Poll : The official "Did you Lease or Buy?" thread

[redLEAF]

I had intention of leasing it as the monthly cost was attractive and I did not have to worry about $7500 rebate that is absorbed in the lease. However, Maryland has $2000 rebate only on purchase so I ended up buying it.

Raza

Hard to believe that this thread is a bit over a year old so perhaps should be 'renewed' or whatever you need to do to allow those who voted back then to change their vote ... my original vote was 'waiting' but went with buying one as Illinois like Maryland has an up to $4,000 rebate for purchased LEAF's only so it was too much to pass up. We also pay enough in federal taxes to take the credit so that wasn't a factor. My hope is when the battery approaches end of life we have a decent option to simply replace it with a longer range one at a 'reasonable' cost but as my 'out of pocket' when you factor in the credit, rebate and trade in brought it's price down to actually less out of pocket than the car it replaced, if we get a similar 6 years (or more of course with the warranty) out of it we'll be happy. The only thing that would be disappointing would be if the value drops so low (at the end of 6 years for comparison purposes) that the car offers little trade in value as again the car it replaced (would need to factor in inflation, offset the savings in operation, etc.). That amount was $9,000 so we'll see. I would think the car without the battery is much more than a 'rolling chassis' towards the end of its battery life as it still has its power plant just not it's ability to refuel but as we see more EV's we'll see how that all works out. This wasn't simply a cost factor to switch from an ICE to EV but would be a nice side benefit. We do typically keep most of our cars for many years but it's tougher to do that in the midwest as over time despite garaging them, keeping the salt off, etc. if you drive them year round they will eventually rust out (I do still own a '99 Miata that is only driven 3 seasons yearly that bears this out --- even the exhaust is still OK, but a '97 Dodge Grand Caravan was getting rusty enough to for a 'cash for clunkers' trade in '09). There is also the factor of the longer you wait the less the older car is worth; sometimes the government does come along and offer an incentive to basically 'junk' the old car (cash for clunkers) but it's rare. Edmunds shows the LEAF being worth about $14,300 after 5 years and 75K miles so perhaps it offers even more value then people think ...

http://www.edmunds.com/nissan/leaf/2012/tco.html?style=101397755


EDIT: I see that I could change my original 'vote' so I did and picked another one -- was going to lease but changed to buy (due to the IL EPA rebate making leased cars ineligible)

 

[shawnbrig]

I leased and took advantage of the $7500 tax credit, then switched to purchase after 10 months.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

I leased and took advantage of the $7500 tax credit, then switched to purchase after 10 months.

How does that work? Buying out the lease early. I'm thinking I might buy out my lease but not sure how they calculate it if you buy it out early. Also why would I? Is the interest (money factor?) higher on the lease than it would be financing it?

 

[JPWhite]

I leased and took advantage of the $7500 tax credit, then switched to purchase after 10 months.

How does that work? Buying out the lease early. I'm thinking I might buy out my lease but not sure how they calculate it if you buy it out early. Also why would I? Is the interest (money factor?) higher on the lease than it would be financing it?

I ran the numbers of purposefully buying out a lease early. The idea being I'd get the $7,500 sooner rather than later. However after examining the numbers discovered that 1/2 of the $7,500 was eaten up in lease financing costs. So I purchased outright.

 

[coqui]

Smart idea to get the $7500 now. Who knows what this administration :evil: will do to raise taxes.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

I leased and took advantage of the $7500 tax credit, then switched to purchase after 10 months.

How does that work? Buying out the lease early. I'm thinking I might buy out my lease but not sure how they calculate it if you buy it out early. Also why would I? Is the interest (money factor?) higher on the lease than it would be financing it?

if you cannot get the $7500 tax credit or only get a part of it like me, then it benefits you greatly to do it. it is treated as a cash down payment towards the the eventual purchase price.

you will lose a little on the conversion but you can make it minimal buy putting a larger down payment on the lease.

 

[EvansvilleLeaf]

Smart idea to get the $7500 now. Who knows what this administration :evil: will do to raise taxes.

No idea - they've reduced them so far.

 

[Larry]

I was planning to buy, but when my delivery slipped from 2011 to 2012 I decided that I didn't want to tie up my $7500 for over a year. Also, my dealer did not offer what I considered an acceptable loan rate. I bought the lease payments down to $309 with extra down payment. I know I am taking a bit of a hit from the leasing charges, but this is somewhat offset by the more immediate access to the Federal subsidy. I am also somewhat comforted by being able to return the car if new models are significantly improved. My state offers absolutely no incentive, so that was not a factor.

 

[Yodrak]

Who knows what this administration :evil: will do to raise taxes.

The administration cannot do anything to raise taxes.

The Congress could, but Congress is gridlocked and the Republican House will not approve any bill that might raise taxes.

 

[Herm]

My specific concern is how the battery capacity will be affected by our Las Vegas summers. They chew up lead acid car batteries.

Phoenix also, I suspect the often mentioned 5 year battery life is based on Phoenix and Vegas.

 

[videographer]

Smart idea to get the $7500 now. Who knows what this administration :evil: will do to raise taxes.

Funny, much of the Leaf-hate I get revolves around the stupid idea that "I shouldn't be paying for YOUR science experiment." OTOH, President Obama has talked about making the rebate $10K and payable at purchase. I could dig that, although the chances of it happening this year are pretty small.

 

[JPWhite]

Funny, much of the Leaf-hate I get revolves around the stupid idea that "I shouldn't be paying for YOUR science experiment."

It's quite interesting the reactions I get from people when I explain the incentives I have received. Some people truly have a hard time with the fact I have benefited. The fact I contributed to taxes that fund the the incentive is lost on them, they see the transfer of monies is all from them to me.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

Funny, much of the Leaf-hate I get revolves around the stupid idea that "I shouldn't be paying for YOUR science experiment."

It's quite interesting the reactions I get from people when I explain the incentives I have received. Some people truly have a hard time with the fact I have benefited. The fact I contributed to taxes that fund the the incentive is lost on them, they see the transfer of monies is all from them to me.

Sorry to take the thread further off topic but I can't resist. By my rough calculations each U.S. taxpayer will ultimately pay about $4 to fund the DOE subsidies to stimulate bringing alternative fueled vehicles to market. Since each of us paid the $4 as well our net subsidy was $7496, not $7500. As a side note though, it's worth mentioning that even with the subsidy, your contribution to this science experiment is much greater than $4. While it has been belabored on other threads ad nauseum I remain convinced there are probably few Leaf owners outside of the 2011 CA buyers (who got in at a lower sticker price and higher state subsidies) who couldn't be going down the road cheaper in a modest gas car.

On the flip side, another very rough back of the envelope calculation suggests each of us is spending about $500 PER YEAR to keep cheap gas flowing. I got that from attributing half of the defense budget to securing the free flow of oil, halved again to account for half of oil going to produce gasoline.

So maybe when someone makes that statement you offer them this deal... You'll reimburse them the $4 they contributed to your electric car if they will reimburse you the $500 every year you are paying for their cheap gas.

 

[JPWhite]

So maybe when someone makes that statement you offer them this deal... You'll reimburse them the $4 they contributed to your electric car if they will reimburse you the $500 every year you are paying for their cheap gas.

Awesome idea!!

However I'd be tempted to modify that deal since I did not receive 100% of that $4. Since each OEM is allocated 200,000 vehicles that are eligible for the incentive, I'd offer them 1/200000th of $4 as refund of the contribution they made to me *personally*. That 2c. It's up to them to get the other 199999 leaf owners to refund them the 2 cent contribution they received from the complainant.

So I'll offer them 2cents if they give me $500

 

[evmike]

I leased my car. After the one year battery test gave me five stars I paid off my lease and now own the car. If you want to pay off the lease go to the original dealer since I tried at a closer dealer and they wanted to charge me $500 and do a safety inspection.

 

[timhebb]

Funny, much of the Leaf-hate I get revolves around the stupid idea that "I shouldn't be paying for YOUR science experiment."

So maybe when someone makes that statement you offer them this deal... You'll reimburse them the $4 they contributed to your electric car if they will reimburse you the $500 every year you are paying for their cheap gas.

If we take into consideration the fact that the U.S. taxes gasoline purchases far less than most other western countries (see this chart comparing U.S. vs. European gasoline prices - the difference due to taxation: http://www.bingaman.senate.gov/images/03072012fs_fig1.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ), which effectively subsidizes gasoline for Americans, then we EV drivers should be reimbursed far more than $500/yr. After all, those of us NOT buying gasoline are helping subsidize the majority who are, and should be paying much more for it.

By the way, this same chart convincingly crushes partisan arguments claiming Administration policies are to blame for rising gas prices. It shows that the price of gas in the U.S. has moved in lockstep with that in all European countries for many years, no matter whether Republicans or Democrats were in power, or what economic or fiscal policies they pursued. Gasoline is a global commodity and its price moves as such.

 

[JPWhite]

Gasoline is a global commodity and its price moves as such.

Oil is a worldwide commodity. Gasoline, the refined end product is however subject to local supply/demand and regulation. I.e. California gas costs more because of extra requirements on the refiners and the fact that they like to charge more. When Nashville ran out of gas for a week or two in 2008 it spiked to over $5 gallon where it was available.

http://voices.yahoo.com/major-gas-shortage-nashville-middle-tennessee-1966673.html

All the more reason to own an EV.

 

[PracticingHuman]

As I mentioned in my intro post, we had fully intended to buy. We would have lost the opportunity to recoup the $7500 for certain, as we normally see a refund in taxes due to how much we have witheld.

I never considered the early buyout on a lease until a dealer suggested it. Though he knew we wanted to buy, he was offering the idea to beat out the price on a used 2011 at another dealership. We would have had to pay sales tax on it, so with the tax exemption on the new one and the $7500 credit on the lease program it ended up costing less than the used 2011.

As we thought about it we decided to just stay with the 2 year lease. If the range increases in the models a couple of years from now we can easily transition into the newer technology. Otherwise we can buy it out at a great price. We felt it gave us more flexibility.

 

[planet4ever]

As I mentioned in my intro post, we had fully intended to buy. We would have lost the opportunity to recoup the $7500 for certain, as we normally see a refund in taxes due to how much we have witheld.

I am very sorry to hear that you were confused about the $7500. It has nothing to do at all with how much is withheld. It relates only to the net amount of income tax you pay during the year: (withholding) + (quarterly payments) + (amount paid with return) - (refund). The confusion for many people is that it is called a "non-refundable" credit. But all the IRS means by that phrase is that they won't give you back more than what you gave them.

Example: If you have $10,000 withheld and would normally get $1,000 back, you qualify, because your net tax is $9,000. Next year you would (should) get a check for $1,000 + $7,500 = $8,500. Or you could cut your withholding back to zero for the last three months of this year, and end up with $2,500 more to spend by Christmas. Next year you would have withheld only $7,500, and would still owe $9,000, but guess what: You whip out that $7,500 credit and you have, in effect, paid $15,000. So you would get a check from the IRS for $15,000 - $9,000 = $6,000. That, plus the $2,500 you spent at Christmas adds up to $8,500, which you would have gotten next year if you had kept your withholding up.

But don't feel too bad about missing out on the opportunity. Go read this thread and shake your head: Electric drive vehicle credit 8936 decreased/rejected by IRS
(Short summary: Many people who filed their returns early or on time last spring are still waiting for a $7,500 refund that we are absolutely positive the IRS owes them.)

Ray

 

[JPWhite]

But don't feel too bad about missing out on the opportunity. Go read this thread and shake your head: Electric drive vehicle credit 8936 decreased/rejected by IRS
(Short summary: Many people who filed their returns early or on time last spring are still waiting for a $7,500 refund that we are absolutely positive the IRS owes them.)

Ray

Wow tat's just plain scary. Thanks for providing the link to that thread.

Yet another reason for the govt to scrap the tax credit and issue point of sale credits.