Jumping another vehicle

[rfelty]

My wife's ICE car had a dead battery for reasons we could clearly identify (operator error) so I grabbed the manual. I was able to read all about how to jump a dead Leaf battery but saw nothing about going the other way. So I left the Leaf off and ran the cables as I would with any other car. And when she cranked it, her car started right up. So it works and I had no difficulties. But it did cause me to think a bit before giving it a try.

 

[planet4ever]

Used my 2011 LEAF to jump start 94 Taurus SHO the other day for the first time. I had a fully charged 12V portable battery that I tried first, but it was inadequate for the task.

My wife's ICE car had a dead battery for reasons we could clearly identify (operator error) so I grabbed the manual. I was able to read all about how to jump a dead Leaf battery but saw nothing about going the other way. So I left the Leaf off and ran the cables as I would with any other car.

What? These reports are hard to fathom. I've been driving ICE cars for more than 50 years, and so far as I know the rule has always been that the donor vehicle's engine should be running during the jump charge.

Ray

 

[TimLee]

Used my 2011 LEAF to jump start 94 Taurus SHO the other day for the first time. I had a fully charged 12V portable battery that I tried first, but it was inadequate for the task.

My wife's ICE car had a dead battery for reasons we could clearly identify (operator error) so I grabbed the manual. I was able to read all about how to jump a dead Leaf battery but saw nothing about going the other way. So I left the Leaf off and ran the cables as I would with any other car.

What? These reports are hard to fathom. I've been driving ICE cars for more than 50 years, and so far as I know the rule has always been that the donor vehicle's engine should be running during the jump charge.

Ray

Yes, in my case I had the LEAF in Ready mode for a couple minutes and while cranking the ICE, as Phil had advised earlier in this thread.
Although you might occasionally be able to crank the ICE with the LEAF off as rfelty stated he did, that is not advisable because the LEAF 12V battery is of modest Ahr capacity and fairly low CCA. But with the LEAF in Ready mode the DC to DC converter is very stout, much better current capability than what you get from the alternator in an ICE even when the donor vehicle engine is running. That is why sometimes when an ICE is jumping another ICE, it works better if someone raises the engine RPM on the donor vehicle to around 3000 rpm before attempting to crank the other ICE.

 

[dgpcolorado]

My wife's ICE car had a dead battery for reasons we could clearly identify (operator error) so I grabbed the manual. I was able to read all about how to jump a dead Leaf battery but saw nothing about going the other way. So I left the Leaf off and ran the cables as I would with any other car. And when she cranked it, her car started right up. So it works and I had no difficulties. But it did cause me to think a bit before giving it a try.

Although it worked for you, when jumping other cars it is best to have the LEAF in "Ready" mode (green car icon on dash) when doing so. Otherwise you risk depleting the LEAF 12 V battery and damaging it or reducing its life.

Phil described the procedure upthread:

Here's the procedure: (LEAF is in Ready mode)

Disclaimer: There's always a possibility something could go badly wrong. Wear protection for eyes and skin. You could die, you could destroy one or all nearby vehicles! You have been warned!

1. Be sure all unattached jumper cable clamps are not touching each other or anything else conductive.
2. Connect the positive (red) jumper cable clamp to the positive terminal of the dead car's battery.
3. Connect the other positive jumper cable clamp to the LEAF's 12v battery positive terminal.
4. Connect the negative jumper cable clamp to the dead car's negative battery terminal.
5. This is the final connection, connect the negative jumper cable clamp to the LEAF's DC-DC converter negative terminal. You can locate this by following the heavy wire from the negative battery terminal.

It is not necessary to connect the negative clamp on the dead car to it's engine block. The reason for doing this is to keep sparks well away from the battery. You always make the final connection to negative and always away from the battery, and always on the "good" car, as it's battery is already charged and in little danger of exploding should something go wrong.

Allow at a minimum of 2 full minutes before attempting to start the dead car. If it doesn't crank fast, immediately stop and wait some more. If after 10 minutes it won't crank, you should throw in the towel; Something is wrong.

Always disconnect in reverse order, so once the dead car is running, disconnect the negative clamp from the LEAF's DC-DC.

-Phil

 

[LeftieBiker]

I haven't read all the posts her so this may have been covered. There is a device that lets you plug a cable into the accessory/cigarette lighter sockets of both vehicles, turn both ignitions on, wait ten minutes for the charge to transfer slowly, then start the dead ICE. We have them but haven't had to use them. I doubt the device would start a vehicle with a truly dead battery, but one that was just weakened by a parasitic drain (like lights left on) is another story...

 

[gboudreau]

I've seen someone else ask, but didn't see any answer: can someone visually point out where the DC-DC converter connection should be made?

Maybe just an arrow (using Preview on Mac, or Paint on Windows, or something) on any Google-Image-obtained photo of the LEAF's engine compartment:
http://images.thecarconnection.com/lrg/2011-nissan-leaf_100372391_l.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/english/NEWS_EN/20121121/252171/?SS=imgview_e&FD=46728356&ad_q" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://cdn.caradvice.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/2013-Nissan-Leaf-9-625x416.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks.

 

[dgpcolorado]

I've seen someone else ask, but didn't see any answer: can someone visually point out where the DC-DC converter connection should be made?

Maybe just an arrow (using Preview on Mac, or Paint on Windows, or something) on any Google-Image-obtained photo of the LEAF's engine compartment:
http://images.thecarconnection.com/lrg/2011-nissan-leaf_100372391_l.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/english/NEWS_EN/20121121/252171/?SS=imgview_e&FD=46728356&ad_q" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://cdn.caradvice.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/2013-Nissan-Leaf-9-625x416.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks.

For the negative connection, I clamp to the metal fitting at this site:


If you trace this cable you will see that it is bolted to the car frame to the lower right of the battery (on my car, at least).

 

[TimLee]

^^^Correct, for the 2011 & 2012.
Note that the first link the questioner posted is of a 2011 / 2012.
The other two links are for the 2013 redesign with integrated inverter / Power Distribution Module & charger / motor.

 

[dgpcolorado]

^^^Correct, for the 2011 & 2012.
Note that the first link the questioner posted is of a 2011 / 2012.
The other two links are for the 2013 redesign with integrated inverter / Power Distribution Module & charger / motor.

Yes. I haven't the faintest idea of what to use under the hood of a 2013, having never seen one. But it was clear, from the delivery date, that gboudreau has an older LEAF like mine.

 

[gboudreau]

Yes. I haven't the faintest idea of what to use under the hood of a 2013, having never seen one. But it was clear, from the delivery date, that gboudreau has an older LEAF like mine.

I indeed do. Thank you very much for the pointer.

 

[foolios]

I've seen someone else ask, but didn't see any answer: can someone visually point out where the DC-DC converter connection should be made?

Maybe just an arrow (using Preview on Mac, or Paint on Windows, or something) on any Google-Image-obtained photo of the LEAF's engine compartment:
http://images.thecarconnection.com/lrg/2011-nissan-leaf_100372391_l.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/english/NEWS_EN/20121121/252171/?SS=imgview_e&FD=46728356&ad_q" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://cdn.caradvice.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/2013-Nissan-Leaf-9-625x416.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks.

For the negative connection, I clamp to the metal fitting at this site:


If you trace this cable you will see that it is bolted to the car frame to the lower right of the battery (on my car, at least).

The image isn't showing for me. Can someone repost the image?

 

[gboudreau]

 

[foolios]

Thank you so much!

 

[Ingineer]

On 2013 models it's different, but basically anywhere shiny on any of the large aluminum boxes under the hood. If you follow the thick negative wire from the battery, it will lead to the ideal location.

-Phil

 

[foolios]

Ok, I was confused about the negative connection to the chassis and the engine block. That is the engine block on top right? I believe the top box is the engine and the one beneath it is the DC-DC converter.
I have a pic here of where the negative ends up. It starts from the battery to a bonding point on the chassis and then comes back around to the engine via a bracket.
I was wondering if it'd be ok to use that same bracket, even the same bolt to put the negative of the battery or an inverter onto.

What I don't understand is why this is ok. From all over the planet and I think even Aliens from outer space have been whispering that we are to never ever connect to the negative of the battery. But this connection point will connect pretty close to what I'd consider directly to the negative of the battery, no?

Thanks a mill for the education. Still learning before making any attempts. Still don't feel confident enough to try the AC/DC inverter thingy, well, not sure if I want to spend money to buy the kit, anyhows...

There's one more thing I wanted to know. This thing about GID level. I read somewhere that you don't want to let the energy level to drop below a certain GID level. What level is it in bars and why?

 

[QueenBee]

What I don't understand is why this is ok. From all over the planet and I think even Aliens from outer space have been whispering that we are to never ever connect to the negative of the battery. But this connection point will connect pretty close to what I'd consider directly to the negative of the battery, no?

Thanks a mill for the education. Still learning before making any attempts. Still don't feel confident enough to try the AC/DC inverter thingy, well, not sure if I want to spend money to buy the kit, anyhows...

There's one more thing I wanted to know. This thing about GID level. I read somewhere that you don't want to let the energy level to drop below a certain GID level. What level is it in bars and why?

Between that point and the negative battery terminal is a current sensor. It's not entirely clear to me what happens if you connect to the negative battery terminal but some possibilities are that the LEAF overcharges the battery, the LEAF throws an error code/shuts down, etc.

I believe the rule of thumb I've heard is it is not good to let the battery sit below 20% SOC which would be around 56 GIDs or about two bars. It's bad to let the batteries sit empty, as to why you'd have to get into the chemistry of the battery to explain it. As far as usage I would not worry about going below that point if you have to go get to where you need to get just start charging as soon as you can.

 

[Ingineer]

QueenBee is right, there is a current sensor on the negative battery post. And conventionally you NEVER want to make sparks near the top of a battery, so the last connection is recommended to be negative, and made away from the battery. The sparks can cause any venting hydrogen to blow the top of the battery case off, while spraying concentrated sulphuric acid in your face. Apparently about 10,000 people a year lose their vision due to this kind of accident, so it's not to be taken lightly.

-Phil

 

[Jim]

When jumping another car, do you have the Leaf in ready mode then connect the jumper cables, or connect the cables first then start the Leaf?

 

[Ingineer]

Have the LEAF in Ready before you connect. This way the DC-DC can source the load of charging the dead car rather then your tiny little battery.

-Phil

 

[foolios]

QueenBee is right, there is a current sensor on the negative battery post. And conventionally you NEVER want to make sparks near the top of a battery, so the last connection is recommended to be negative, and made away from the battery. The sparks can cause any venting hydrogen to blow the top of the battery case off, while spraying concentrated sulphuric acid in your face. Apparently about 10,000 people a year lose their vision due to this kind of accident, so it's not to be taken lightly.

-Phil

I took a look at the battery after it was mentioned to be a flooded battery. Wow, I am really surprised there isn't a maintenance free AGM battery in there.
So now what really blows my mind is that the DC-AC inverter kits I'm looking at have quick connects pretty darned near the battery. The termination for the negative is elsewhere but the actual connection that is going to make a spark is right at the quick connection point, right? This seems to me to be a bad idea. Am I wrong? I didn't see any warnings around the quick connect so I guess I am. But why is this any different?

And how are they maintaining the flooded battery? Is the access to the covers clear?

So I am thinking the best option is to replace the battery straight away with a nice deep cycle AGM.

Alright, so you're both saying that I can connect the negative to that bracket that the negative wire from the battery via chassis is connected to? I can unscrew it and put an eyelet in there with that same screw on the bracket?