selfless effort and action that resulted in having cars on the road today.

Ah, so Paul Scott is the individual personally responsible for having electric cars on the road today. Sorry, I wasn't aware of that. For some stupid reason I though it was the OEM boards who "green lighted" and funded the EV programs, the stylist and engineers who designed them, and factory worker who built them who were responsible. Thanks for setting me straight!

 

[richard]

For some stupid reason I though it was the OEM boards who "green lighted" and funded the EV programs, the stylist and engineers who designed them, and factory worker who built them who were responsible. Thanks for setting me straight!

Maybe you missed the eight year lull during which OEMs weren't doing these things. :roll:

 

[darelldd]

Ah. So we're basing how much effort an individual has put into the EV cause by a few posts on a public forum? I was reaching a bit deeper than that, and considering years of selfless effort and action that resulted in having cars on the road today.

Ah, so Paul Scott is the individual personally responsible for having electric cars on the road today. Sorry, I wasn't aware of that. For some stupid reason I though it was the OEM boards who "green lighted" and funded the EV programs, the stylist and engineers who designed them, and factory worker who built them who were responsible. Thanks for setting me straight!

Well, you're obviously just learning how these things work. I'm happy to cut you some slack while you ponder your comment about how some other individual had 10x *more* impact on the EV movement than the one you are ignorantly poking fun at.

And yeah. What Richard said.

 

[EdmondLeaf]

Hope that someone will read my post here. I believe instead determining who said what and why maybe we should concentrate on real issue how to help Leaf going in much wider prospective. Leaf quality is very good, but delivery slow and tier 3 reservation (NC, GA, FL) delayed by 7 - 8 months. What will be the reason, in my opinion USA (CA especially) response is not what Nissan expected therefore, they going slow. I see that some people said that if no $5K CA rebate/credit, car will be to expensive for them, but we can't count that federal $7.5K will last forever (cash for clunker perfect example - finished much earlier than initially announced). I know that you CA people done a lot to get this thing going but much more is required. I think that all people that have cars already should propagate them everyday to get CA really going. I talk to thousands here in OK and get especially young people really interested, but for us long way to start reservations (probably around middle of 2012 at best). CA is a testing ground for Nissan and your response is critical to future of Leaf in USA. Nissan put a lot of money into EV but have to make profit selling them and if not we know what will happen.

 

[EVDRIVER]

Just so you know, EVDRIVER has prolly done 10X more for the advancement of EVs than Paul Scott.

Doubt it. But who knows who EVDriver is?

mkraus starts off this thread with a provocative title and story, then backpedals and doesn't explain the whole story.

EVDriver makes a smarmy jab at a salesperson who had nothing to do with the transaction, then backpedals also.

If there is a valid discussion here, it's regarding what mkraus was offered and how the deal went down. Unfortunately, the thread has been polluted with personal attacks. This thread is ripe for deletion.

Nice Analysis. I still think he who started it should finish it, and that is the OP. A short statement things have been resolved, doesn't really cut it. If he sat her before me, that is what I would say. Based on the first report, he sure did feel a person who was closing his deal at Santa Monica Nissan was out to shove him into a deal--if true, that would not surprise me.

The only person who I have met face to face in this whole dust up is Paul Scott who has been nothing but a gentleman, happily providing accurate information, and only evidenced a general vibe of decency.

We, and my late wife, met Paul the night of the Tesla launch party at the hanger in Santa Monica--and after a few minutes, recognized him from Who Killed the Electric Car. Both of us liked him right away-we waiting in line for an hour or so to ride in the Tesla prototype and the banter covered many subjects. Before that I knew of his activities working for a visual effects house that competed with a friend's VFX shop. A few years later, I had a tea with both Paul and a good friend, and again, he shared his knowledge about residential PV. I've run into him at several environmental events, have read his EV blog. This all long started before he needed a job, and took one, selling a product he believes in for sure: the LEAF. Paul has advocated relentlessly for EVs, and green environmental energy.

EVDRIVER hides his identity, and in this thread, displays a rather sloppy sense of analysis. I note that in an earlier post. There may be something going on that I don't know about outside this forum. Who knows?

A car dealership is staffed by many people--your experience hinges on who handles you. Car dealerships in general have a legacy for being short sighted, depending on multiple tactics of manipulation to close sales--the whole reward system for the sales force at a dealership makes these practices cultural and systemic--and ironically, sometimes not in the best interest of the dealership as a whole. Screwing over the customer for gain to be split by the dealer and the salesperson is a status builder at some.

When Paul announced he was taking a sales position at Nissan Santa Monica, literally, my first thought is this challenge him in a way because of the reasons I mention, but we all need a job. I think it is important to realize that like all of us, he is a person with feelings, and should be treated with appropriate respect. Based on my personal interactions with him over the years, I respect Paul Scott.

I don't think the thread should be deleted.

Most people do not put their identity on forums for a variety of reasons that make sense, some people do not mind so you are free to post your name here. I think it is foolish (for some) to do so for a multitude of reasons including personal security for very specific reasons. Don't forget that every post here is indexed to Google so your name and comments are very public off this forum, a caution to those searching for employment. It's a bit accusatory to imply someone is "hiding" by not using their name. Perhaps I should sue you for making false comments directly about me? You don't even know me! :x I would have a better case against you that Mr Scott, who I believe was just likely frustrated and overreacted. Many people have helped in many ways to move EVs forward and the percentages of contribution are irrelevant and have nothing to do with the topic of this thread or the way one handles a situation.


As far as the issue of this thread it is really very clear, the original poster can explain what happened or a representative from the dealer can explain as well, since that does not seem to be happening and the conversation seems to be going in a non-productive direction. I can leave the thread open for people to banter or I can lock it, I'm not going to delete it. I think there was a lost opportunity for the dealer to flip this situation around into a positive for them, that's my opinion as a business owner.

 

[darelldd]

Hope that someone will read my post here.

I hear you! And for my part, I shouldn't have even gotten sucked into this thread... nor participated in derailing it.

 

[ENIAC]

For some stupid reason I though it was the OEM boards who "green lighted" and funded the EV programs, the stylist and engineers who designed them, and factory worker who built them who were responsible. Thanks for setting me straight!

Maybe you missed the eight year lull during which OEMs weren't doing these things. :roll:

The LEAF program was begun in 2005 and Nissan have invested nearly $1B US to bring that vehicle to market. I'll grant you there was a lull went there weren't production EVs at the dealerships, however they were actually in development.

 

[ENIAC]

Ah. So we're basing how much effort an individual has put into the EV cause by a few posts on a public forum? I was reaching a bit deeper than that, and considering years of selfless effort and action that resulted in having cars on the road today.

Ah, so Paul Scott is the individual personally responsible for having electric cars on the road today. Sorry, I wasn't aware of that. For some stupid reason I though it was the OEM boards who "green lighted" and funded the EV programs, the stylist and engineers who designed them, and factory worker who built them who were responsible. Thanks for setting me straight!

Well, you're obviously just learning how these things work. I'm happy to cut you some slack while you ponder your comment about how some other individual had 10x *more* impact on the EV movement than the one you are ignorantly poking fun at.

And yeah. What Richard said.

Um, it actually wasn't Paul whom I was poking fun at. But I'm happy to cut you some slack in that regard as you learn this whole Internet thingy.

 

[darelldd]

Um, it actually wasn't Paul whom I was poking fun at. But I'm happy to cut you some slack in that regard as you learn this whole Internet thingy.

Stellar deflection yet again! I can't possibly compete. You win. I'm done.