Meeting with Nissan, Phoenix, Jan 8, 2013, 6pm, drinks prior

[Nubo]

:lol:

 

[Desertstraw]

After I read about the new fast charger at Picacho Peak, I wanted to know if I could now drive from Phoenix to Tucson. The plan was to fully charge at the fast charger at 7755 S, Research Drive, Tempe and then drive the 68.5 miles to Picacho Peak, the car is EPA rated at 72 miles and with careful driving I could extend that a bit so it should be doable. Just to test the plan, I tested my car for maximum range by driving down 101 to I-10 and back to my home at a speed of 60 mph on the highways in ECO mode. The test was not successful, I barely got back by crawling the last ten miles, and ended with an actual range of 72. I concluded that the trip was not feasible with my car because the margin of safety was too small and that holding my speed down to 60 when everybody was going faster was not safe either.

The purpose of this post is to raise the question of battery deterioration in the Phoenix area. I have had my Leaf for a year and a half and have put only about 6000 miles on it. During the two summers my car was not garaged in an airconditioned garage. I still have all 12 bars on my dashboard, although a man named Gary whom I met at the charger measured my SOC with his meter and said that I was on the verge of losing one bar.

The loss of range in this area is usually attributed to high mileage in combination with the heat. My experience seems to indicate that the problem is ambient temperature not range. If so, is the Leaf suitable for a hot climate and is the problem Nissan's choice of cooling for the battery?

 

[cwerdna]

^^^
Have you missed the 510 page thread at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=196216" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and the other thread at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=9694" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;?

By meter, probably someone plugged in a "gid"-meter (http://www.mynissanleaf.com/wiki/index.php?title=Glossary" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false, w/the "unit" gid being named after garygid.

 

[Hawk0630]

Good Morning, this is Jeff from Nissan.

I note the interest from a number of people who may not be able to attend the town hall. As much as we would like to stop in and do similar events in LA, SF, Portland and Seattle in quick succession, this was our first opportunity when Andy would be in the U.S. and we could only do one event. However, we will try and answer lots of questions. I will serve as moderator; Chelsea and Tony are aggregating questions. I'm happy to ask questions in any order that they suggest. Also, I'll talk with them and we'll determine the best way to address any unanswered questions, whether we answer and post on mynissanleaf.com or some other platform.

Looking forward to meeting everyone on Tuesday. And thanks to Tim, Chelsea and Tony for their help in pulling this together over the holidays.

Jeff

 

[JeremyW]

Looking forward to meeting everyone on Tuesday.

Can you folks please give us a time? I want to buy my plane ticket today. Thank you very much.

 

[evchels]

Thanks, all for the feedback-

Evening it is! 6pm start time, and those who want to come earlier to see the new LEAF and/or socialize with each other are of course welcome to do so.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Thanks, all for the feedback-

Evening it is! 6pm start time, and those who want to come earlier to see the new LEAF and/or socialize with each other are of course welcome to do so.

Awesome.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

i suppose a meeting near Seattle for those of us dealing with cold weather range degradation is out of the question?

 

[edatoakrun]

Good Morning, this is Jeff from Nissan.

I note the interest from a number of people who may not be able to attend the town hall. As much as we would like to stop in and do similar events in LA, SF, Portland and Seattle in quick succession, this was our first opportunity when Andy would be in the U.S. and we could only do one event. However, we will try and answer lots of questions...
Jeff

Jeff,

I’ll as my question here, as neither Nissan Spokesmen or those selected for the advisory board have shown much interest in what I believe may be my own LEAF’s most significant defect, and one likely to affect all LEAF owners, or at least those in hotter climates, the apparent inaccuracy of The LEAFs energy use reports.

Now that we all know the capacity bar loss reports, as well as aftermarket SOC and “gid” meters seem to show significant inaccuracy (AKA “gauge error”) the kWh use reports form our LEAFs would seem to be the only way we have to determine our present battery capacity, and any loss in capacity from delivery.

So, my question is, are the kWh use reports from Carwings, also available from the dash and navscreen as m/kWh (as reduced in accuracy by any odometer error) also subject to “gauge error” as my own and many other LEAF drivers experiences suggest?

If we cannot depend on these energy use reports, we would seem have no way to verify our battery capacity is at the “70%” warranty level, or at any other.

If the LEAF energy use reports are commonly and significantly in error, when can we expect a repair to restore our LEAFs' energy use reports to a reasonable level of accuracy?

Ed

 

[evchels]

My original understanding was that this Phoenix Town Hall was going to address the early degradation of AZ and other hot climate batteries. But it now appears to be a bit of a free for all...

This meeting is meant primarily to talk about the battery topic though peripheral questions will come in too, I'm sure. But folks are welcome to submit questions on any topic, and I'll put them on the "master" list I've been keeping to be answered even if not at this meeting.

 

[thankyouOB]

question number one:

What will the installed cost be for a new battery, and a refurbished battery?-- included in that is the implicit question of what value Nissan will credit for trading in the old battery?

 

[SilverLeaf]

Anytime on Tuesday works fine for me. I plan to attend regardless of the time. I'd also be interested if the 2013 firmware upgrades can be retrofitted to the 2011/2012 model year LEAFs.

 

[EdmondLeaf]

I assume that many(or just some) that lost capacity bar(s) sold/traded Leaf with financial loss. Any incentives from Nissan is they will be willing to get on Leaf wagon again?

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

what value Nissan will credit for trading in the old battery?

Not a high priority question but related, isn't the old battery worth about as much as used toilet paper? That part about reusing old modules as stationary power storage, that's pretty much a PR fantasy right?

 

[evchels]

CS: Hello, I'm Chelsea Sexton. Press OK to continue.

TW: [Tony Williams ostentatiously presses a large button on the podium]

CS: I'd like to thank you all for coming today. Press OK to continue.

TW: [Presses button]...

There's a line in there about pushing my buttons! Ok, many...

 

[JPWhite]

This meeting is meant primarily to talk about the battery topic though peripheral questions will come in too,

OK My bad, I must have missed a memo or two along the way
I saw it was a meeting with several of the advisory committee members present, so made the 'assumption' this is an advisory committee meeting and asked questions targeted to the purpose of the committee.

Let us know when the advisory committee first meets and I'l put in any of my questions.

 

[evchels]

This meeting is meant primarily to talk about the battery topic though peripheral questions will come in too,

OK My bad, I must have missed a memo or two along the way
I saw it was a meeting with several of the advisory committee members present, so made the 'assumption' this is an advisory committee meeting and asked questions targeted to the purpose of the committee.

Let us know when the advisory committee first meets and I'l put in any of my questions.

I'm sorry for the confusion; I know this is coming together somewhat last minute, but we wanted to seize the opportunity to have this meeting in AZ when it came up.

Tony and Phil actually aren't tasked with the general advisory board, but I've asked them to be part of a more focused effort on this battery issue once it became clear that it was not going to be resolved as quickly as we'd hoped some months ago.

However, questions on any topic are welcome (pm or email are fine too) and I will start to circulate a similar list of questions and topics for the general advisory board in another thread, especially as we are tentatively coming up on a meeting between Nissan and the board in a few weeks. But if we can get some answered tuesday in addition to the main discussion, even better!

 

[SilverLeaf]

Anytime on Tuesday works fine for me. I plan to attend regardless of the time. I'd also be interested if the 2013 firmware upgrades can be retrofitted to the 2011/2012 model year LEAFs.

I do have a question about the auxiliary battery:

With a gas powered car in Phoenix, average battery life is about two years. When the battery is nearing depletion, the hard cranking appears during the last 3-4 starts.

What is the expected aux battery life in Phoenix for our LEAFs. How will we know when it nears depletion, and needs to be replaced?

I'd like not to unable to start the LEAF, as the only notification.

 

[LEAFfan]

Anytime on Tuesday works fine for me. I plan to attend regardless of the time. I'd also be interested if the 2013 firmware upgrades can be retrofitted to the 2011/2012 model year LEAFs.

I do have a question about the auxiliary battery:

With a gas powered car in Phoenix, average battery life is about two years. When the battery is nearing depletion, the hard cranking appears during the last 3-4 starts.

What is the expected aux battery life in Phoenix for our LEAFs. How will we know when it nears depletion, and needs to be replaced?

I'd like not to unable to start the LEAF, as the only notification.

We need a software update that would show the Volts. Right now, we have to use a Volt meter to check it from time to time.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Not a high priority question but related, isn't the old battery worth about as much as used toilet paper? That part about reusing old modules as stationary power storage, that's pretty much a PR fantasy right?

couldnt be farther from the truth. a battery in a car has weight/performance ratios that needs to be maintained which means as degradation advances that ratio becomes less and less desirable.

now, someone came up with the number of 70% which means that when 30% of the original capacity is gone, the extra weight of the useless battery is now an anchor.

but 70% still says that there is over 15,000 watts of power left. that is a lot. in stationary applications where weight is not an issue. (the modules can easily be reconfigured to be more "stackable") you can literally store 200 Kwh of degraded power in a closet. that is HUGE.