my opinion on electric car after 2300 miles on my leaf

[paulk]

I drove my new leaf for about 2300 miles now, approaching two months and here my thoughts:
let me know what you think.

first of all, it's a great car. I like the drive, how it handles, the fact that it's pure electic, never have to stop for gas, great for the environment, low maintanance cost, carpool lane access and $ 10k rebates.
all these factors added up to decide to lease the car but is this car worth it in long run?

when often the range of leaf is the main concern for majority of the drivers, I had to compare the numbers on electricity cost vs. gasoline cost of hybrids (prius).
we drove our leaf for 1250 miles each month and ended up paying $ 80-85 on electricity so far.
this is far more than what some of other city drivers were claiming but the rates may differ by your area anyways.
when you calculate the cost of gasoline on prius when driven same miles (1250) with gasoline per gallon costing around $ 3.50 /gallon average here in Southern Cal, with average of 45 miles per gallon, you end up paying about $ 97 a month.

that's a difference of only about $ 15-20 per month!!

with the range limitations and limited / time consuming charging station availibility, I think it's still too early to go 100% electric.

let me know what you think?

 

[epic]

what is your rate.I figure 1250 miles to cost me under $30.You must be at 30-40 cents per kw?with my leaf at 1000 miles per month & the cmax energI at about 1300 miles per month .my a/c ,heat ,lights ,etc.my bills are only about 80 with no a/c & up to 300 with a/c on the hottest month .I pay about 11 cents per kw

 

[GeekEV]

Electric rates are key to this discussion. I'm at the national average of $0.11/kWh. At a driving style of 3mi/kWh, for the same 45 miles that gallon of gas would get you, that works out to $1.65. Less than half the cost of gas. 45mi / 3mi/kWh = 15kWh * $0.11 = $1.65

 

[UkrainianKozak]

How do you calculate your electricity cost?
You either drive very inefficiently or your electricity cost it way higher than average...
I'm driving about 1100mi/month and it cost me about $30-35. as measured by Blink charger, and it seems to be consistent with by electric bill comparing year over year electricity consumption before and after Leaf.
Can you provide your mi/kwh from the dashboard and your electric rates?

 

[planet4ever]

paulk said Southern California. In California you don't have a single "rate" and in most of the state you do pay through the nose. With the exception of a few scattered municipal utilities you can't justify an EV based on gas savings in California unless you generate your own electricity. 30¢ to 40¢ per kilowatt hour is quite typical when you look at marginal rates, which is the correct way to look at it. California has graduated "tiers", so the more electricity you use the more you pay per kilowatt hour. Think of it as like income tax. Charging an EV puts you up into a high bracket.

Ray

 

[paulk]

last time I checked, I drive at about 4 miles /kwh which I think is not bad. I try to drive conservatively.

I called Edison as they were advertising on helping on saving electricity when owning a EV but no help at all.
all they are doing is calculating to see if which basis (tier vs. flat) is most cost saving.

more you use, higher the rates get and it does get ridiculously high, here in Southern Cal.

I guess I have no option at this point than to feel better knowing I contribute to the environment.

 

[LeftieBiker]

Are most of you people posting via mobile devices? It's like reading poorly formatted telegrams...

I think that when you subtract the extra required services for a Prius (and more so for most other ICE vehicles) the cost of driving swings more firmly in favor of the Leaf. It's already the consensus here that you shouldn't own a Leaf as your only car unless you live and work in the same urban or suburban area and rarely take long trips. Still, with most American families owning two or more vehicles, the Leaf makes perfect sense as the second car in most circumstances.

 

[TLeaf]

If you are looking from a purely financial standpoint, then most here would have to admit that "no", EVs are not ready for the mass market yet. Certainly the savings are there, $100 per 1,000 miles is my own calculation, but you admittedly have to shell out a bit up-front in order to get those savings. This side of the equation will change (and is changing), though, as more used EVs show up on the market and people start being able to buy a gently used LEAF for $10-15K.

Counting pennies on gasoline savings isn't the only factor, though. For some people, driving a luxury car is worth an extra $60K up-front plus a premium-fuel and poor fuel economy surchage of several hundred per year. For me, choosing an EV was well worth the added investment knowing that I wouldn't be generating as much pollution. If I had to attach a dollar amount to this sentiment, I'd consider freeing myself from gas stations worth another couple hundred per year, if not more.

 

[Tomasz]

I guess I have no option at this point than to feel better knowing I contribute to the environment.

Or use free charging whenever/wherever available.

Plus you need to calculate change in maintenance costs (or lack of them). If you drive 1250 miles a month you probably can add at least $10/month for oil changes on the Prius side that you will never spend on Leaf. Air filter? Transmission fluid? Antifreeze? Spark plugs? O2 sensors? (note: I have never owned a Prius, have no idea what maintenance is scheduled there).

 

[tombobcat]

last time I checked, I drive at about 4 miles /kwh which I think is not bad. I try to drive conservatively.

I called Edison as they were advertising on helping on saving electricity when owning a EV but no help at all.
all they are doing is calculating to see if which basis (tier vs. flat) is most cost saving.

more you use, higher the rates get and it does get ridiculously high, here in Southern Cal.

I guess I have no option at this point than to feel better knowing I contribute to the environment.

I had Edison installed 2nd meter and I'm on EV1 rate which is 11c/KW from 9pm to 12am.

 

[davidcary]

Funny - I went from a Honda Civic Hybrid getting 50 mpg - so paying 7 cents a mile.

Now I charge at night at $.05 a kwh and I routinely get 4.5 mi/kwh dash so we can say 4 mi/kwh wall - so 1.2 cents a mile. What is that an 80% savings. Throw in free charging at work and the savings is 90%. I basically look at it as $100 a month down to $10. So roughly $1000 per year savings.

Now - the Leaf handles better, is much faster and much less vibration under hard acceleration, no significant efficiency penalty by accelerating fast, Leaf has better heater and far better a/c, bigger, etc etc

And I have several work locations with free charging at one of the most distant ones (15 miles), so I can drive 100 miles in a day and come home with 50% left (this just happened yesterday as I went back and forth to the distant location).

But yes in CA, the financial incentive is much less. Maybe that is why so many EV owners in CA have solar (isn't it a majority?). But comparing a Leaf to a Prius isn't totally fair since the Leaf is far more enjoyable to drive.

 

[RegGuheert]

...Leaf has better heater...

I'm with you on all the rest, but if we are divvying up cars, my wife prefers our 2003 HCH in the wintertime because there is plenty of waste heat available. Perhaps you have a heat pump in your LEAF? (Although the LEAF is nice when we preheat the cabin!)

 

[walterbays]

I guess I have no option at this point than to feel better knowing I contribute to the environment.

http://www.sce.com/wps/portal/home/residential/electric-cars/

If you have an electric vehicle, you have 3 options. You can choose one of 2 electric vehicle rate plans with lower costs for charging at night, or you can opt to stay on your current Residential Rate Plan

Under the tiered residential plan you would be paying 31 cents in tier 3. Separately metered EV rate gives you 11 cents overnight. With a single meter you can get as low as 9 cents overnight but that would also require shifting much of your house load which might not be feasible. A fourth option if you own your roof is to install enough solar panels to put you in tier 1 of the Residential Rate and pay 13 cents. A fifth option is to get solar panels from one of those companies that install them at no cost with a long term fixed price electricity purchase contract.

 

[Graffi]

In San Diego using SDG&E, I was able to get the Baseline (Rate of $0.11/kwh) increased to 819kwh because of a "Medical Device", in my case, a C-PAP machine. Each month we stay in the baseline rate and never exceed it.

Our average is just over 4 mi/kwh (lots of ups and downs). Last night I got up to over 8 mi/kwh from home to freeway but then slowly went down driving 65 mgh. Then going back up hill returning home ate away at what I did have and ended up the trip of 35 miles at 4.1 mi/kwh.

In three months we drove 4,500 miles, most of it on our home EVSE, but some on the dealer's DCQC. Even if we paid for it all, it would be less than $50. The ICE gets about 25 mpg, so that would be 180 gallons at about $4 /gal = $720. That is a fuel savings of $670 over three months, or $223 per month.

 

[greengate]

I bought mine for only one reason; NO TAILPIPE.

All additional benefits are like a desert tray.

 

[Randy3]

I've shown both my LEAF and my Mitsubishi i-MiEV at several events. One of the most difficult things to address is the electrical cost. Many people in our area (California Central Valley) already pay PG&E hundreds of dollars per month in the summer for AC or suffer in 110 degree heat. Telling them to use more electricity isn't always easy.

So I try to present the EV in combination with other electricity savings strategies. This can be PV solar panels (either purchased or leased), changing to a PG&E time of use plans, separate meters, or whatever. Then, when I talk numbers, I just give my own experience. I bought my LEAF in winter 2011 and saw my electric bill go up $25 per month for 1,000 miles driven. I could see that I'd be paying 3 times that in the summer due to the AC (when moving from Tier 1 to Tier 3 is common). This justified taking the rebates from buying the car ($5,000 at the time from CARB and $3,000 from the San Joaquin Valley Air District) to buy a PV solar system. This has worked out very well for us, but it may not work for everyone. The point is to bring it up before they get the car.

 

[nosuchthing]

I switched from PG&E E7 to TOU EV rate. I'm down from 28 cents to 18 cents/kW on average. EV rate is only available to EV owners (VIN required).

I need solar. That's for damn sure.

 

[RonDawg]

Plus you need to calculate change in maintenance costs (or lack of them). If you drive 1250 miles a month you probably can add at least $10/month for oil changes on the Prius side that you will never spend on Leaf. Air filter? Transmission fluid? Antifreeze? Spark plugs? O2 sensors? (note: I have never owned a Prius, have no idea what maintenance is scheduled there).

You can save money on maintenance with a Leaf IF you know exactly what is needed and are very insistent with the dealer service writers. As I posted on a different thread, my car will be coming due for its one year service, and I have gotten quotes ranging from $89 to $300. The ones more than about $200 include a brake fluid flush, IMHO totally unnecessary at the one year mark. Some folks think the 2 year recommended interval is excessive.

 

[Valdemar]

last time I checked, I drive at about 4 miles /kwh which I think is not bad. I try to drive conservatively.

I called Edison as they were advertising on helping on saving electricity when owning a EV but no help at all.
all they are doing is calculating to see if which basis (tier vs. flat) is most cost saving.

more you use, higher the rates get and it does get ridiculously high, here in Southern Cal.

I guess I have no option at this point than to feel better knowing I contribute to the environment.

I had Edison installed 2nd meter and I'm on EV1 rate which is 11c/KW from 9pm to 12am.

You meant 12pm of course? Yes, both LADWP and Edison have discounted EV TOU rates for charging during off-peak hours, however the up-front cost to get on them can be higher as you need to split the service to 2 meters vs. just adding an extra breaker to an existing panel for an L2 EVSE or nothing at all if L1 is sufficient.

 

[Valdemar]

If you drive 1250 miles a month you probably can add at least $10/month for oil changes on the Prius side that you will never spend on Leaf.

Last time I checked Prius service manual calls for 10k mile/1 year oil change interval, so $10/mo is a bit too much unless you go to a place that charges $80 for an oil change on a Prius (I'm sure they do exist).