Jamb this in your LEAF

[adric22]

Has anyone seen any official comment from Nissan on this whole issue? Are they planning to start equipping Leafs destined for North America with this new charge port, or will they continue to use the Chademo?

 

[mitch672]

Has anyone seen any official comment from Nissan on this whole issue? Are they planning to start equipping Leafs destined for North America with this new charge port, or will they continue to use the Chademo?

Its not even a ratified "standard" yet. Nissan is going to ignore it, probably even if it does get ratified/adopted. You are probably looking at 2015 at the earliest for this to be deployed, and none of the North American mfrs are even talking about DC fast charging, so they are likely to ignore it as well.

 

[Devin]

I know this isn't the popular opinion around here but to play devil's advocate I actually don't mind this new J1772 plug, despite it's new gonads. Yeah I'm disappointed it wouldn't be compatible with the Chademo connector I've got on my car but that was a risk I took knowing full well the port may be defunct soon. I really don't think this pilot-fish style plug is that bad though. It does look easier to operate than the Chademo plug particularly for those with disabilities or less strength and I like the idea that it at least incorporates the existing port.

What I don't like is that there doesn't appear to be backwards compatibility so you could get an AC charge from a L3 1772 plug if your car were not so equipped. It doesn't make sense to not make the ports compatible either way because at a charging station with 3 L2 EVSEs and 1 L3 charger you can still make use of all your charging equipment if 2 LEAFs and 2 Volts show up.

At the end of the day I look at this new proposed standard and compare with Chademo and the key differences I see are one plug versus two. I'd rather have one plug which takes up less space on the car and is somewhat simpler for new EV drivers to understand than a secondary plug like Chademo. Most importantly I just want to see some standardization so we can get on with it and start seeing L3 stations installed en masse.

 

[davewill]

What I don't like is that there doesn't appear to be backwards compatibility so you could get an AC charge from a L3 1772 plug if your car were not so equipped. It doesn't make sense to not make the ports compatible either way because at a charging station with 3 L2 EVSEs and 1 L3 charger you can still make use of all your charging equipment if 2 LEAFs and 2 Volts show up.

I'm not convinced that it's possible to have both compatibility with existing J1772 on the new receptacle and for the new plug in the old receptacle. You can't count on space around the "old" receptacles for the extra contacts. The space available would vary from car to car.

 

[TEG]

What I don't like is that there doesn't appear to be backwards compatibility so you could get an AC charge from a L3 1772 plug if your car were not so equipped. It doesn't make sense to not make the ports compatible either way because at a charging station with 3 L2 EVSEs and 1 L3 charger you can still make use of all your charging equipment if 2 LEAFs and 2 Volts show up.

Yes, some have said in effect "if we let the L2s charge there, they would tie up a valuable DC L3 resource that needs to be saved only for times when DC quick-charge capable vehicles want to charge there."
I am not sure what the correct answer should be, but it seems they did design it for L3 use only even though it has the L2 AC plug portion embedded within.
I wonder if someone built an L2 extender device if they could surreptitiously AC charge from one of the SAE combo plugs?

I don't know of any manufacturers which have announced SAE Combo ports on their vehicles. If someone were to install an SAE Combo charger now, and it didn't allow AC charging from it, there would be no point to it today. So it seems we will have to wait a while for both the "chicken" and the "egg" to arrive.

Meanwhile, more and more Leafs with CHAdeMO roam the roads wishing for a place to quick charge.

 

[mitch672]

considering how few actual chademo chargers exist in the US, I would not worry about this new connector. If they standardize that for the car end, it won't make a difference to the existing J-1772 AC only chargers, they will work fine with it. Also, for everyone of the "new" DC fast chargers that uses that new connector, there are likely to be 4-6 of the "old" J-1772 standard AC only chargers at the same location, so it's not going to ever become an issue. Add to the fact you won't even see this for years on EVs anyway. Yes, you won't be able to use a new DC fast charger with the new connector to plug into your 2011 or 2012 Leaf, then again, the leases will be up on them by the time this is deployed anyway.

 

[TEG]

considering how few actual chademo chargers exist in the US, I would not worry about this new connector.

Huh? That is what I worry about - that they don't roll out more CHAdeMO chargers in the USA because they are in a "holding pattern" waiting for this new SAE Combo thing to take over. Useful only for some future vehicles.

Are you considering how many Leaf's have been delivered with CHAdeMO ports already?
And the CHAdeMO port is now standard, not optional anymore.

 

[TEG]

Yes, you won't be able to use a new DC fast charger with the new connector to plug into your 2011 or 2012 Leaf, then again, the leases will be up on them by the time this is deployed anyway.

I plan to keep my Leaf a lot more than 2 or 3 years, so it would be nice if that CHAdeMO port was useful.
You are basically saying that everyone should lease a Leaf now because it is going to be obsoleted in 3 years?
(At least in terms of DC charging?)

The government funded EVproject is supposed to include public CHAdeMO stations. It is part of the reason I bought a Leaf in the first place.

 

[JPWhite]

Yes, you won't be able to use a new DC fast charger with the new connector to plug into your 2011 or 2012 Leaf, then again, the leases will be up on them by the time this is deployed anyway.

I plan to keep my Leaf a lot more than 2 or 3 years, so it would be nice if that CHAdeMO port was useful.
You are basically saying that everyone should lease a Leaf now because it is going to be obsoleted in 3 years?
(At least in terms of DC charging?)

The government funded EVproject is supposed to include public CHAdeMO stations. It is part of the reason I bought a Leaf in the first place.

I too plan to keep the LEAF a good while, in fact until the wheels drop off, unless there is a clear reason to trade earlier.

This weekend reminded me of why we need the infrastructure we were promised. We took a trip to Dickson TN. Had to use my wife's Altima. (It's not until you go back to driving a gas car you really appreciate how smooth and quiet the LEAF is . Had Nissan themselves required dealers to put in fast chargers, then I could have taken my LEAF, 60 miles each way is OK if you can fast charge at the remote end or somewhere along the way. Had the EV project put fast chargers at Cracker Barrel's as promised, once again the trip would have been possible in the LEAF. We went out for dinner prior to returning anyway, Cracker Barrel would have benefited from our business instead of us going to Logan's.

 

[Spies]

The government funded EVproject is supposed to include public CHAdeMO stations. It is part of the reason I bought a Leaf in the first place.

I am with TEG on this.

Rant on. What kills me is that the government funded EVproject was perfectly happy to go along with CHAdeMO and even pay to have the CHAdeMO connector installed on customers Leafs. Now its coming up on a year since the first Leafs were delivered and still no public CHAdeMO chargers within range of my Leaf. Sure there is the one in Vacaville but the excuse was it was shut down to the public because of UL listing concerns. So now that a number of CHAdeMO chargers are UL listed I can hear the excuse being that we are waiting for the J1772 DC solution to become available before deployment. At this rate the EVproject is never going to get DC charging statistics from the program at least in my area before the program expires and will result in a complete waste of the funds already spent. SAE has known for years that DC quick charge capable cars were coming and yet here we are still waiting for their solution and yet I have a car in my garage that already has a solution. Rant off.

 

[JPWhite]

At this rate the EVproject is never going to get DC charging statistics from the program at least in my area before the program expires and will result in a complete waste of the funds already spent.

Our tax dollars at work.....

 

[davewill]

...At this rate the EVproject is never going to get DC charging statistics from the program at least in my area before the program expires and will result in a complete waste of the funds already spent...

Actually, they will because your RFID card will still be registered to you for public charging, and even if the home part of the project is over, unless you purposely unplug the net just to spite them, your home charging stats will still be collected on your account as well.

 

[Packet]

What I don't like is that there doesn't appear to be backwards compatibility so you could get an AC charge from a L3 1772 plug if your car were not so equipped.

I think the goal is not backwards compatibility on the plug side, but compatibility with both plugs on the vehicle side.

Realistically, having a plug that can plug into both the older L2 J1772 port and the new L3 J1772 port would be difficult; you can't guarantee space around the existing L2 J-plug ports, as was pointed out in the thread earlier, and if you make it two plugs that you have to put in separately, that ruins the simplicity factor by complicating the hookup.

This at least gives you one plug on the vehicle side, where you can plug in an existing L2 J1772 plug OR the new L3 J1772 plug. Is it ideal? No. But I can see the SAE's desire to have just one type of connector on the cars.

 

[Spies]

Actually, they will because your RFID card will still be registered to you for public charging, and even if the home part of the project is over, unless you purposely unplug the net just to spite them, your home charging stats will still be collected on your account as well.

You do make a point about being able to capture the DC charging data via use of the registered RFID card as long as those chargers are in the EVproject but it would still require roll out of CHAdeMO chargers in order to do it at a minimum or that J1772 DC is is somehow backward compatible. If either of these things don't happen it will still turn out to be a wasteful investment from my perspective.

 

[Devin]

What I don't like is that there doesn't appear to be backwards compatibility so you could get an AC charge from a L3 1772 plug if your car were not so equipped.

This at least gives you one plug on the vehicle side, where you can plug in an existing L2 J1772 plug OR the new L3 J1772 plug. Is it ideal? No. But I can see the SAE's desire to have just one type of connector on the cars.

Yeah, I like the idea of one connector to rule them all. Let's just hope we don't have a repeat of the Magnecharge SPI vs. LPI thing.

 

[ht2]

From First Public Charger in San Diego 6/16 Show up to Support!
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4273&start=91

A few notes on today's event and a summary of the conversations I had with reps from Ecotailty and SDG&E.

• They handed out RFID cards at the event.
• The Blink RFID cards will be in the mail by next week.
• The EVSEs will be free until the end of the year.
• You need a card to activate the free charge. I used the EVSE after the event was over and I needed to swipe the EVSE to activate it.
• Before the end of the year you will need to give credit card info to activate your card.
• The card will not work like Chargepoint where you need to add a minimum $25 credit to the card, you will instead be billed on your actual usage.
• The charging rate is not yet set in stone. They are thinking of giving a frequent user discount or some other incentive. This will be worked out before the end of the year.
• They plan to add a charger reservation system and a mobil app.
• The QC CHAdeMO socket is being objected to by the Detroit manufactuers. They want the same footprint as the J1772 socket so they can utilize the existing openings on the side of the Volt and Focus. The other factor that is a concern is ADA compliance as it pertains to the weight of the CHAdeMO cable. They want the QC cable to be as lightweight as possible.
• 49 Leafs were at the event. Impressive!

I don't think this socket can utilize existing openings on the side of the Volt and Focus and most likely this connector and cable is bigger and heavier then new prototype SEI CHAdeMO connector and cable.

Link for new lightweight CHAdeMO connector and cable.
http://global-sei.com/sn/2011/403/6b.html

 

[planet4ever]

I withdraw this post. Based on TEG's link it looks like I was way off base. ... not for the first time in my life.

Ray

 

[TEG]

Interesting to revisit this article which is just over one year old now:
http://www.keenforgreen.com/b/plug-2010-two-solutions-dc-fast-charging-evs

...Developments in the next 12 months will determine which standard becomes dominant in the United States. If sufficient Leaf and CHAdeMO charger deployments occur, then CHAdeMO can become a de facto standard. On the other hand, if SAE finalizes the combo connector quickly, and if a major OEM such as GM or Ford rolls out vehicles with the combo connector soon, then it might displace CHAdeMO. Ironically, GM is leading the standardization effort for this combo connector, but their upcoming Volt does not have (or critically need) a DC fast charging port because GM included a gas engine for extending range. So, Ford’s early support of the combo connector is probably key if SAE is to have its way...

Any news from Ford? No combo socket on the Volt? How about on the Focus EV?
This is taking longer to get sorted out and settled than many were predicting.

 

[TEG]

A recent SAE newletter:
http://www.sae.org/standardsdev/news/P111164.pdf

 

[ht2]

Any news from Ford? No combo socket on the Volt? How about on the Focus EV?
This is taking longer to get sorted out and settled than many were predicting.

No news. Last news was "Ford Focus Electric Likely Won't Support DC Fast Charging at Launch" in January.
http://www.plugincars.com/ford-focus-electric-likely-wont-support-dc-fast-charging-launch-106739.html