[PHASED-OUT]: Tracking the $5k California CVRP Fund

[Coffee_Slurry]

It was a meaningful and well-prepared call.

One other thing that people need to understand is that the Waiting List (after funds are depleted) does not guarantee a rebate under the same terms in place at purchase.

Meaning, if the rebate gets adjusted in the next fiscal year, you would be subject to those new limits or terms.

Someone getting a Tesla and waiting list slot, for example, might be surprised to learn that no payment is forthcoming later. (Because of the 4-passenger requirement, or the "Luxury car" exclusion)

It sounds like much less of a "sure thing". The program is young, and terms are in flux as they try to maximize the impact it has on number of cars.

 

[DaveEV]

• Make luxury vehicles ineligible. The cutoff might be at $70K MSRP.

Not a bad idea since a number of people complain about this "subsidy" to the "rich".

Anyway, if it's done, hopefully instead of a cutoff, they do it on a sliding scale, so for example:

$40k and less get full credit. Credit is phased out proportionally once vehicle price reaches $80k. So a $60k car gets half credit - a $80k car gets no credit.

Adjust numbers to suit. Given how fast the funds are running out - it definitely makes sense to try to adjust the rebate so that more people get something instead of half the people getting a lot and half the people getting nothing.

If we could get a long term program funded, it would make sense to fund it like the CSI solar program where the rebate slowly declines over time.

 

[leafmealone]

I too was on the call and the theme of the call was clear, they want feedback in order to help structure the terms of any proposed changes to the 2011-2012 program.


I will be responding to the CCSE in writing with the following suggestion:

"If the rules state you can only apply for the rebate after taking physical delivery, then this should be the criteria for locking your rebate amount. In other words if your delivery date was prior to the new programs fiscal year beginning date (July 01, 2011) and the current years funds are exhausted, you should be wait-listed and locked into the rebate amount at the time of the eligible application. Deliveries / Applications after the July 01, 2011 date would fall under that programs offerings and if a lapse of funding occurred (almost guaranteed from what I heard) you would be wait-listed and locked into what ever that current rebate amount is."

 

[opencar]

wow, do I understand it correctly that the sustainable energy guys estimate that the $6.7M remaining will be wiped out in the next 4+ months? Our entire spreadsheet probably has 200 californians on it and the delivery dates already stretch to May.

• To date, commercial electrics, like the delivery trucks Staples got, have gotten well over half of the funds distributed.
• Starting almost immediately – probably next week – commercial trucks will come out of a separate fund administered by a different agency.
• $4.7M will be added to the fund and will be available this spring so that up to 1400 more LEAFs can get their $5K rebate.
• Don't try to negotiate a lease term shorter than three years. You would not be eligible for any rebate if you did.
• Rental car fleets do not get any of the money this fiscal year, because they don't keep their cars for three years.
• Despite these improvements, the agency expects to run out of money before the end of the fiscal year, June 30. They will set up a waiting list for FY2011-12.

They expect to get between $10M and $13M for FY2011-12, though it won't be available until some time after the FY begins. However, they will be changing the rules. If you are put on the waiting list the new rules (not yet nailed down) will apply to you. Among the changes they are considering:

• Reduce the payment for LEAF class EV's to somewhere between $2500 and $5000.
• Make luxury vehicles ineligible. The cutoff might be at $70K MSRP.
• Eliminate rebates for neighborhood vehicles.
• Allow rental and ride-sharing companies to participate at a lower rebate level, perhaps $1500.
• Limit the number of vehicles a corporation can get credit for – perhaps to 50.

[/quote]

 

[bytrain]

As mentioned last week, their will be a CVRP Working Group teleconference call next Wednesday February 2nd. Below is the agenda and conference call information. We encourage anyone who is interested to call in and learn about the CVRP funding for the FY 2010/2011.

I listened in to much of the teleconference this morning, and heard a number of interesting things, some of which have been stated here before but are worth confirming.

• To date, commercial electrics, like the delivery trucks Staples got, have gotten well over half of the funds distributed.
• Starting almost immediately – probably next week – commercial trucks will come out of a separate fund administered by a different agency.
• $4.7M will be added to the fund and will be available this spring so that up to 1400 more LEAFs can get their $5K rebate.
• Don't try to negotiate a lease term shorter than three years. You would not be eligible for any rebate if you did.
• Rental car fleets do not get any of the money this fiscal year, because they don't keep their cars for three years.
• Despite these improvements, the agency expects to run out of money before the end of the fiscal year, June 30. They will set up a waiting list for FY2011-12.

They expect to get between $10M and $13M for FY2011-12, though it won't be available until some time after the FY begins. However, they will be changing the rules. If you are put on the waiting list the new rules (not yet nailed down) will apply to you. Among the changes they are considering:

• Reduce the payment for LEAF class EV's to somewhere between $2500 and $5000.
• Make luxury vehicles ineligible. The cutoff might be at $70K MSRP.
• Eliminate rebates for neighborhood vehicles.
• Allow rental and ride-sharing companies to participate at a lower rebate level, perhaps $1500.
• Limit the number of vehicles a corporation can get credit for – perhaps to 50.

I listened in as well and have a few additions/clarifications:

• 49 commercial ZEVs have been incentivized to date. As of next week, however, commercial ZEV rebates will come out of the ARB's Hybrid Truck and Bus Voucher Incentive Program (HVIP) freeing up remaining 2009-2010 and subsequent fiscal year funding for light duty vehicles, neighborhood electric vehicles, and zero emission motorcycles.
• The remaining 2009-2010 funding and the $4.7 million in 2010-2011 is sufficient to incentivize approximately 1,300 vehicles at $5,000 each. If the California Energy Commission approves an interagency agreement providing $2 million of their AB118 funds to the CVRP later this month, CVRP could incentivize an additional 400 vehicles.
• The cutoff mentioned for luxury vehicles was $75,000.

 

[Boomer23]

I too was on the call and the theme of the call was clear, they want feedback in order to help structure the terms of any proposed changes to the 2011-2012 program.


I will be responding to the CCSE in writing with the following suggestion:

"If the rules state you can only apply for the rebate after taking physical delivery, then this should be the criteria for locking your rebate amount. In other words if your delivery date was prior to the new programs fiscal year beginning date (July 01, 2011) and the current years funds are exhausted, you should be wait-listed and locked into the rebate amount at the time of the eligible application. Deliveries / Applications after the July 01, 2011 date would fall under that programs offerings and if a lapse of funding occurred (almost guaranteed from what I heard) you would be wait-listed and locked into what ever that current rebate amount is."

Your suggestion makes sense to me. I know that some people are basing their decision to go ahead with their purchase or lease on the availability of the rebate. Since that decision will be a commitment on the buyer's part, it seems appropriate for CVRP to commit to the rebate amount in effect at the time of delivery of the car for those who have to be wait listed.

 

[EVDRIVER]

I'm glad to see the fund is being allocated more intelligently, years ago it was basically the "Tesla" fund. I give the CVRP a "A" for communication and involvement on this project and keeping the forum updated.

 

[Center4Energy]

Hello All,

I wanted to thank all of you that attended the call earlier this week. I am glad to hear your feedback and would be happy to pass on your recommendations to ARB. The point of the call was to engage with the programs primary stakeholders. While the vehicle manufacturers, advocacy groups and utility companies are important, all of you are just as integral to effectively shaping the future of this program.

I also wanted to make a pitch for a workshop we are holding in Santa Barbara on Feb. 12 from 1:00pm to 3:00pm. If you or anyone is interested, please click on the following link to register http://www.energycenter.org/cvrp-events

The workshop will be very similar to the ones we have done across the state. With that being said, things have changed or are in the process of changing. If you were on the call this past week, you are likely up to speed. However, there are a great number of people that were not on the call so for them this will be new information.

Again, thank you for all your feedback. Keep it coming....


David

 

[Kataphn]

Hello All,

I wanted to thank all of you that attended the call earlier this week. I am glad to hear your feedback and would be happy to pass on your recommendations to ARB. The point of the call was to engage with the programs primary stakeholders. While the vehicle manufacturers, advocacy groups and utility companies are important, all of you are just as integral to effectively shaping the future of this program.

I also lurked on the conference call. An amazing number of stakeholders were on the call...rental companies, the car manufacturers themselves, the advocacy groups. I thought it was an interesting study in "policy making to promote the public good" to see the limitation of the fund to 4 passenger cars and above as a way to promote the buying of more general purposes cars like the LEAF. There was push back on that on the call but the staff stated the rationale clearly.

 

[LEAFer]

!!!!!! THE ANTICIPATED NEW FUNDS HAVE BEEN ADDED !!!!!!

 

[Glenn]

!!!!!! THE ANTICIPATED NEW FUNDS HAVE BEEN ADDED !!!!!!

David said they'd be updating the website the first week of February, and BINGO!!

Nice to see the commercial vehicles pulled out as well. So now instead of Range Anxiety a bunch of us Californians are gonna start experiencing Fund Depletion Anxiety!

Hurry up, Nissan. Tic, toc, tic, toc...

Glenn

 

[mxp]

!!!!!! THE ANTICIPATED NEW FUNDS HAVE BEEN ADDED !!!!!!

Hi LEAFer,

I am just catching up with the updates to this topic now that my delivery date is showing up on my dashboard as April 2011.

So, I havent read the thread in its entirety, but the big question is: Will there be enough funds in the kitty for folks getting their cars in April 2011?

Thanks.

 

[GeekEV]

Almost certainly. You can check the first post for the latest details, it's kept up to date. They just threw another $4mil into the pot too...

 

[LEAFer]

So, I havent read the thread in its entirety, but the big question is: Will there be enough funds in the kitty for folks getting their cars in April 2011?

Thanks.

Good question ... tough to answer, of course. Seeing the HUGE change in last couple of days (emails regarding delivery months March/April, "pending" changing to specific months, Nissan apparently really ramping up ...) only time will tell. But with (now) 1,332 $5k's left ... still seems ok ... but this forum does not have total visibility for all CA orders/deliveries either.

Don't forget there'll be a "wait list" system when current funds run out (but still higher risk of not getting a rebate). See last couple of pages for an update.

I'll continue to update the OP in this thread, not every day unless significant changes each day, as my time allows.

 

[LEAFer]

$380,000 worth of checks issued today ... start staking out your mailboxes

 

[smkettner]

My gut says the fund will run out late in April. Hard to tell until we see claims for February & March.

 

[Boomer23]

My gut says the fund will run out late in April. Hard to tell until we see claims for February & March.

Well, there is enough for a bit more than 1300 EVs to get the $5k at this point. Plus another $2 million possibly to be added this year, which is enough for 400 more rebates. So if 1700 LEAFs are delivered in California by the end of April, you'll be correct.

 

[LakeLeaf]

Thanks for all the work keeping the OP updated!

 

[LEAFer]

Another $300k in checks written today (But just 1x$5k in new "Reserved" funds claimed.)

 

[mxp]

Another $300k in checks written today (But just 1x$5k in new "Reserved" funds claimed.)

Hi LEAFer,

Many thanks for your efforts in keeping us all updated with the data. Truly appreciated!