July Plugin Sales : Leaf 395, Volt 1849, PIP 688, FFE 38

[redLEAF]

Can't say that ALL Nissan dealers won't discount a LEAF; here in Chicago at least one is offering a decent discount on an '11 demo with CWP and only 300 miles as well as they want to sell their '12 demo at a discount as well. These aren't 'brand new' but they aren't considered used yet either (haven't ever been titled yet). I'd say though that the majority are going for MSRP ... a LEAF around here is still quite a rare sight (still have only seen one in the wild after 4 1/2 months of ownership) and would agree that discounts are rare on the newly ordered cars.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Fact; people who come to a car lot, buy a car and decide to return it later (most states allow a few days) about 2% .new and used combined. primarily used cars most of which are sold as is with normally no return policy but many dealers will take them back if returned within a day. in some cases cars must be returned due to failed or changed finance deals.

# of people who order a car and wait for it (each customer is assumed to have equal motivation to buy) and do not end up buying the car. 18%.

so a customer is 9 times less likely to pull the buy trigger if they have to wait until the car comes in. and this is not just Leaf buyers although i suspect the initial order process probably did not count in stats above. (i tried but cannot find out any real details on how the numbers were collected)

We also see similar #'s across high end specialty cars like Mustang Cobras, etc.

so, there is really little doubt that if Nissan had more supply of Leafs on the lot, they would sell better.

 

[SanDust]

Irregardless, with Sunderland now (slowly) producing packs, and a model year changeover in 2 months, the demand level will get tested by summer's end, and we get a better picture just what that is. (imo)

The situation you're outlining here isn't what you outlined in your article. Your article suggested that there was a wave of demand which couldn't be fulfilled because of limited battery production. What you're saying here is that limited battery production has precluded Nissan from getting Leafs on dealer lots, and this lack of inventory has constrained demand. These are different situations which pose different problems. The most obvious conclusion would be that while simply producing more cars in one scenario would automatically lead to higher sales this wouldn't automatically happen in the other.

As I've said, no quarrel with the idea that in the US you sell more if you have more inventory. But I don't think just having Leafs on the lot is going to move units. I can't see someone coming in to look at a Versa or an Altima and walking out with a Leaf. It's just too different and range limited for the vast majority of consumers. Dealers are going to have to learn how to market the car as well.

 

[Jay]

Irregardless, with Sunderland now (slowly) producing packs, and a model year changeover in 2 months, the demand level will get tested by summer's end, and we get a better picture just what that is. (imo)

The situation you're outlining here isn't what you outlined in your article. Your article suggested that there was a wave of demand which couldn't be fulfilled because of limited battery production. What you're saying here is that limited battery production has precluded Nissan from getting Leafs on dealer lots, and this lack of inventory has constrained demand. These are different situations which pose different problems. The most obvious conclusion would be that while simply producing more cars in one scenario would automatically lead to higher sales this wouldn't automatically happen in the other.

As I've said, no quarrel with the idea that in the US you sell more if you have more inventory. But I don't think just having Leafs on the lot is going to move units. I can't see someone coming in to look at a Versa or an Altima and walking out with a Leaf. It's just too different and range limited for the vast majority of consumers. Dealers are going to have to learn how to market the car as well.

I meant the same thing, perhaps I worded it badly.

However, I regard the general population's desire to buy the car off a dealer and the frenzied internet-buyer demand to be one in the same. Demand is demand. My father-in-law loves my electric cars, he says he wants one...but he is NOT going to do anything online, he wants to see them on the lot and buy it there. Thats what he always has done.

He is not alone in this sentiment, I would say 95% of the new car buying public won't buy a car, sight unseen, on the internet, at full MSRP, with things like "the dealer will get back to you on financing when the car comes in." They just won't.

Most people aren't going to jump through hoops like that and bend over for Nissan (or any OEM), however that doesn't mean they don't want the car, and as you say 'they aren't going to go out and buy an Altima instead' they want to plug something in.

But, I do guarantee you that producing and shipping more LEAFs to the US and stocking dealerships nationwide would have a huge effect on sales, much more than 300-500 units sold a month. It just makes sense in this scenario.

As I mentioned, a huge portion of the population still want the car, but they want to stroll down to their dealership, kick the tires, take it for a spin, see it in 5 colors and in both trim levels, then go into the manger's office and feel like if they beat down the MSRP for $500, $1,000, floormats, w/e, they are a winner. They just can't do that now, but that is how 99% of all cars are sold.

Again, I have no clue what the ongoing demand is for the car over time. But I would wager if a dozen 2013 LEAFs showed up at every dealership in late August, Nissan would sell 2,500+ of them a month for at least a couple months to end out the year

Then again, I could be completely wrong, just my opinion...time will tell.

 

[kmp647]

It would seem to me the pattern might be the same as when some other much desired car comes out, like say when the Miata, new beetle, or wahtever hard to get car of the moment. You hear about it and the have to have its order the car or get in line, then the orders come in and are filled, what happens next is strange, the cars hit the lot with no buyers and the saleforce thinks they have a homerun here, wack someone for msrp plus$

sometimes those hot have to have cars sit, til the salesforce comes to grips
then in a couple months you see em stacked up and discounted
anyway thats one view

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

just saw a conference with Andy Palmer and others at EVS26 and he states the Leaf ranks in top 25% of all cars in worldwide sales. not bad, not top 10, but its still early.

 

[cwerdna]

just saw a conference with Andy Palmer and others at EVS26 and he states the Leaf ranks in top 25% of all cars in worldwide sales. not bad, not top 10, but its still early.

That sounds doubtful. I'd be curious to hear what the cutoff was in worldwide sales for whatever the given time period was in order to make the top 25%.

 

[GRA]

just saw a conference with Andy Palmer and others at EVS26 and he states the Leaf ranks in top 25% of all cars in worldwide sales. not bad, not top 10, but its still early.

That sounds doubtful. I'd be curious to hear what the cutoff was in worldwide sales for whatever the given time period was in order to make the top 25%.

Yeah, I find that number very hard to believe, although maybe if you include every startup that's hammered together some pieces of scrap in their garage in every country it might be accurate. But I can be convinced otherwise, if shown the data.

 

[jim3cantos]

I think this is from the same conference with Andy Palmer:

ElectricDrive : Nissan EVP Palmer: "projecting sales of about 40,000 [LEAF] this year" and "selling all the cars we can produce" 13 hours ago

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

I think this is from the same conference with Andy Palmer:

ElectricDrive : Nissan EVP Palmer: "projecting sales of about 40,000 [LEAF] this year" and "selling all the cars we can produce" 13 hours ago

that figure is probably world wide which probably means no more than 10-15,000 domestically

 

[EdmondLeaf]

Nissan targets 'pragmatists' to buy its electric Leaf
http://content.usatoday.com/communi...san-leaf-electrics-pragmatists/1#.T6vh7etQ534

Pragmatists, a group that includes a lot of engineers, tend to travel a lot, Palmer says. As such, Nissan is putting ads up in airports around the world for Leaf to reach them.

 

[SanDust]

As I mentioned, a huge portion of the population still want the car, but they want to stroll down to their dealership, kick the tires, take it for a spin, see it in 5 colors and in both trim levels, then go into the manger's office and feel like if they beat down the MSRP for $500, $1,000, floormats, w/e, they are a winner. They just can't do that now, but that is how 99% of all cars are sold.

Again, I have no clue what the ongoing demand is for the car over time. But I would wager if a dozen 2013 LEAFs showed up at every dealership in late August, Nissan would sell 2,500+ of them a month for at least a couple months to end out the year

Then again, I could be completely wrong, just my opinion...time will tell.

I don't see a "huge portion" of new car buyers being interested in the Leaf. I do see a "very small portion" of the population being interested. I also see that small portion heading down to their local Nissan dealer where they'll meet a clueless salesperson who will try to sell them a close out Altima. Maybe that's too negative but the Leaf is a different and more complicated sale than what Nissan dealers are used to selling and I don't have a sense that the dealers are very excited about selling it.

As you say time will tell.

 

[jkirkebo]

I also see that small portion heading down to their local Nissan dealer where they'll meet a clueless salesperson who will try to sell them a close out Altima. Maybe that's too negative but the Leaf is a different and more complicated sale than what Nissan dealers are used to selling and I don't have a sense that the dealers are very excited about selling it.

Funny, the opposite seems to be happening over here. Several people have been heard from that went into a Nissan dealer to look at a Quashqai or some other Nissan and came out with a Leaf order

 

[adric22]

. I also see that small portion heading down to their local Nissan dealer where they'll meet a clueless salesperson who will try to sell them a close out Altima. Maybe that's too negative but the Leaf is a different and more complicated sale than what Nissan dealers are used to selling and I don't have a sense that the dealers are very excited about selling it.

Actually, around here most dealerships only have 1 "leaf specialist." Well, if a person walks up to the dealership and says they are interested in a Leaf, then they'll send you to talk to the specialist, assuming he's even in that day.

Since most car salesman need to make money so they have a paycheck, they would much rather sell a car that they can get credit for, rather than handing the customer off to somebody else.

 

[GRA]

. I also see that small portion heading down to their local Nissan dealer where they'll meet a clueless salesperson who will try to sell them a close out Altima. Maybe that's too negative but the Leaf is a different and more complicated sale than what Nissan dealers are used to selling and I don't have a sense that the dealers are very excited about selling it.

Actually, around here most dealerships only have 1 "leaf specialist." Well, if a person walks up to the dealership and says they are interested in a Leaf, then they'll send you to talk to the specialist, assuming he's even in that day.

Since most car salesman need to make money so they have a paycheck, they would much rather sell a car that they can get credit for, rather than handing the customer off to somebody else.

When I test drove a Leaf last year, I was handed off to the Leaf 'specialist'. The problem was that I knew far more about the car than he did.

 

[Navin]

One of the Ford dealerships here also owns the Nissan dealership where I got my Leaf. They are the "certified" Leaf dealer in town (or whatever you call it) and I had no choice but to order my Leaf through them if I wanted to buy from a local dealer. In one of their commercials for a Ford Fusion hybrid the owner's sons who are in their 30's and in all of the commercials say "and you don't have to plug it in!" As if plugging in is something negative! And they're the main dealer for Leafs here in El Paso!

These guys make a ton of money selling big V8 trucks and SUVs. Every month here is "truck month" on the ads. I don't see any enthusiam for the Leaf from the three local Nissan dealers at all.

 

[evnow]

He is not alone in this sentiment, I would say 95% of the new car buying public won't buy a car, sight unseen, on the internet, at full MSRP, with things like "the dealer will get back to you on financing when the car comes in." They just won't.

Interestingly in Europe, special ordering the car is apparently the norm. One more thing that is different on that side of the pond ...

 

[jkirkebo]

He is not alone in this sentiment, I would say 95% of the new car buying public won't buy a car, sight unseen, on the internet, at full MSRP, with things like "the dealer will get back to you on financing when the car comes in." They just won't.

Interestingly in Europe, special ordering the car is apparently the norm. One more thing that is different on that side of the pond ...

Yup, the only cars on lots are usually demos and used ones. I got the Leaf in 4 months which is faster that I'm used to. Delivery time for VWs usually ran about 6 months.

 

[TRONZ]

Nissan targets 'pragmatists' to buy its electric Leaf
http://content.usatoday.com/communi...san-leaf-electrics-pragmatists/1#.T6vh7etQ534

Pragmatists, a group that includes a lot of engineers, tend to travel a lot, Palmer says. As such, Nissan is putting ads up in airports around the world for Leaf to reach them.

It's interesting that Nissan is refining their marketing from the "idealist" (green) crowd to the "pragmatic" (bean counting) crowd. Practical economy is good marketing bedrock when available. Sound move. This does raise the "4th EV" question for Nissan. If the LEAF is being moved more towards the "practical" car segment, is Nissan foreshadowing an overall move towards a more practical City EV to come... or is the LEAF now being established to cover this market segment in the USA???

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

doing a search of cars.com and first thing i realized is you really must take the information with a grain of salt. i did a search of W. WA and came up with 42 vehicles

13 new 2012s
8 new 2011s (or slightly used but with HUGE markup)
8 used 2012s
13 used 2011s

of the new vehicles, 13 of the 21 are at two different dealerships (stadium Nissan and Vancouver Nissan..so opposite ends of the region almost)

so, i called to inquire about one of the available cars to be told it had been sold. i asked why it was still on the internet as available but was told that the "updates from last night probably have not been put in"

what i suspect is the car was never available at all having been ordered.

now this survey of Leafs covers about 5.2 million people so assuming the 42 cars were available at one time, we have a density of one car for every 123,000 more or less or 1 in 250,000 if only new cars were considered.

that would equate to about...1200 nationwide if the ratio was kept the same and the population was set at 300 million.

so, i guess i have to say that having this little stock available (especially when all of it is not available...it actually took 3 days to get a response about the car i inquired about. as of this morning, it is still listed for sale online) plays no part in the dismal sales figures for the Leaf has got to be more than a little bit misleading