AM: When you first came on board, you said that a car like the ELR was a priority for you. Is it still that way given where it's at saleswise? And also, how important do you feel hybrid and alternative powertrain technology and Super Cruise and things like that ... getting that kind of stuff across your lineup is important?
Ellinghaus: Put it this way: The ELR's a big disappointment; there's no denying, yet still I want it, and want it because it is a statement how progressive how Cadillac is and that we can tackle electromobility in the brand. But, it was also great learning exercise for all of us because maybe we asked too much. We tried to create a car that was the niche in the niche in the niche and that was where the volume ended.
So a coupe two-seat is already limited, right? Then, we spec'd it to the maximum degree and said we don't want a rolling declaration of sacrifices, and I approved that as well and said, no, we don't. We didn't want to position it as a green car, right? So I like the luxury features, but it priced it into a level where people started comparing it to, dare I say it, the Tesla. And then they said it has the same price. Nonsense, because our car comes fully equipped and the Tesla is completely naked. But the Tesla is a four-door, right?
And that's why my outtake is; we no longer go down this road that we have a certain car that has the electric credentials, the green credentials. Going forward, we’ll simply add plug-in hybrid-electric modes into almost all our cars. So the CT6, one year after it's launched, will get a plug-in version, and future cars and SUVs will as well. I think this is the way forward for the entire industry. It will no longer be possible to emulate Tesla's success. Tesla only is so successful because they have the belief in the electric engine being the sole engine on board. We were concerned in this industry about ranges, and the anxiety of getting stuck led us to add a combustion engine, and that caused the counter-reaction by some folks saying, "No, I am serious, I wanted a sole electric." And I think that's a minority. The majority, particularly not in urban areas, will need longer ranges, and for them, a plug-in hybrid is probably the best version.
But if all manufacturers offer it because the CAFE legislation, then why invest in this technology? It's no longer a differentiating aspect to have. I think I said it this morning before Andrew [Smith] heard it, it will become the next all-wheel drive. Some will want it, and take the box and the price list, and others not. And that's why I think it becomes an entry ticket into luxury automobiles rather than a differentiating aspect.
AM: Speaking of future propulsion, there’s a lot of talk about electric versus hydrogen fuel cells.
Ellinghaus: Hydrogen is infrastructure. I have some experiences there. I worked for BMW for 15 years. I say one thing: If you look at the environmental balance of electromobility as it is now, it makes no sense whatsoever. Nobody wants to hear it. But as long as the majority of the energy is generated from fossil fuels ... and that's about 80 percent right? U.S. ... the environmental balance is negative. Nobody wants to hear it because for whatever reason, electric power was always clean, and nobody cared how it got into it, right? It's still the case. So the Tesla, and electromobility per se, are not by definition good for the environment, on the contrary. I do believe that very long-term hydrogen is really the way ... but I also realize that this industry needs to change its thinking in boxes, and in, let's say, their own way forward because hydrogen failed. Even in Germany, where the government for a while was very excited about it, two leading manufacturers could simply not agree on the approach. And we see this with the fuel cell which requires hydrogen in a gaseous form, and we, at BMW at that time, insisted no, we wanted a regular combustion engine, and that means liquid. And then, the politicians had the perfect argument to say, "If you cannot even agree on a standard, we will not build infrastructure." And I cannot even blame them.