Poll : The official "Did you Lease or Buy?" thread

[TonyWilliams]

Without your guys advice I would not have made it. Just got home and I'm still cold. 20 degrees out. But, I made it 67 miles. Three miles out no bars.... I did not run any heat, in eco mode, I conserved everything I was aware and glad I did.

Congrats on your new ride, and welcome aboard. You learned by fire how cold affects a non-Temperature Management System battery electric car (as opposed to the Volt, which has a really good TMS).

With showing three miles on the Guess-O-Meter (GOM), you were likely at "Very Low Battery", which means that the GOM would start showing "---", which means that you only had about 3 additional miles to drive at that same economy to hit "Turtle" mode.

So, about 70 miles range total. Unfortunately, you didn't know to reset your dash economy gauge before you launched, but it would have shown about 3. Check out the Range Chart.

Your battery is now doubt somewhat degraded from sitting on a dealer's lot all summer (for a year total), perhaps some of that time at 100% charge. But, without hard data, let's make the following adjustments to your batteries based 21kWh of available (usable) energy at 70F degrees for a new condition battery:

19.95kWh = 5% arbitrary adjustment for degradation losses multiplied by 21kWh for a new 70F battery - so, 21kWh - (5% * 21kWh) = 19.95kWh available with a 70F degree battery.

17.45kWh = 12.5% loss for battery temp at 20F degrees (lose 1% per 4F/2C below 70F/20C = 12.5% @ 20F) - so, 19.95kWh - (12.5% *19.95) = 17.45kWh total usable available with 5% degradation and a 20F degree battery.

Hopefully, this all makes sense. The final issues to determine capacity are that all the cells are balanced, and the best way to do that is just charge to 100% and let the automation do its job. It can take over 4 hours, at which time it will charge up the battery a small amount after discharging the highest cells. Sometimes this can happen more than once. I recommend doing this at least once a month.

Range autonomy is always simply usable energy capacity multiplied by consumption rate:

kWh * miles/kWh = range autonomy in miles

Since we don't know your economy, but we do know your likely range and available usable kWh:

70miles / 17.45kWh = 4 miles per kWh economy

If you had run the heater.... you ABSOLUTELY would not have even come close to completing the trip. Anyway, I hope this gives you the tools to quickly become confident in your range estimating.

 

[freddms]

<<70miles / 17.45kWh = 4 miles per kWh economy>>

Well -- I can't say for sure. Maybe this is a good assumption. I was down to 40MPH on a 65MPH highway and I'm sure I pissed some people off. I knew I would not make it 20 miles out unless I reduced wind resistance. Unfortunately I did buck a headwind coming home too or I think I would have had a little more capacity left. After reading the book I realized I was bone dry pulling into the driveway! 20 miles out the Navigation said, "You may not reach your destination."

We charged at 240V overnight and had 75 mile range. Kids took the car out and it did not have that much - more like 65 miles with heat (it's still cold here -- 30 degrees today). I drove it later -- off and on and now it's 11pm and fully charged with a 93 mile range (heated garage, conservative driving in afternoon). Looks excellent. I will have to monitor miles/KWH. From driving the Volt 17,000 miles I have a good frame of reference. The Volt has 'no' loss of range or charge after 14 months and 17,000 miles. It's rock solid.

I don't know enough about the Leaf to know if it has less miles than new. Nissans confidence in this battery is very strong -- I'm betting on that but it did influence my decision to lease (I'm concerned about the battery life).

It appears I get WAY more information about charging on the Volt than the Leaf. I feel I need more information from the Leaf. My dealer had never sold a Leaf yet so they did not get Carwings set up -- I have to go to the local dealer here. I hope to get way more information about the battery from Carwings. I will find that thread and maybe post there...

Thanks again -- I do agree if I would not have followed a couple posters advice I probably would not have the Leaf home yet!

 

[dgpcolorado]

...We charged at 240V overnight and had 75 mile range. Kids took the car out and it did not have that much - more like 65 miles with heat (it's still cold here -- 30 degrees today). I drove it later -- off and on and now it's 11pm and fully charged with a 93 mile range (heated garage, conservative driving in afternoon). Looks excellent. I will have to monitor miles/KWH. From driving the Volt 17,000 miles I have a good frame of reference. The Volt has 'no' loss of range or charge after 14 months and 17,000 miles. It's rock solid...

When you say "75 mile range" and "93 mile range" I presume that you are referring to the "Guess-o-meter" (GOM) numbers. Those numbers are projections from recent driving history and are often wildly inaccurate. You should ignore the GOM and instead keep track of your fuel bars and mileage efficiency. You can do the latter by resetting one of the mileage meters before each day's trip [the one on the console seems to read a tenth of a mile/kWh higher than the one on the dash, but the difference is trivial as to which one you use]. And you can get an idea of what speed does to your range by checking out Tony William's Range Chart.

To get an idea of how silly watching the GOM can get, here's a picture of mine at mile 14.5 of a trip:

 

[Phatcat73]

The leases look favorable. I'm not quite sure what to do. In Illinois we're actually eligible for a $3500 state rebate on the SL which is making my decision even harder.

Any suggestions?

 

[greengate]

I just bought, but when the car, (SL,) comes in, (about 8 weeks, maybe sooner,) I can lease if I want to change from purchase to lease.

Suggest you read about the many pros and cons as one size does not fit all.

For me, I've always owned cars and kept them for 8 to 20 years and I plan to do the same with the Leaf.

Glad to see you looking into the Leaf. I felt the need to "get off oil," did the research, (thank's to this site,) and the range works well for me and my daily use.

 

[jopickens]

New guy here...
My 2013 LEAF S showed up early - today actually - at the dealership.
I plan to pick it up Saturday.
Want to test the waters for the deal I'm getting...
It isn't set in stone yet whether I'm leasing or purchasing.

To purchase - I've negotiated the price of the car down from $29,965 (splash guards & floor mats + destination + msrp) to $25,500
-Fed tax credit of $7500
-WV tax credit of $7500

Essentially turns this into a $10,500 car?

Am I missing anything here?

Thanks,
Josh

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

New guy here...
My 2013 LEAF S showed up early - today actually - at the dealership.
I plan to pick it up Saturday.
Want to test the waters for the deal I'm getting...
It isn't set in stone yet whether I'm leasing or purchasing.

To purchase - I've negotiated the price of the car down from $29,965 (splash guards & floor mats + destination + msrp) to $25,500
-Fed tax credit of $7500
-WV tax credit of $7500

Essentially turns this into a $10,500 car?

Am I missing anything here?

Thanks,
Josh

you pay that much taxes in WV? keep in mind, rebates and taxes are not the same

 

[jopickens]

Understood - yes, you have to have that much tax liability to take advantage of the credit.

Is it a fair price for the car? Or at least what others are generally seeing for the 2013 base model S?

 

[EngravEER]

New guy here...
My 2013 LEAF S showed up early - today actually - at the dealership.
I plan to pick it up Saturday.
Want to test the waters for the deal I'm getting...
It isn't set in stone yet whether I'm leasing or purchasing.

To purchase - I've negotiated the price of the car down from $29,965 (splash guards & floor mats + destination + msrp) to $25,500
-Fed tax credit of $7500
-WV tax credit of $7500

Essentially turns this into a $10,500 car?

Am I missing anything here?

Thanks,
Josh

Josh,

Yes that's a heckuva deal but you better hop on it while you can since it won't be around much longer if our moronic Governor has anything to do with it...

http://www.journal-news.net/page/content.detail/id/291772/Tomblin-proposes-ending-tax-credit-on-plug-in-cars-.html?isap=1&nav=5045" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Just more "fuel for the fire" for the stereotypes and unfortunate backwoods reputation we have here in The Mountain State :evil:

What part of the State are you in? I'm in the Eastern Panhandle in Martinsburg.

BTW, while the entire $7,500.00 Federal Tax Credit must be taken in the year the car is purchased, the $7,500.00 WV Alternative-Fuel Motor Vehicle Tax Credit can be carried over to successive years. As it is worded, "the excess may be applied for succeeding taxable years until the full amount of the excess tax credit is used."

http://www.legis.state.wv.us/wvcode/code.cfm?chap=11&art=6D" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Buy the "S" before the Legislature votes on Tomblin's proposal and hope for the best LOL!

"Let's Go Mountaineers!"

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

ya, rollover is AWESOME

 

[RonDawg]

I just bought, but when the car, (SL,) comes in, (about 8 weeks, maybe sooner,) I can lease if I want to change from purchase to lease.

Let me clarify this...you bought (meaning you paid the full purchase price of the car, either with cash, or a combination of cash and loan) a car that you won't get for another 2 months?

Or did you simply put a deposit down on a car, with the rest due when the car arrives at the dealership? Hopefully that is what you meant.

As far as converting loan to lease after the original purchase offer is signed and the car registered as new with your state's DMV, I have never heard of that. Lease to loan conversions yes, but not the other way around.

Even if it is possible, you'd lose out on the great lease deals as those are heavily dependent on the $7500 Federal EV tax credit to come up with those low payments. Once the car is titled, it is no longer new and the lessor (NMAC) can no longer apply that $7500 towards reducing the Capitalized Cost Reduction. You would have to wait for it to come as a refund on next year's taxes, and that's assuming you qualify for the full credit to begin with.

 

[jopickens]

New guy here... Josh

Josh, Yes that's a heckuva deal but you better hop on it while you can since it won't be around much longer if our moronic Governor has anything to do with it...
http://www.journal-news.net/page/content.detail/id/291772/Tomblin-proposes-ending-tax-credit-on-plug-in-cars-.html?isap=1&nav=5045" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Just more "fuel for the fire" for the stereotypes and unfortunate backwoods reputation we have here in The Mountain State :evil:
What part of the State are you in? I'm in the Eastern Panhandle in Martinsburg.
BTW, while the entire $7,500.00 Federal Tax Credit must be taken in the year the car is purchased, the $7,500.00 WV Alternative-Fuel Motor Vehicle Tax Credit can be carried over to successive years. As it is worded, "the excess may be applied for succeeding taxable years until the full amount of the excess tax credit is used."
http://www.legis.state.wv.us/wvcode/code.cfm?chap=11&art=6D" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Buy the "S" before the Legislature votes on Tomblin's proposal and hope for the best LOL!
"Let's Go Mountaineers!"

Thanks for the heads up on that recent move to cut the WV credit short as well as immediately remove the EV component! I agree with your statements above... that article was humorous at times, yet sad overall. During the past few years I have but lost all faith in the political process/machine we rely upon for quality legislation.

Regardless - back to EV talk - I'm going to push through with this purchase and pick the car up Saturday morning in MD.
I'll get my profile updated... I'm originally from Weston but live in Grafton near Tygart Lake, currently working in Bridgeport.

Thanks for the quick responses by all.
Josh

 

[EngravEER]

New guy here... Josh

Josh, Yes that's a heckuva deal but you better hop on it while you can since it won't be around much longer if our moronic Governor has anything to do with it...
http://www.journal-news.net/page/content.detail/id/291772/Tomblin-proposes-ending-tax-credit-on-plug-in-cars-.html?isap=1&nav=5045" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Just more "fuel for the fire" for the stereotypes and unfortunate backwoods reputation we have here in The Mountain State :evil:
What part of the State are you in? I'm in the Eastern Panhandle in Martinsburg.
BTW, while the entire $7,500.00 Federal Tax Credit must be taken in the year the car is purchased, the $7,500.00 WV Alternative-Fuel Motor Vehicle Tax Credit can be carried over to successive years. As it is worded, "the excess may be applied for succeeding taxable years until the full amount of the excess tax credit is used."
http://www.legis.state.wv.us/wvcode/code.cfm?chap=11&art=6D" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Buy the "S" before the Legislature votes on Tomblin's proposal and hope for the best LOL!
"Let's Go Mountaineers!"

Thanks for the heads up on that recent move to cut the WV credit short as well as immediately remove the EV component! I agree with your statements above... that article was humorous at times, yet sad overall. During the past few years I have but lost all faith in the political process/machine we rely upon for quality legislation.

Regardless - back to EV talk - I'm going to push through with this purchase and pick the car up Saturday morning in MD.
I'll get my profile updated... I'm originally from Weston but live in Grafton near Tygart Lake, currently working in Bridgeport.

Thanks for the quick responses by all.
Josh

Josh,

If you found any humor in yesterday's Martinsburg Journal article, the one appearing in today's paper will provide even more laughs unfortunately...

http://www.journal-news.net/page/content.detail/id/591230/Legislators-offer-myriad-arguments-for-proposed-removal-of-tax-incentives.html?nav=5006" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Any faith you had in the West Virginia political system should've evaporated on June 20, 1863, the day we broke from Virginia and became a State LOL!

See you live in Grafton but are getting the car in Maryland. The closest Maryland Nissan dealership to you I believe is right across the Potomac River from me... Hamilton Nissan in Hagerstown, MD. Saw on their site last week that they had just got a Red 2013 "S" model in...

http://hamiltonnissan.com/New/Nissan/LEAF/LEAF-S-Hagerstown-MD-1N4AZ0CP9DC400443-wdi.cfm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Is that your new ride? If so, how are you gonna get her home? A month or so back, I had toyed with getting a Blue 2012 SL that had been sitting on the lot forever at John Howard Nissan in Morgantown, but it was going to be a bear getting it back to Martinsburg. Absolutely no charging infrastructure between Morgantown and Martinsburg on I-68/Rt. 40 coupled with those Western Maryland mountains was going to make for a LONG trip home LOL!

Good luck with your purchase. Hope everything goes smoothly!

 

[JPWhite]

http://www.journal-news.net/page/content.detail/id/591230/Legislators-offer-myriad-arguments-for-proposed-removal-of-tax-incentives.html?nav=5006" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Any faith you had in the West Virginia political system should've evaporated on June 20, 1863, the day we broke from Virginia and became a State LOL!

I got a chuckle form one quote in the article
"Delegate Paul Espinosa, R-Jefferson, said a conversation with fellow lawmaker and House Minority Chair Tim Armstead led him to believe Tomblin did not think the tax incentives for plug-in cars were being utilized."

""Those credits might be better utilized for other alternative fuels, such as natural gas," Espinosa said."

Expressed another way, "Who killed the electric car? - Part II"

 

[jopickens]

Is that your new ride?

Thanks for the well wishes - everything is going smoothly thus far.
No - picking mine (Brilliant Silver) up in Bethesda MD Saturday morning. I'll trailer it home...

Josh

 

[jopickens]

Ok - purchase went well... 70 minutes at the dealer and we were on our way!

Here's our new LEAF on day 1 (yesterday) in Washington DC

Taking it's first drink from a blink...

Snugged down for the 230 mi. ride home.

 

[EngravEER]

Ok - purchase went well... 70 minutes at the dealer and we were on our way!

Here's our new LEAF on day 1 (yesterday) in Washington DC

Josh:

Great pics... she's a beauty!

Glad to hear things went well at the dealership. How was the drive with it back to Grafton? Wish I would've known what time you came through Hagerstown on I-70 with 'er. I would've driven up and waived as you went past LOL!

Did you end-up leasing or doing an outright purchase? If you leased, do you mind sharing the terms you got? You mentioned picking the car up in Bethesda, so I'm assuming that Chevy Chase Nissan was where you purchased, correct?

Anyways, congrats from a jealous Mountaineer in Martinsburg

 

[jopickens]

Thanks again - We turned the weekend into a family trip to see the sights in DC as well, otherwise I would have given you ample notice of our passing through.
Outright purchase - $25,500 (plus wv 5% tax & fees etc. etc.)
Correct - Chevy Chase Nissan was the place. They had just sold a dark gray colored LEAF the day before and had one other left on the lot after we departed - a glacier white SV or SL etc.

We putzd around DC on Saturday in it - then the wife took it on several short trips in Grafton Sunday. Finally charged it Sun. night/Mon. am to 80%. We then drove it to work today... I guess since I've basically hijacked this old thread I'll throw a couple more pics in here.

I remembered to take a dash shot as we neared the end of the short road I live on.

Then another shot before I powered down in the parking lot at my office.

 

[shortcircuit]

Woohoo...my first post. Been lurking here for a week and am here to report I just got my 2013 SV this afternoon at Cerritos Nissan in Cerritos ;-) Here's the deal we made. How did I do?

2013 SV with Premium Package, splash guards, safety kit
36 month lease
15,000 miles/yr
$2,300 drive off
$280/month including taxes

I could have gotten:

36 month lease
12,000 miles/yr
$2,300 drive off
$259/month including taxes

However, since my daily commute is a minimum of 64 miles, the extra miles provides cushion. I also ordered a Versicharge 30 Amp 'charger' from homedepot.com ($849). Looking forward to many miles of gasoline-free commuting and carpool lane nirvana.

 

[Petecomp1]

Decided to lease: why? $7500 rebate, that's why! Since I have huge business wrote-offs we pay no FIT so tax credit on purchase does not good for us.
But - unfortunately I still do not fully understand the pros and cons of leasing as well as I should. The document I signed yesterday says my 24-month lease payment is $297. Sounds a lot lower than others I see on this forum. Any financial gurus out there expain this? If I get a response I'll send along the numbers.