July Plugin Sales : Leaf 395, Volt 1849, PIP 688, FFE 38

[kmp647]

doesnt seem to be a supply problem at local Virginia dealers

http://www.brownsdullesnissan.com/new-inventory/index.htm?invtype=new&reset=InventoryListing&SByear=clear&SBmake=Nissan&SBmodel=LEAF&SBbodystyle=clear&SBprice=clear" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

9 2012's in stock all with unique vins

$1,600 discounts

10 2012 in stock here

http://www.nissanchantilly.com/ou/chantilly-nissan/console.do?page=n_specials&year=2012&make=Nissan&model=Leaf&bodyStyle=Hatchback&lockNewUsed=New&stockType=New&view=expanded&pageSize=20&dealerId=" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;[3216_2144]

discounted

4 or so here nice discount too
http://www.koonsfallschurchnissan.com/new-inventory/index.htm?invtype=new&reset=InventoryListing&SByear=clear&SBmodel=LEAF&SBbodystyle=clear&SBprice=clear" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

these stores are close to me , I may stop over and see if the cars are really there on the ground for sale

just to be sure

 

[hill]

.
Temba -- his arms open.
Picard and Dathon at El-Adrel.

Time to go wipe my watery eyes!

Holy molie . . . and I thought a I watched way too much, 'next generation' star trek episodes. guess I was WAY wrong.

I suppose it wouldn't be news to tell you that the actor who played the captain of the Tamarian ship, was the same actor, playing the roll of Captain Terrell, who (along with Checkoff) got captured by Khan Noonien Singh - in the movie, 'The wrath of Khan'.


.

 

[adric22]

I suppose it wouldn't be news to tell you that the actor who played the captain of the Tamarian ship, was the same actor, playing the roll of Captain Terrell, who (along with Checkoff) got captured by Khan Noonien Singh - in the movie, 'The wrath of Khan'.

I always hated that episode. As somebody who has studied language, I find it to be impossible that such a form of language could exist. In order to speak in metaphor you still have to have an underlying concept of language. To be able to say "when the walls fell" is s structured bit of language that means something, yet these people could not comprehend the foundation of that language? It is sort of like saying you can do algebra or trig even though you have no understanding of numbers. It is impossible.

 

[kmp647]

OK i drove by the dealer in chantilly 10 or so Leaf cars lined up for sale waiting for buyers......


all 2012's most SL some SV , white , silvr,blue, red

no supply prob here in Northern VA

 

[EdmondLeaf]

OK i drove by the dealer in chantilly 10 or so Leaf cars lined up for sale waiting for buyers......


all 2012's most SL some SV , white , silvr,blue, red

no supply prob here in Northern VA

any idea dealer stock or orphans? looks like we still have to wait a while for first OK official delivery, scheduled to be first may get Volt instead

 

[smkettner]

OK i drove by the dealer in chantilly 10 or so Leaf cars lined up for sale waiting for buyers......


all 2012's most SL some SV , white , silvr,blue, red

no supply prob here in Northern VA

The demand side may seem weak because few people know what the car is or that it is available.
No reason to start a big marketing push until the line is running in TN.
Even as everything ramps up in a year, the growth will still take some time.
Otherwise tell a friend to go down and pick one up
JMHO.

 

[DrInnovation]

Interesting article on "supply" side issue with batteries

http://insideevs.com/nissan-leaf-sales-dip-to-2012-lows-with-370-units-sold-ghosn-urges-patience/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

SNIP...
Enter Renault, the ‘other half’ of the Nissan equation. Renault started production of the Kangoo ZE (all electric utility van) late last year, then added the Fluence ZE earlier this year, and then the Twizy just this month. And where are all these battery packs coming from to supply these new offerings? The same AESC factory out of Zama. Demand for packs has become so great for Nissan-Renault have actually subcontracted LG Chem to produce some of the battery packs for the Fluence ZE in Europe.

The takeaway is that currently Nissan-Renault can only produce about 5,000 (LEAF sized) packs per month out of Zama, and that the partnership’s production is divided amongst 4 cars (with a 5th, the Zoe, coming online soon), in over separate markets. Basically, they are supplying everyone and satisfying no one.

SNIP

Maybe Goshen doesn't want to put that forward as a reason because it makes it look like poor planning on their part...

 

[SanDust]

The takeaway is that currently Nissan-Renault can only produce about 5,000 (LEAF sized) packs per month out of Zama, and that the partnership’s production is divided amongst 4 cars (with a 5th, the Zoe, coming online soon), in over separate markets. Basically, they are supplying everyone and satisfying no one.

Last year at this time there were many posts -- the forum was deluged -- complaining that Nissan wasn't delivering cars. This year ... crickets. The lack of posts from people waiting for their cars doesn't square with the claim that there are a huge numbers of buyers itching to get their hands on a Leaf if only Nissan could deliver them. It also doesn't fit with the anecdotal evidence that some Nissan dealers have multiple Leafs on their lots. And it certainly doesn't fit with the advertised lease of $270/month (why have a low price lease for a hot car where you can't keep up with demand?).

It could be that Nissan has taken orders for 5000 Leaf and could only ship 370. It's also possible that Nissan shipped 370 Leafs because that's more or less the number of orders it had.

 

[kmp647]

370 sales in one month 1100 nissan dealers in the USA

that means 75% of dealers sold 0 Leaf cars during april ?

I should have checked the imnspection stickers on those 10 cars and seen how long they have been on lot.

 

[GRA]

The takeaway is that currently Nissan-Renault can only produce about 5,000 (LEAF sized) packs per month out of Zama, and that the partnership’s production is divided amongst 4 cars (with a 5th, the Zoe, coming online soon), in over separate markets. Basically, they are supplying everyone and satisfying no one.

Last year at this time there were many posts -- the forum was deluged -- complaining that Nissan wasn't delivering cars. This year ... crickets. The lack of posts from people waiting for their cars doesn't square with the claim that there are a huge numbers of buyers itching to get their hands on a Leaf if only Nissan could deliver them. It also doesn't fit with the anecdotal evidence that some Nissan dealers have multiple Leafs on their lots. And it certainly doesn't fit with the advertised lease of $270/month (why have a low price lease for a hot car where you can't keep up with demand?).

It could be that Nissan has taken orders for 5000 Leaf and could only ship 370. It's also possible that Nissan shipped 370 Leafs because that's more or less the number of orders it had.

Yeah, that article reads like the same sort of spin GM was doing last year, when they were saying there was no problem with Volt sales (right before shutting the plant down to reduce inventory).
Or maybe it's as DrInnovation says, and they're just too embarrassed to admit that they screwed up the planning. After all, why would you introduce multiple cars (with another to come) in multiple countries when you can't adequately supply them with a critical component, thus crippling launch sales? My money's on spin, although I hope I'm wrong. I attribute the sales falloff to a variety of factors, chief among which is the satiation of the early adopter demand, with the large boost in price (~$5,000 in California, one of the major markets) in one year being another large factor.

 

[EdmondLeaf]

OK i drove by the dealer in chantilly 10 or so Leaf cars lined up for sale waiting for buyers......


all 2012's most SL some SV , white , silvr,blue, red

no supply prob here in Northern VA

We are looking for a deal and they quoted me 39,700 on red SL they have 8 in stock

 

[kmp647]

That is more than the advertised price on their website?

So you called chantilly Nissan

Who help you?

 

[EdmondLeaf]

not sure I guess they Leaf specialist, many want over MSRP

 

[Jay]

The takeaway is that currently Nissan-Renault can only produce about 5,000 (LEAF sized) packs per month out of Zama, and that the partnership’s production is divided amongst 4 cars (with a 5th, the Zoe, coming online soon), in over separate markets. Basically, they are supplying everyone and satisfying no one.

Last year at this time there were many posts -- the forum was deluged -- complaining that Nissan wasn't delivering cars. This year ... crickets. The lack of posts from people waiting for their cars doesn't square with the claim that there are a huge numbers of buyers itching to get their hands on a Leaf if only Nissan could deliver them. It also doesn't fit with the anecdotal evidence that some Nissan dealers have multiple Leafs on their lots. And it certainly doesn't fit with the advertised lease of $270/month (why have a low price lease for a hot car where you can't keep up with demand?).

It could be that Nissan has taken orders for 5000 Leaf and could only ship 370. It's also possible that Nissan shipped 370 Leafs because that's more or less the number of orders it had.

No one is saying that Nissan can sell 5,000, 3k, or even 1,500 LEAFs a month on a continuing basis, but they can sell more than 370 in a month, no question at all.

The fact that a few dealers are working the system and have managed to build some inventory is also not an indication that people don't want the car. According to Nissan they have about 900 MY 2012 saleable LEAFs in the US. That number is very low, and even still you don't know the specifics of what those dealers are offering because there is no national 'stock program. Whearas, thos who do have cars, some are offering discounts, some are at MSRP, some are at a premium.

To put some perspective on inventory, Toyota has 31,500 Camrys in stock on there lots. Camaro at GM? 18,500

 

[kmp647]

All very good points!

The dealer in question has an active Leaf salesperson and has made several sales and built some stock somehow

Maybe an exception

And certainly having 30000 leaf cars in stock nationally would be excessive

Having 8-10 cars per dealer 7-8k nationally would def get them moving off the lots and into driveways

 

[SanDust]

To put some perspective on inventory, Toyota has 31,500 Camrys in stock on there lots. Camaro at GM? 18,500

No question that more inventory would help sales. However, there weren't ANY Leafs in inventory last year, and orphans were selling well over MSRP, so this doesn't explain the lack of people complaining they can't get one to buy or lease, which is what we experienced when sales were supply constrained last year.

 

[Jay]

To put some perspective on inventory, Toyota has 31,500 Camrys in stock on there lots. Camaro at GM? 18,500

No question that more inventory would help sales. However, there weren't ANY Leafs in inventory last year, and orphans were selling well over MSRP, so this doesn't explain the lack of people complaining they can't get one to buy or lease, which is what we experienced when sales were supply constrained last year.

The lack of extreme enthusiasts in the queue, (and thats what I would call them), that are willing to go online, fill out a form (and do the dance) while plunking down money (sometimes sight unseen) is nothing like actual customers. The fact that aggressive car buyers are no longer backed up and complaining on the board (and paying over MSRP) is not an indication that no one wants the car....this is a very, very slim group. I would suggest most of the early adopter/must-have types (like most of us here), have managed to procure a car by this point

How many other cars on the market that could rack up 10,000 sales with this format, and 35,000 around the world? Not many if there is. (I'd wager anything new that has the word 'Prius' in it, lol)

Putting it another way, if GM only offered the new Buick Verano this way, would there be 30,000 reservations, that turned into 11,000 sales for a rebadged $25,000 Cruze? I doubt it, maybe 400-500. By quickly stuffing 8,000 of these into stock on their lesser sized Buick dealerships, they somehow managed to sell 2,900 of these last month.

I used to believe Nissan used this order system, in order to control things, to control MSRP/dealers, but now looking at it in hindsight, it seems pretty obvious it was much more to control demand, and satsify squeeky wheels...the simple fact that 18 months after the launch Nissan still can't produce any kind of reasonable stock for their dealerships I think backs that up.

Irregardless, with Sunderland now (slowly) producing packs, and a model year changeover in 2 months, the demand level will get tested by summer's end, and we get a better picture just what that is. (imo)

 

[adric22]

None of the Nissan dealers I've passed by lately have any Leafs in stock. I didn't even see a demo car.

Keep in mind how the general public buys cars. For example, a female co-worker of mine was fed up with her old Ford Taurus because it kept breaking down. Last week she said she was going to go out and find a car over the weekend. Since she had never bought a car from a dealership before, I gave her a 20 minute lesson in buying a car. Most of the major points were:

• Know what you want before you get to the dealership
• how to inspect a used car for problems
• avoid extended warranties, maintenance deals, dealer add-ons, and anything else they try to tack onto the bill.

Well, on Monday she came in and had pretty much ignored most of everything I told her. She ended up with a 2002 PT Cruiser, because she said it got "great gas mileage" (hahah.. pretty funny, 19 city / 27 hwy) and she "only" paid $10,000 and bought the extended warranty because something might break. (even though I gave her a lesson on how useless those warranties were and how she'll never get any use from it)

She was a car salesman's dream-come-true. But sadly, she really is pretty typical of the average car buyer. They just walk into a dealership with no idea what they want.

So.. If each dealer had a few Leafs in stock and a customer came in complaining about gas prices, the salesman could show them a Leaf and take them for a test drive. While true, it won't be "compatible" with every customer's lifestyle, I imagine it would fit quite a few people who didn't even realize the car existed. But as it is right now, the only people buying Leafs are those who know up-front that we want one, are willing to buy without a test-drive, and willing to wait months for delivery.

 

[EdmondLeaf]

None of the Nissan dealers I've passed by lately have any Leafs in stock. I didn't even see a demo car.

I am helping people to get one, therefore we may have a bit different opinion on the subject.

Yesterday I was looking for a deal on 12 SL and IMO dealers not helping regular customers, I guess if you are calling then you expect something of MSRP. All in CA and VA want more then MSRP even price advertised on their website was less. Many dealers still believe there so many anxious buyers in the states that are not open for sale yet, so they will buy with premium or crazy option like nitrogen in tires or whatever. Only dealers in TN and TX wants to sell with discount and deal that was offered to me by Bankston Nissan Lewisville, TX was just too good to pass. Many dealers not helping, even I clearly stated that I am calling many, some simply want to charge way over MSRP having 8 in stock

 

[edatoakrun]

Dealers are asking near MSRP for LEAFs because they can.

In retrospect, the larger discounts available on orders over the last two years, was due to the "orphan effect", the dealer's incentive to pick up potential profit on cancelled orders, encouraging larger discounts on all orders.

So the days when (at least in CA) 5% off list was easy to find, may not be the future, nationwide.

At some point, demand may not support these higher retail prices, offered by dealers in other regions.

But it doesn't look like that has happened yet.

Given the current very low factory output, and worldwide demand, it will take many months of low retail sales, for US dealers to bring their LEAF inventory up to their desired levels.

No cause for hysteria, when Nissan reports lower US monthly retail sales, during this period of inventory expansion by Nissan dealers.