LEAF in Kansas City

[cdherman]

Thanks for the advice on tires and snow. I work at a production facility, so while I can do some telecommuting, unless it's severe weather, I need to be going to work. I wasn't worried about the battery. I have a 12 mile commute one way and can charge at work (and home, of course). But I was worried about traction. Yes, the commute can be mostly I-435 although right now I go back roads (Brighton mostly) to keep my miles/KWH up.

So I guess I'll hold off on the tire purchase and see how it does.

Thanks again and see you Saturday at the NDEW event.

Karl

Interesting little discussion. All depends on degree of need. On that 14" day of snow, I needed to get to work. A Leaf would not have gotten me there. But those are seldom.

With a 12 mile commute and opportunity for a charge at work, the battery issues are gone --- you can drive to work with the heater on full blast and make 12 miles -- unless you are moving at zero mph!!!

The only issue is choice of tires. There are some developments where the snowplowing is just plain worthless. Tires will not fix the problem. Most other areas, especially if you can wait an hour or two, you could get to work with a Leaf with the OEM tires. A good set of snow tires would make it easier though....

Have you thought about a set of chains? Germans love their chains. There are really nice chains that you could put on in an emergency to get out of your development and then take off at the local Quiktrip. I have a set for the Prius. In the Austrian Alps a couple years ago, was really impressed and had to have a set. Have never needed in KC, as I have a 4x4, but I bought the chains just in case we needed 2 vehicles that could get about in the snow.

Good luck.......

 

[ksnogas2112]

Interesting little discussion. All depends on degree of need. On that 14" day of snow, I needed to get to work. A Leaf would not have gotten me there. But those are seldom.
<edit>
The only issue is choice of tires. There are some developments where the snowplowing is just plain worthless. Tires will not fix the problem. Most other areas, especially if you can wait an hour or two, you could get to work with a Leaf with the OEM tires. A good set of snow tires would make it easier though....

Have you thought about a set of chains? Germans love their chains. There are really nice chains that you could put on in an emergency to get out of your development and then take off at the local Quiktrip. I have a set for the Prius. In the Austrian Alps a couple years ago, was really impressed and had to have a set. Have never needed in KC, as I have a 4x4, but I bought the chains just in case we needed 2 vehicles that could get about in the snow.

Good luck.......

Dad did chains in the early 80's when we had to go from Overland Park down to Sion Elementary @39th+Gillham and he had no problems except for the annoyance level of putting them on and taking off and that was a rear wheel drive Pinto. I would say the noise level when you hit a plowed street with those in the Leaf would be incredible.

 

[eclecticflower]

Interesting little discussion. All depends on degree of need. On that 14" day of snow, I needed to get to work. A Leaf would not have gotten me there. But those are seldom.
<edit>
The only issue is choice of tires. There are some developments where the snowplowing is just plain worthless. Tires will not fix the problem. Most other areas, especially if you can wait an hour or two, you could get to work with a Leaf with the OEM tires. A good set of snow tires would make it easier though....

Have you thought about a set of chains? Germans love their chains. There are really nice chains that you could put on in an emergency to get out of your development and then take off at the local Quiktrip. I have a set for the Prius. In the Austrian Alps a couple years ago, was really impressed and had to have a set. Have never needed in KC, as I have a 4x4, but I bought the chains just in case we needed 2 vehicles that could get about in the snow.

Good luck.......

Dad did chains in the early 80's when we had to go from Overland Park down to Sion Elementary @39th+Gillham and he had no problems except for the annoyance level of putting them on and taking off and that was a rear wheel drive Pinto. I would say the noise level when you hit a plowed street with those in the Leaf would be incredible.

If I recall correctly, some stretches of N. Brighton are really treacherous, unless that road has been flattened out with improvements like the updates made just north of Vivion Road, but I never get up past that intersection any more to see and I have my doubts. Under poor conditions, any vehicle would easily ditch on N. Brighton, regardless of tires, chains, 4WD, etc. It's just extremely hilly and steep. If it's negotiable enough, perhaps going east on Pleasant Valley Road to Searcy Creek Pkwy to I435 south would be a decent option, should there be a need to be present at your facility during bad weather. Our snow usually gets here in January, but we've had some early storms and the last couple of years have been unpredictable. It's good to be prepared and troubleshoot the issue, though.

Kathy

 

[ksnogas2112]

Supposed to be 41*F tonight. Any bet I get a 4 bar battery temp tomorrow on the campout? =)

 

[ksnogas2112]

Supposed to be 41*F tonight. Any bet I get a 4 bar battery temp tomorrow on the campout? =)

yup....4 temp bars hanging out in the campsite last night. Battery didn't warm up until drove the 20 miles back home today.

 

[eclecticflower]

Well Tom, looks like you won your bet!

It's fall and we need a LEAF fest before the weather turns. Anyone interested in a gathering, please chime in and note your best dates and times.

Karl was gracious enough to pass me a cabin air filter Saturday at Science City (IOU Karl, thanks!). He also scanned my battery with (I believe) LeafSpy and it's at 88% after 2 years and over 17,000 miles. Beats that silly 5 Star rating from Fenton Nissan (reality). Tom has lost a capacity bar, but I'd be interested to know how the other cars are faring. Let's meet soon.

Kathy

 

[MobileEV]

Well Tom, looks like you won your bet!

It's fall and we need a LEAF fest before the weather turns. Anyone interested in a gathering, please chime in and note your best dates and times.

Karl was gracious enough to pass me a cabin air filter Saturday at Science City (IOU Karl, thanks!). He also scanned my battery with (I believe) LeafSpy and it's at 88% after 2 years and over 17,000 miles. Beats that silly 5 Star rating from Fenton Nissan (reality). Tom has lost a capacity bar, but I'd be interested to know how the other cars are faring. Let's meet soon.

Kathy

Good to meet you Kathy! Here are a few snapshots from yesterday's event. I realized afterwards I should have gotten more people pics, not just cars.

https://plus.google.com/photos/108257482266237135669/albums/6059117291983937009?authkey=CJn_oqCU-srKkgE" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So far, I'm available parts of most the next few Sundays for a tech session, but my family plans change frequently. I wouldn't mind using Herman's floor jack setup for rotating my tires (hint, hint ).

My LEAFSpy setup is always with me if someone wants a reading done and screen shots emailed to you.

Karl

 

[cdherman]

I missed the event at Union Station. Work just decompensated..... I would like to take up Karl on his offer to scan a Leaf battery sometime....

Wish the day was smoother.......

EDIT: Karl and I were clearly posting simultaneously. Let me check with the near term calendar....

 

[ksnogas2112]

Well Tom, looks like you won your bet!

It's fall and we need a LEAF fest before the weather turns. Anyone interested in a gathering, please chime in and note your best dates and times.

Karl was gracious enough to pass me a cabin air filter Saturday at Science City (IOU Karl, thanks!). He also scanned my battery with (I believe) LeafSpy and it's at 88% after 2 years and over 17,000 miles. Beats that silly 5 Star rating from Fenton Nissan (reality). Tom has lost a capacity bar, but I'd be interested to know how the other cars are faring. Let's meet soon.

Kathy

You guys plan w/o me.
My schedule is all kinda weird. But sorta free on 9/26-28, free 10/10-12 (until 4pm), free but on call 10/17-19; free 10/24-26 but on call secondary, free 11/1 until 4, free 11/2 after 4, free 11/7-9

 

[eclecticflower]

So friends, I was the lucky winner of the "4-day free lease" (4 day extended test drive) of the BMW i3 EV that was at the Science City display on 9-13-14 (they purposely pulled my entry because I already own an EV - I verified that ).

Picked it up Saturday and here's my preliminary review. It's a very good little vehicle. Very sharp looking and extremely peppy and responsive. Powerful regen/stops almost immediately without braking (maybe that's a safety problem - no brake lights warning followers, unless you press the brake unnecessarily). Strange dial on the right-side steering column behind the steering wheel for "gear" shifting (very foreign/abnormal-feeling to me). Some dashboard electronics and display controls in the console area (also odd-feeling). You get used to these things. Nice tight turning radius, 3 modes of drive (Comfort mode is still stiffer than my LEAF). The interior electronics/displays and exterior looks of the vehicle make it feel very sophisticated, but the trim level inside did not; it felt somewhat unfinished, although they tried using recycled/alternative materials. Interesting attempt...I think for the price, even most EV buyers will want a bit more finish (the dash and door panels don't look fully completed...my LEAF has a more completed looking interior). The size is really great, comparable to the LEAF, not too big, not too small, all-around visibility is great, fits real people in the back seat. Seats can rise up or down (manually, via a seat lever) for high/low positioning.

Cons: The whole body of this car is plastic. I didn't realize that until my brother-in-law, a Lexus salesman, was poking around all over it, knocking on panels. OK, I get it (it's about carbon fiber), but I'm not sure I trust plastic/carbon fiber panels to protect me from a side impact (to be fair, I haven't read up about this yet), especially without a side pillar and "suicide doors" on both sides of the car. I have questions about whether there's even a "safety cage."

I also discovered this is a rear-wheel drive car, something I don't have plans to go back to in this snowy, hilly part of the country (KCMO). I felt some comfort dropping back to a (familiar) front-wheel drive LEAF from a 4WD-on-the-fly Suzuki Grand Vitara LTD, but wouldn't have much confidence going to RWD in 14" of snow, like we had last year.

The vehicle charges fairly rapidly compared to my 3.3 LEAF (I believe it's a 7.1 OBC), which I'll say I could certainly get used to! Unfortunately, the charge port is on the passenger side rear quarter panel. Big thumbs down on that. My 15' EVSE cord won't reach, so have to back into the garage. I noticed all the i3s at Baron BMW were backed up to the EVSEs. I find that very inconvenient and actually annoying. If I were to own this vehicle, I'd have to have my EVSE relocated near the garage door to stretch around the rear of the vehicle to reach the port, so I could just pull in nose first like normal vehicles do. Why the designers of these cars think putting the port in the rear like gas cars (to be "normal") is a good idea, I'll never know (even Tesla!).

Last note: I had barely scanned the wiki on the i3 and didn't find that it had a DCQC port. This test vehicle didn't have one, either. I mentioned it and my Baron BMW rep said it's an option. OK, the test vehicle sticker price is over 47K - shouldn't that merit both ports? Big thumbs down there, too.

The dealership would not sign me up to use the iPhone app (only owners get that), so I can't tell you how well charging is done remotely or if timers, etc., can be set. I'll have to dig around manually inside the car electronics to see what's available there. It would be nice to get SOC on the phone. :|

Overall, I'm enjoying playing with this vehicle, although I haven't put much rubber to the road. I'll be giving it back on Wednesday evening. In summary, with the cons I mentioned, I'd recommend it as a daily driver, but I personally would want a FWD or 4WD back-up vehicle for cruddy weather and hilly areas around here. Comparatively, for drivers like me - I'm a single, one-vehicle owner (yes, I'm BEV brave) - my LEAF meets all my needs, no back-up required.

More later,
Kathy

 

[GRA]

FWIW, garage parking behavior seems to vary by society. Americans usually drive in nose first; Japanese back in, and I don't know what Germans do. The type of public parking, angled vs. parallel and the location of the charging stations, plus left or right side drive also affect where the most 'convenient', safest location of the charge port is. Short of providing charge ports on all four fenders plus the center nose and/or tail of the car, there's really no way to cover all the likely permutations in a car meant to be sold world-wide.

 

[TonyWilliams]

... there's really no way to cover all the likely permutations in a car meant to be sold world-wide.

Yet, Nissan and Renault built world cars with charge ports on the nose. Not a lot of complaining about that.

 

[MobileEV]

I don't know what Germans do.

Germans head into their garage, but since center they are mostly single car garages, you can mount the EVSE where you need it.

Nice review Kathy!

Karl

 

[GRA]

... there's really no way to cover all the likely permutations in a car meant to be sold world-wide.

Yet, Nissan and Renault built world cars with charge ports on the nose. Not a lot of complaining about that.

Not in the US, anyway. I agree that center nose works quite well for the U.S., where nose-in angle parking is common and there are few charging stations for parallel parked cars. I don't know how the Japanese feel about it, or owners in countries where parallel parking with curbside charging stations is the norm. I would say rear left is the worst in right-side driving countries, unless there is left-side parallel parking with charging on one-way streets. I think wireless charging will largely solve the problem.

Edit: Oh, I forgot to mention that some cities, including a fair number in the U.S., require back-in angle parking, which is apparently safer than nose-in: http://www.pedbikeinfo.org/data/faq_details.cfm?id=3974" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[eclecticflower]

FYI, I posted another update on the i3 in the following thread:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=721&p=390556#p390556" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Kathy

 

[ericvoll]

Kathy -

Very nice review of the i3. A few Saturdays ago, my boss and I checked out and test drove the i3 at Barron BMW. They look like cool little cars. Of course, they have all of the refinements one would expect in a BMW.

When I was there, they had about 10 or so of them in their lot. They start out at about $42k and go up from there. Some of the major additions one can add are the fast DC charging, not Chademo , and an extended range feature (tiny gasoline engine).

Of course, the carbon fiber is pretty interesting. I really liked the car, but I still love my LEAF. It's also a bit outside of my budget when adding the options I would want $50k +.

As far as doing a Fall LEAFathon, I'm pretty much free most evenings and weekends.

 

[ksnogas2112]

The tiny engine is a BMW motorcycle engine (2 gallons). Which they estimate will get you about 50-75 mpg. I stopped at Baron about a month ago.

 

[cdherman]

The tiny engine is a BMW motorcycle engine (2 gallons). Which they estimate will get you about 50-75 mpg. I stopped at Baron about a month ago.

Its a cool setup -- in Europe. But its been dumbed down badly here in the USA, to make the regulators in California happy.

Here's the issue:

The little generator (based on a small motorcycle engine) actually can propel the vehicle to about 65 mph on the flat. But the vehicle needs the battery to make it up hills. The generator alone, once the bats are dead, may only make the hills at 40 mph. You would get there, but you would be a traffic hazard.

In Europe, you can manually tell the generator to start early, because you know that you are going a long ways. that means the bats are preserved for the hills and you can merrily drive for a VERY long distance.

But, to qualify as a zero emissions vehicle in California, they required BMW to allow the generator to start ONLY when the battery hits 5% capacity.

Stupid, stupid stupid.......

I would be in the market for the BMW car, but I want the European version.

 

[ksnogas2112]

Very good information CD. Thanks for the heads up.

 

[ericvoll]

So, guess what happened today.

Car showed 12 bars of charge and only 11 bars of capacity. I'm at ~24,400 miles, and I've lost my first capacity bar. 90% of my charging has been only to 80% capacity, and I've received two battery reports with 5 stars throughout.

Say it ain't so!! :shock: