New Nissan LEAF Survey

[evnow]

Range is not the only strong suit of Tesla's, the battery does much better in Arizona, than the Leaf's

We'll have to see how the new "hot" battery performs. If it does well, without active thermal management, it would be a + for Leaf.

 

[thankyouOB]

Not necessarily. Nissan has already demonstrated a Leaf with a 48Wkh battery pack. Very few details about this pack have been released, but we know it exists. Tesla, however, has not demonstrated a Model-E, or even so much as shown us a rendering of what it will look like.

Range is not the only strong suit of Tesla's, the battery does much better in Arizona, than the Leaf's

i didnt write that. please attribute the quote to the right person.

 

[evnow]

I didn't get the survey !

But $5k for doubling the range is very encouraging.

So, in 2017 we may be looking at

- $30k Leaf w/ 150 mile range vs
- $40k Model E w/ 200 mile range

What would you pick ?

 

[GIBBER]

Got mine yesterday also, almost finished it, then it began asking the typical demographic questions about gender, annual income, and the like. Unfortunately, these required mandatory answers which I prefer to not do so I exited the survey and my input was lost to Nissan.
.

Yet you publish your license plate on a public internet forum... :?:

How is the License plate an issue? Most if not all states by now do not allow any information to be given out by the motor vehicle departments. California and others dis-allowed it long ago after that actress was murdered at home by a crazed fan who obtained her address via the DMV.

 

[BoulderLeaf]

I really hope that they are planning on using the original LEAF battery dimensions as a design guideline going forward so that they can be as interchangeable as possible. Early comments from Nissan seem to support this. I hope this isn't just wishful thinking on my part though.

I hope your right. If so, we might see the new battery as an option on the existing bodystyle so we could see this on a 2014 or 2015 Leaf. However, I'm personally thinking less than a 20% chance this will happen. More likely that they will be doing this for a new bodystyle with more room for batteries.

A Nissan executive was very recently quoted as saying that the current gen LEAF will get "a reliable 125 miles" of range. I'm actually unclear if the second generation LEAF starts MY16 or MY17, but that could mean as soon as MY15 we'd see a pretty big boost in range. It isn't going to happen in MY14; that ship has already sailed as they are now sitting on dealer lots.

This touches on an interesting point though. Do we know what Nissan did to get the "hot" battery that will start going into MY14 LEAF's starting in April? Could this actually be a smaller version of the new NMC chemistry battery, if that chemistry is more stable and heat resistant? I would think that having yet another chemistry is going to be expensive for Nissan, both in terms of time and money, but who knows.

 

[DaveEV]

Do we know what Nissan did to get the "hot" battery that will start going into MY14 LEAF's starting in April? Could this actually be a smaller version of the new NMC chemistry battery, if that chemistry is more stable and heat resistant? I would think that having yet another chemistry is going to be expensive for Nissan, both in terms of time and money, but who knows.

The rumor is that they will be using a ceramic coated separator from Polypore instead of the non-ceramic coated separator they are using now. LG is already using a ceramic coated separator for the batteries going in the Volt. GM went all out in making sure that the Volt pack would last a long time.

 

[DanCar]

The rumor is that they will be using a ceramic coated separator from Polypore instead of the non-ceramic coated separator they are using now. LG is already using a ceramic coated separator for the batteries going in the Volt. GM went all out in making sure that the Volt pack would last a long time.

Here is a different theory: Given that there hasn't been significant battery loss reported in 2013 cars, suggest that the separator was added to 2013's and that the mid 2014 change is about an NMC battery. One minus against this theory is that Nissan itself said that the hot battery was mid 2014. But perhaps they are thinking of a very hot battery. A plus for this theory is that Nissan has said that longer range battery is coming soon and delayed LE and e-nv200 for the new battery. E-nv200 is scheduled for production mid year, right around the time that the new hot battery is suppose to be available.

 

[ERG4ALL]

Hopefully, we will see the new battery sooner than later. I was at the dealership yesterday and because I'm pretty technical, they allowed me to speak with their top LEAF mechanic. They rave about this guy being one of the best in the country. When discussing the survey with him, I said that Nissan asked about filling the battery from 30% to 80% in 10 minutes. He indicated that the Pathfinder hybrid has a battery that charges amazingly fast and that it is an Li-ion battery that is very different from the LEAF battery. Thus, maybe the battery they are talking about in the survey is already in existence. Perhaps Nissan is now testing the waters to see if they can make any money off of it at whatever price point they might choose.

 

[TomT]

The requirements for a hybrid battery and a BEV battery are very different so it is not likely that much of the technology would carry over...

He indicated that the Pathfinder hybrid has a battery that charges amazingly fast and that it is an Li-ion battery that is very different from the LEAF battery. Thus, maybe the battery they are talking about in the survey is already in existence. Perhaps Nissan is now testing the waters to see if they can make any money off of it at whatever price point they might choose.

 

[jhm614]

Hopefully, we will see the new battery sooner than later. I was at the dealership yesterday and because I'm pretty technical, they allowed me to speak with their top LEAF mechanic. They rave about this guy being one of the best in the country. When discussing the survey with him, I said that Nissan asked about filling the battery from 30% to 80% in 10 minutes. He indicated that the Pathfinder hybrid has a battery that charges amazingly fast and that it is an Li-ion battery that is very different from the LEAF battery. Thus, maybe the battery they are talking about in the survey is already in existence. Perhaps Nissan is now testing the waters to see if they can make any money off of it at whatever price point they might choose.

I almost hate to admit this, but I would be interested in an EREV Pathfinder. Take the (assumed) new chemistry battery, drop 24 kWh into the Pathfinder, keep the supercharged 4 and that could be my next vehicle. Although, I did like the old body style better -- mo' butch. So maybe what I really want is a EREV Murano?

j.

 

[DaveEV]

Given that there hasn't been significant battery loss reported in 2013 cars.

There's someone in Arizona with a '13 already showing a good amount of loss in his - LEAFfan.

My AH actually dropped during fall/winter as I lost my first bar in Dec.

He got his '13 LEAF in Feb 2013.

 

[DanCar]

Given that there hasn't been significant battery loss reported in 2013 cars.

There's someone in Arizona with a '13 already showing a good amount of loss in his - LEAFfan.

My AH actually dropped during fall/winter as I lost my first bar in Dec.

He got his '13 LEAF in Feb 2013.

Thanks! Been looking out for that info for sometime.

 

[DaveEV]

Of course that is one of the first '13s, so its possible that later cars have slightly different packs (perhaps coinciding with the low GID readings off the lot?)

Impossible to say at this point.

 

[KJD]

I didn't get the survey !
But $5k for doubling the range is very encouraging.
So, in 2017 we may be looking at
- $30k Leaf w/ 150 mile range vs
- $40k Model E w/ 200 mile range
What would you pick ?

Still have not received the survey, but I agree that 5,000 for doubling the range is the way to stay in the ballgame.

They really need to do this sooner than 2017 or Tesla is going to own this entire market when the Model E hits production.

A Tesla at 40k would be my choice.

 

[Stoaty]

They really need to do this sooner than 2017 or Tesla is going to own this entire market when the Model E hits production.

A Tesla at 40k would be my choice.

For me it depends on a combination of range, price and efficiency. One of the reasons I wouldn't want a model S is how inefficient it is compared to the Leaf.

 

[pkulak]

Which is sort of irritating. Personally, I'd like to see a large distribution of L2 stations with maybe a 10 to 1 ratio of L2 to L3. My reasoning has always been that I'd rather see L2 stations in every parking lot, which are much cheaper to install, than have a few L3 stations scattered around the area.

Really? I never use L2 away from home, and still wouldn't even bother if they were in every parking lot. 70 miles is plenty to drive anywhere in the city and there's no way I'm waiting 3 hours next to the freeway when I need to take a trip. L3 chargers placed every 30 miles along major freeways is actually not that expensive and means you can drive _anywhere_.

 

[cwerdna]

Just finished the survey. Yes, I noticed they were very clear about the 150 EPA rated miles in many of the questions.

One thing I found difficult to answer about the charging was they did not make a distinction between level-2 charging and DC fast charging. They just asked "how long would you expect it to take" As such, I answered most of those with the presumption that I'm charging on Level-2.

Ditto on the 150 EPA miles.

As for your latter point, yes, that was also VERY confusing for me. I don't exactly know if they're referring to DC FC or L2 w/those. I also answered assuming L2 (~30+ amps @ 208/240 volts) for all of them except Nissan/Infiniti dealer. I at least have a basis of comparison since I have the 6 kW OBC and use EVSEs capable of that.

They should've broken it out about L2 vs. DC FC.

(Haven't had time to read all the responses to this thread yet.)

L2 are useless, L1 are better for 8 hour parking at work and much cheaper. DCQC Chademo are game changers for a metro area. 20 minute for 80% charging can't be beat.

I disagree about L2 being useless. It's not very useful w/a 3.3 kW OBC for topping off or gaining some range unless you're parked for a long time, as it's so slow. Yes, workplaces should have a mix of L1s and L2s.

I use (free) L2 at work and it's plenty fast for me in most cases (short commute).

I've sometimes used some free L2s at http://www.plugshare.com/?location=7989" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; while either on the way home (I'll stop and read emails or surf the net on my phones) or I'll charge there and walk over to the Chipotle to eat. I'd only do that if I'm not going working in the next day or if for some reason, I don't have enough juice to make it to work the next day (e.g. long side trip after work). 6 kW OBC rocks!

As for CHAdeMO and DC FCing, well, yeah, if you regularly take trips where it'd help and you can find a reliable and available DC FC along the way. I've used my CHAdeMO port a whopping 1 time in the 6 months I've had my Leaf and it wasn't a great experience (already posted about it). And, the the DC FC at the closest dealer to me (same place I'd gone where I'd used their DC FC) has been down for weeks. I could use one at say Boardwalk Nissan if I went up to SF, but I've heard of lines of 5-7 Leafs long!

 

[DaveEV]

L3 chargers placed every 30 miles along major freeways is actually not that expensive and means you can drive _anywhere_.

30 miles apart is too far. Really half that distance is better if you wish to optimize travel speeds since you want to arrive at a station near LBW and charge to 70-80% to maximize amount of energy drawn over time. With stations spaced at 30 mile intervals, that doesn't allow for much optimization. Plus, redundancy is needed, anyway. Really difficult to rely on a single QC station to keep you on schedule and from getting stranded.

 

[dgpcolorado]

Really? I never use L2 away from home, and still wouldn't even bother if they were in every parking lot. 70 miles is plenty to drive anywhere in the city and there's no way I'm waiting 3 hours next to the freeway when I need to take a trip. L3 chargers placed every 30 miles along major freeways is actually not that expensive and means you can drive _anywhere_.

That's fine for you but if my winter range is 60 miles and I need to make a 65 mile trip, some L2 stations would be the difference between making it or not. The idea that unless one can charge for hours L2 is not useful is nonsense: it depends on how much charge one needs to make it home.

I've noticed that the people who dismiss L2 charge stations as useless seem to have lots of them around. I have none: zero, zip, nada. To make my grocery runs next winter I may have to persuade a local RV park to let me charge on 240 V at a reasonable price. It would be so much easier to just plug into an L2 charge station for a half hour or so.

So, fight all you want about the utility of DCFC. For very large swathes of the country DCFC doesn't exist and it is exceedingly unlikely that it will for the foreseeable future (which is why I bought an SV without a QC port). The real solution for longer distance travel is the Tesla model: longer on-board range and a more limited network of superchargers. For local driving L2 can be the difference between taking the LEAF or taking the ICE car, as the battery degrades.

 

[thankyouOB]

i agree with cwerdna.
the survey lacked any subtlety in choices in many areas.
i mean how do you answer what you rate charging availability at a restaurant (or any other establishment), when the decision is totally based on whether it is 10 miles from your home or more than 30?
every choice ran afoul of that and you could not add any qualifiers.