Poll : The official "Did you Lease or Buy?" thread

[PracticingHuman]

I am very sorry to hear that you were confused about the $7500. It has nothing to do at all with how much is withheld. It relates only to the net amount of income tax you pay during the year: (withholding) + (quarterly payments) + (amount paid with return) - (refund). The confusion for many people is that it is called a "non-refundable" credit. But all the IRS means by that phrase is that they won't give you back more than what you gave them.

Thanks for the clarification on that. I was under the assumption that I would get nothing back.

Actually there were a couple of occasions where a salesperson tried to explain that very same thing to me. Of course I can't say that I'm 100% confident in what a salesperson tells me if they think it might net them a sale...

Nonetheless, I was not confident that I would get the $7500 back through filing my taxes, but I was confident that I would get it through leasing. I figured let them take $7500 off the bottom line, meaning a lower amount of interest paid at the end of the day. I figured I was betting on a sure thing rather than the tax return gamble. Turns out it was a gamble for many people, as the thread indicates. My heart goes out to them. That would have to be really frustrating.

 

[phaduman]

I am very sorry to hear that you were confused about the $7500. It has nothing to do at all with how much is withheld. It relates only to the net amount of income tax you pay during the year: (withholding) + (quarterly payments) + (amount paid with return) - (refund). The confusion for many people is that it is called a "non-refundable" credit. But all the IRS means by that phrase is that they won't give you back more than what you gave them.

Thanks for the clarification on that. I was under the assumption that I would get nothing back.

Actually there were a couple of occasions where a salesperson tried to explain that very same thing to me. Of course I can't say that I'm 100% confident in what a salesperson tells me if they think it might net them a sale...

Nonetheless, I was not confident that I would get the $7500 back through filing my taxes, but I was confident that I would get it through leasing. I figured let them take $7500 off the bottom line, meaning a lower amount of interest paid at the end of the day. I figured I was betting on a sure thing rather than the tax return gamble. Turns out it was a gamble for many people, as the thread indicates. My heart goes out to them. That would have to be really frustrating.

I wonder if people can start to "reduce the withholding" during the year enough that year-end taxes will show that they owe Federal $7.5K+ money which then would automatically make them get the refund. This way, there is no more gamble. This of course assumes that people have a good idea of how much tax they might need to pay by end of year.
These confusions and calculations like you had in mind made me go for the lease - with good intentions to likely keep the car if things warrant at the end of lease.

 

[Msquared]

I didn't plan on getting a Leaf at all, and ended up Leasing. I am happy with this decision, as I don't know what technological improvements will have come along in a few years.

 

[EatsShootsandLeafs]

Leased. Was not looking for a Leaf, was not even looking for a new car quite yet, but after seeing the price I could get and then taking it for a test drive I would have been denying my most carnal of geek instincts to not pick one up, and thus had to. It was out of my control.

 

[JPWhite]

Leased. Was not looking for a Leaf, was not even looking for a new car quite yet, but after seeing the price I could get and then taking it for a test drive I would have been denying my most carnal of geek instincts to not pick one up, and thus had to. It was out of my control.

Glad that I have a geek doppelgänger living out there somewhere.

 

[vrwl]

... I would have been denying my most carnal of geek instincts to not pick one up, and thus had to. It was out of my control.

+1

 

[SteveS29Palms]

Lease
I resisted 2 years, but this week, "$0 DOWN, $299 mo" sold, er, leased me. The dealer offered $7500 rebate up front and a generous trade-in, plus the feds $7500 tax credit, the CARB $2500 incentive and I was sold. Of course, I had been studying EVs for 3 years, so I was ready to lease.
I've driven 500 miles after 1 week and still learning the absolute basic stuff. This Leaf lives 100% in extremly hot climate, I'm not worried about battery nor heat. Decades ago I ruined an air-cooled VW van in its first 24,000 miles from too much heat, so climate problems with a car just don't scare me any more .
Over the past year I had been checking 3 Ford dealers for Focus EV, but apparently these Ford dealers won't be selling any EVs, so Nissan got me.

 

[greensith]

We leased, to me it was a no brainer even though I am not a fan of the lease model. With the deals on the 2012 for lease right now, it is significantly cheaper than the payment on my 2011 Kia Forte 5 door and then add in the fuel savings. I also view this as early adoption of tech, with how quickly and dramatically things could change it made sense that after 3 years my options are more open.

 

[HeyHey]

I leased. The $199/month with $1999 (for the SV) drew me into the dealer. I ended up getting an SL with the $7500 federal and $2500 Tennessee credit. Total monthly cost....$183.14. Closer to $100 when I take into account less gas costs.

I leased because it financially made much more sense to me, I like getting new cars, and I will be well under the 12,000 mile limit. Perhaps most importantly, with rapidly evolving technology in the field I figure the Leaf or a competitor will have a much better product within a couple years, so I didn't want to be tied to technology from 2012 when the 2014 or 2015 technology may be vastly superior.

 

[evnow]

Initially, overwhelming majority of people were buying. Now it seems the leases are actually leading buys ...

 

[JPWhite]

I leased. The $199/month with $1999 (for the SV) drew me into the dealer. I ended up getting an SL with the $7500 federal and $2500 Tennessee credit. Total monthly cost....$183.14. Closer to $100 when I take into account less gas costs.

I leased because it financially made much more sense to me, I like getting new cars, and I will be well under the 12,000 mile limit. Perhaps most importantly, with rapidly evolving technology in the field I figure the Leaf or a competitor will have a much better product within a couple years, so I didn't want to be tied to technology from 2012 when the 2014 or 2015 technology may be vastly superior.

So the TN $2,500 is still available? Must be close to being fully drawn down.

 

[TimLee]

So the TN $2,500 is still available? Must be close to being fully drawn down.

I know it was still available in late September, as I talked with someone who got it.
Also, the last EVProject quarterly report I read a couple months back, there were <600 participants in Tennessee.
Would probably need to contact the state of Tennessee to get firm numbers, but the dealer may be able to provide some information on how close the state is on the 1,000 $2,500 rebates.

 

[freddms]

Just leased a 2012 SL Leaf in the cold state of Iowa.

$211/month, no money down, 39 months, 39K miles. List price was $38,270 at dealer.

Looks like one of the best lease deals here.

I have to drive it home -- 67 miles. Hope I make it on 65 MPH roads (dealer says dash says 87 miles with nearly a full charge and is topping it off). It's new - but has been used by the Dealer for taking people to and from work when in for service.

Will be followed home by my wife in our Volt, so no problem getting home if we run out of juice with the Leaf. Dealer said if I get stranded he will send a flatbed to pick up the car. After reading a lot of the post here if I baby it, watch the nav., don't depend on the accuracy of the range - as it adjusts, and keep the heat down, I may make it.

After driving the Volt for 17,000 miles I fully understand the impact of cold weather. Here in IA it's 20 degrees this morning with a high of 30. I will get about 2.75 miles/KWH with the volt for a total electric range in the upper 20 miles (that's with comfort heating). I can get 3 miles/kWH in this weather with preheat and really focus on energy use.

If I have 24kWH to burn up, and I can get 3 miles/KWH I can go 75 miles if everything is working well???

 

[JPWhite]

Just leased a 2012 SL Leaf in the cold state of Iowa.

$211/month, no money down, 39 months, 39K miles. List price was $38,270 at dealer.

Looks like one of the best lease deals here.

I have to drive it home -- 67 miles. Hope I make it on 65 MPH roads (dealer says dash says 87 miles with nearly a full charge and is topping it off). It's new - but has been used by the Dealer for taking people to and from work when in for service.

Will be followed home by my wife in our Volt, so no problem getting home if we run out of juice with the Leaf. Dealer said if I get stranded he will send a flatbed to pick up the car. After reading a lot of the post here if I baby it, watch the nav., don't depend on the accuracy of the range - as it adjusts, and keep the heat down, I may make it.

After driving the Volt for 17,000 miles I fully understand the impact of cold weather. Here in IA it's 20 degrees this morning with a high of 30. I will get about 2.75 miles/KWH with the volt for a total electric range in the upper 20 miles (that's with comfort heating). I can get 3 miles/kWH in this weather with preheat and really focus on energy use.

If I have 24kWH to burn up, and I can get 3 miles/KWH I can go 75 miles if everything is working well???

At 65 mph you should get 5 miles 'per bar' on the fuel gauge. So it may appear you are 5 miles short. There are two 'hidden bars' so you should get the extra 7 miles.

If you can do part of the journey on side roads and do about 45 you'll get over 6 miles 'per bar'. Be sure to put it in eco. It'll feel sluggish, but better that than running short at the bottom of your street.

Ignore the GOM and focus on the number of fuel bars left to estimate your range. There is a blue button on the steering wheel, if you press that it will give you a upper and lower range estimate. Go by the lower number.

Use the nav so it informs you how many miles left to your destination, that will give you additional feedback to gauge if you'll make it or not.

Oh yeah, take a 12 gauge extension cord. If you get close to home and you realize you won't quite make it, hunt down a building with a 120v and ask for permission to plug-in (you could do the searching in the Volt). You can return a few hours later and be just fine.

Bundle up and don't use the heat for this journey.

Good luck, you'll be fine as a Volt owner you know how to preserve EV range already.

 

[LEAFer]

Just leased a 2012 SL Leaf in the cold state of Iowa.

$211/month, no money down, 39 months, 39K miles. List price was $38,270 at dealer.

Looks like one of the best lease deals here.

I have to drive it home -- 67 miles. Hope I make it on 65 MPH roads (dealer says dash says 87 miles with nearly a full charge and is topping it off). It's new - but has been used by the Dealer for taking people to and from work when in for service.

Will be followed home by my wife in our Volt, so no problem getting home if we run out of juice with the Leaf. Dealer said if I get stranded he will send a flatbed to pick up the car. After reading a lot of the post here if I baby it, watch the nav., don't depend on the accuracy of the range - as it adjusts, and keep the heat down, I may make it.

After driving the Volt for 17,000 miles I fully understand the impact of cold weather. Here in IA it's 20 degrees this morning with a high of 30. I will get about 2.75 miles/KWH with the volt for a total electric range in the upper 20 miles (that's with comfort heating). I can get 3 miles/kWH in this weather with preheat and really focus on energy use.

If I have 24kWH to burn up, and I can get 3 miles/KWH I can go 75 miles if everything is working well???

The usable amount in the (new) battery is 21kWh, not 24. Pre-heat the car while plugged in at the dealer getting its "top-off". Dress warmly. Drive 55-60, not 65mph. Hopefully you won't have to use the defroster, and use the heater sparingly. Drive in Eco not "D", this automatically limits the amount of energy the heater sucks up.

Safe and happy travels !

How many miles on the LEAF ? What is the manufacturing date (open drivers door, look at bottom of B pillar) ?

 

[Reddy]

No, you don't have 21 KWH at 20-30 F. See Tony William's posts and chart. If you need to drive 67 mi at those temps, you'll need to keep the heat OFF most of the way and drive less than 60 mph. I managed 80 mi to turtle at 30 F but this had at least 10-20 mi of city driving (<40 mph). Yes, pre-warm that car and you won't really need heat until mile 30 or so.

 

[freddms]

Without your guys advice I would not have made it. Just got home and I'm still cold. 20 degrees out. But, I made it 67 miles. Three miles out no bars. Nav told me I may not make it to my destination. Told me to find charging station immediately (I'm in freakin' Iowa -- there aren't any!! (laughing)).

Quite an adventure -- it was fun. I did not run any heat, in eco mode, I conserved everything I was aware and glad I did.

Most non-EV people would probably be horrified. But, I'm very impressed I just drove a battery car from Dubuque IA, to Cedar Rapids, IA when it's 20 degrees out.

I really like the car. There was 3500 miles (but still sold new -- it was the demo). 1/2012 is manufacture month. 39 month lease and they got me for $216/month.

Capitalized cost: 25,632 (so they really marked it down)
Residual: 17,244
Depreciation 8,388 and rent charge 50.31 <<< pretty low number.

 

[JPWhite]

Quite an adventure -- it was fun. I did not run any heat, in eco mode, I conserved everything I was aware and glad I did.

Most non-EV people would probably be horrified. But, I'm very impressed I just drove a battery car from Dubuque IA, to Cedar Rapids, IA when it's 20 degrees out.

Congratulations!! The key to driving a BEV is planning

Hope you enjoy your new vehicle. Sounds like you already are!

 

[venk25]

Congrats freddms! Welcome to the family & way to go.

I've had my leaf for 10 days now and I did 50 miles yesterday in ~10F weather (had a few miles left). I used heat for ~64% of my trip in ECO mode. 67 mi you did is great!

I was considering a Volt before I leased the Leaf - the amazing lease deal drove me towards the Leaf. I thought of replacing one of our 2 ICE vehicles with a Volt, but ended up with the Leaf as our 3rd car.

Enjoy the BEV!

 

[LEAFer]

Congrats !

So ... with a manufacturing date of 1/2012 and 3,500 miles, the LEAF may have sat on the dealer's lot in hot summer weather and possibly at a high SOC. Getting some GID data on it soon would be good info to have.

Welcome to Team EV !