March 2013 Nissan battery pack replacement survey.

[Herm]

Maybe you guys should consider leasing the battery for 3 years and then getting a new one at that time.. the old battery can be leased again at a lower cost, depending on remaining capacity.

 

[EatsShootsandLeafs]

I maybe missed the thread, but has Nissan STILL yet to release a cost on replacing an entire pack?

 

[thankyouOB]

^^^
nothing yet, sir.

 

[Petecomp1]

I didn't get a survey (I guess because I am a leaseholder) but I read all your comments for which I thank all of you who wrote. (Disclaimer: I'm writing off the top of my head because I'm too lazy to go find and read the entire survey).
In my view it appears Nissan has chosen to follow the all-too-typical bureaucratic template of releasing a survey for a select subset of customers, with a carefully crafted set of questions; the goal being to reinforce an agenda within the Nissan organization, not to actually benefit the customers or the product. This survey is definitely (from what all of you have written) not intended to serve the best interests of the customer. As with all "surveys" of this ilk, most or all of the questions ignore or omit the points of most interest to the people taking the survey, who are frustrated that they cannot express the most important points surrounding the topic. Here they are:
1. Any question regarding the cost of replacement of Leaf's battery is ludicrous because that cost is currently unknown. (Idea! How about being able to order a pack from RockAuto and replace it myself!)
2. Exclusion of leaseholders reveals that someone at Nissan is selectively altering the outcome of the survey to meet an agenda. Nissan needs to "focus like a laser" on the issue of why people are not BUYING. I would BUY a Leaf if I could be assured of a planned program for periodic replacement of degraded battery pack, not a silly, meaningless warranty. IMHO this should be a part of the initial cost of the car.
Hope someone at Nissan gets a clue pretty soon: forget the surveys, fire the PR specialists and put those resources toward building better batteries at lower cost! Do this and you'll have customer waiting lists.
Bill in Benton City

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

with the very incomplete list of respondents here, it would be difficult for me to categorize who was and who was not sent a survey. there seems to be no distinct characteristics even among the limited sampling we have here.

I am a leaser and I did get the survey. the survey does depend on you providing specific answers to certain questions to access all the questions

 

[davewill]

I didn't get a survey (I guess because I am a leaseholder) but I read all your comments for which I thank all of you who wrote. ...
2. Exclusion of leaseholders reveals that someone at Nissan is selectively altering the outcome of the survey to meet an agenda. Nissan needs to "focus like a laser" on the issue of why people are not BUYING. I would BUY a Leaf if I could be assured of a planned program for periodic replacement of degraded battery pack, not a silly, meaningless warranty. IMHO this should be a part of the initial cost of the car. ...

I doubt it has anything to do with you being on a lease. Most of us who got the survey pre-ordered our cars from Nissan back in 2010 (or earlier), and have been receiving surveys ever since. I'm guessing you got your car more recently, and are simply not on their list. (does Nissan even have your email address?)

The survey was obviously intended to see what the market would bear when it came to battery replacements from Nissan. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[planet4ever]

I doubt it has anything to do with you being on a lease. Most of us who got the survey pre-ordered our cars from Nissan back in 2010 (or earlier), and have been receiving surveys ever since. I'm guessing you got your car more recently, and are simply not on their list.

2010 or earlier?? Come, now, Dave. The first orders were on August 31, 2010. And the first "pre-orders", if you can call them that, were on April 20, 2010 when we put down our fully refundable $100 to say we were interested. But Dave is right. Somewhere during that order and delivery process in 2010 and 2011 we were asked if we would like to participate in occasional surveys. I said yes, and have gotten a number of them.

But we deserve that and more for what we had to go through. I gave them the $100 on April 20, finally got the chance to officially order on September 2, and didn't get my car until May 2 the following year.

Ray

 

[TomT]

Nope, I was VERY early and didn't get a survey either so I don't think that is it. And, yes, I leased.

I doubt it has anything to do with you being on a lease. Most of us who got the survey pre-ordered our cars from Nissan back in 2010 (or earlier), and have been receiving surveys ever since. I'm guessing you got your car more recently, and are simply not on their list.

 

[davewill]

2010 or earlier?? Come, now, Dave. The first orders were on August 31, 2010. And the first "pre-orders", if you can call them that, were on April 20, 2010 when we put down our fully refundable $100 to say we were interested. ...

I honestly couldn't recall the details, but your dates are right now that I'm seeing them again.

Nope, I was VERY early and didn't get a survey either so I don't think that is it. And, yes, I leased.

Well, I leased and I certainly did get it. I do know that if you answered one of the early questions about interest in buying after the lease, "no" then you didn't get the battery replacement questions.

 

[nosuchthing]

I'd be very much interested in replacing my pack with a different chemistry pack that is more dense. It also seems that those packs we have now will not make it past 3 years/2000 charges.

I am hoping some enterprising auto mechanics will soon start the business of swapping packs with a 3rd party products just looking for a place to unload their wares. There was/is supposed to be an overcapacity in cell manufacturing.

Apart from that, Nissan will have to address replacement of these "first" packs as a matter of regular maintenance. We replace worn out parts in ICEs. Distributor, clutch, brake pads, starter...

Even the battery on occasion.

 

[ttweed]

It also seems that those packs we have now will not make it past 3 years/2000 charges.

Wow! You must be using the heck out of your Leaf to be expecting to get 2000 cycles in 3 years! That's almost 2 full charge cycles per day. We've probably done less than 400 full cycles in 2 years and 30,000 miles, and still have all 12 capacity bars showing. I don't expect our pack to be degraded anywhere near enough to replace it before at least 7 years and 100K miles.

TT

 

[philipscoggins]

I received a survey & I purchased an SL in Nov 2012

Philip

 

[nosuchthing]

[/quote]Wow! You must be using the heck out of your Leaf to be expecting to get 2000 cycles in 3 years! That's almost 2 full charge cycles per day. We've probably done less than 400 full cycles in 2 years and 30,000 miles, and still have all 12 capacity bars showing. I don't expect our pack to be degraded anywhere near enough to replace it before at least 7 years and 100K miles.[/quote] (didn't work this time)

I did not mean a full charge with every plugin. But we do plug the car in at least 2x per day. It's been constantly refueled.

At the same time I'm just throwing numbers around, I admit. The fact is, I still get around 70 miles freeway range now (at 36,000) but if the range drops to 60 it's not enough for us, meaning it's time to replace it. Hopefully with something better.

 

[ttweed]

Wow! You must be using the heck out of your Leaf to be expecting to get 2000 cycles in 3 years! That's almost 2 full charge cycles per day. We've probably done less than 400 full cycles in 2 years and 30,000 miles, and still have all 12 capacity bars showing. I don't expect our pack to be degraded anywhere near enough to replace it before at least 7 years and 100K miles.

(didn't work this time)

All you have to do to make the quote function work in your post is to take out the leading "/" in the first quote BBCode (and add "=ttweed" if you want to show the quote as mine). It's easy to edit it, as I have done here.

I did not mean a full charge with every plugin. But we do plug the car in at least 2x per day. It's been constantly refueled.

OK, I get what you mean now, but from what I understand, a full charge "cycle" is from empty to full, and a partial charge is a partial "cycle" as well. I don't expect the Leaf battery to be effected too terribly by 2000 shallow charge events, but by 2000 full cycles the pack will probably show significant degradation. We have poured 8,000kWh through the car so far in ~2 years and 30K miles, and if there is ~20kWh capacity in the pack, that would be 400 full cycles. To reach 2000 full cycles for us would be another 8 years and 120K miles. I would be ecstatic with that kind of performance out of the battery, but only time will tell how 2000 cycles and 10 years of aging actually effects the pack. Nissan's original advertising of the specs led me to believe it was possible when I bought the car.

At the same time I'm just throwing numbers around, I admit. The fact is, I still get around 70 miles freeway range now (at 36,000) but if the range drops to 60 it's not enough for us, meaning it's time to replace it. Hopefully with something better.

I still get 70 miles out of a full charge too, but don't have a long commute that must be done every day so the car will still serve us well with only 50 miles of range, or even less. We will just have to go to multiple charge events daily as you have if we want to go further on any particular day. Hopefully, there will be more convenient DCFC facilities around here by then that will make it less burdensome to do so, time-wise. It will add to the operating cost to have to charge at commercial facilities or at peak TOU times during the day, but it will still be better than buying gas!

TT

 

[KJD]

Hopefully, there will be more convenient DCFC facilities around here by then that will make it less burdensome to do so, time-wise. It will add to the operating cost to have to charge at commercial facilities or at peak TOU times during the day, but it will still be better than buying gas!
TT

Still waiting for a single DC charger to show up in this area. I agree with you if I had the choice of spending money at a DCFC or buying gas, I would rather buy electricity any day.

 

[TomT]

A cycle is considered one charge from empty to full. Two half charges would thus be considered one cycle. I estimate that I have about 400 cycles on my pack...

I did not mean a full charge with every plugin. But we do plug the car in at least 2x per day. It's been constantly refueled.