J1772 combo plug (aka CCS aka Frankenplug) charger counts

[Reddy]

Don't know if there is a more pertinent thread, but it looks like Hawaii has a dual Chademo/CSS unit:
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=16898

 

[Berlino]

Plugshare now shows 10 SAE/Combo units in the Continental US. This calls for a bottle of champagne. We will also have to switch from fingers to an alternate counting method if this keeps up.

 

[GetOffYourGas]

Plugshare now shows 10 SAE/Combo units in the Continental US. This calls for a bottle of champagne. We will also have to switch from fingers to an alternate counting method if this keeps up.

Or learn binary. I can count to 1023 on two hands. At this rate, that ought to suffice for my lifetime...

 

[Nubo]

Plugshare now shows 10 SAE/Combo units in the Continental US. This calls for a bottle of champagne. We will also have to switch from fingers to an alternate counting method if this keeps up.

Or learn binary. I can count to 1023 on two hands. At this rate, that ought to suffice for my lifetime...

I'm not fluent with binary counting with fingers, but Chisanbop is surprisingly easy to pick up and gets you to 99. I've found it useful:
http://cs.iupui.edu/~aharris/chis/chis.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[TonyWilliams]

You know what I love most about Frankenplug installs? Without exception, every one includes a CHAdeMO plug. The only place that I know that won't do this is Germany... for hopefully obvious reasons.

PS: for folks who don't find that obvious, ALL the German auto makers signed up with Frankenplug Combo2 (not to be confused with, or compatible with, Combo1 used by GM). So, when the German government spends money, it obviously will support the home team!!!

 

[scottf200]

You know what I love most about Frankenplug installs? Without exception, every one includes a CHAdeMO plug. The only place that I know that won't do this is Germany... for hopefully obvious reasons.

PS: for folks who don't find that obvious, ALL the German auto makers signed up with Frankenplug Combo2 (not to be confused with, or compatible with, Combo1 used by GM). So, when the German government spends money, it obviously will support the home team!!!

As the CTO at http://www.evoasis.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; are you going to be putting_in/recommending the dual DCFC plug chargers or are you sticking with only chademo?

I'm very likely buying both the chademo and CCS combo adapter for my Tesla when available.

 

[GetOffYourGas]

Plugshare now shows 10 SAE/Combo units in the Continental US. This calls for a bottle of champagne. We will also have to switch from fingers to an alternate counting method if this keeps up.

Or learn binary. I can count to 1023 on two hands. At this rate, that ought to suffice for my lifetime...

I'm not fluent with binary counting with fingers, but Chisanbop is surprisingly easy to pick up and gets you to 99. I've found it useful:
http://cs.iupui.edu/~aharris/chis/chis.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There's always the more universally understood ASL (American Sign Language):
http://www.lifeprint.com/asl101/pages-layout/numbersdiscussion.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Back on the original topic, it seems that we will have at least two CCS-capable cars sold nationwide within the year - the BMW i3 and the VW e-Golf. What are the chances that either of these companies will be anywhere near as aggressive as Nissan/Tesla at spending their own money to deploy infrastructure? I'm guessing pretty low.

I've been in contact with the NYS Thruway Authority (the Thruway runs from NYC to Buffalo, connecting the 13 largest cities in the state, and -combined with the LIE- probably about 90% of the population), and from their response, I get the feeling they are still waiting to see how the CHAdeMO/CCS battle plays out before putting in infrastructure. They have money to spend on it, but are holding back. I sure hope they aren't waiting for justification to simply install the SAE-backed standard (i.e. our "home team")

 

[TonyWilliams]

I've been in contact with the NYS Thruway Authority (the Thruway runs from NYC to Buffalo, connecting the 13 largest cities in the state, and -combined with the LIE- probably about 90% of the population), and from their response, I get the feeling they are still waiting to see how the CHAdeMO/CCS battle plays out before putting in infrastructure. They have money to spend on it, but are holding back. I sure hope they aren't waiting for justification to simply install the SAE-backed standard (i.e. our "home team")

That's exactly what they are waiting for; Nissan and Tesla to fail (or even hiccup). Just ask GM and they'll happily tell you that the USA is red, white and blue, apple pie, baseball and Chevrolet... oh, and Frankenplug.

Funny, but Tesla is never the home team according to GM. Also, the politicians didn't have to ask GM for any info... they happily supplied it, like they did in Ohio to stop Tesla sales. I suspect that some politicians or government decision makers would even believe German car makers over a Tesla or Nissan representative (both actually building pure EV's in the US, and leaders in their field).

The Frankenplug has very handily done it's job, just not as well as the GM puppet masters imagined. They have slowed EV infrastructure development.

 

[TonyWilliams]

You know what I love most about Frankenplug installs? Without exception, every one includes a CHAdeMO plug. The only place that I know that won't do this is Germany... for hopefully obvious reasons.

PS: for folks who don't find that obvious, ALL the German auto makers signed up with Frankenplug Combo2 (not to be confused with, or compatible with, Combo1 used by GM). So, when the German government spends money, it obviously will support the home team!!!

As the CTO at http://www.evoasis.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; are you going to be putting_in/recommending the dual DCFC plug chargers or are you sticking with only chademo?

I'm very likely buying both the chademo and CCS combo adapter for my Tesla when available.

EVOasis is completely agnostic to charger protocols. We installed CHAdeMO before it was a recognized world standard because those were the cars to be supported. As I type this, there are 10 public DC charge stations for BMW i3, Chevy Spark EV, and VW eGolf.

Only the i3 is expected to be sold in more than compliance levels, and just started shipping. We really don't know what will happen there.

So, right now, we would install a Tesla charger before a CCS one. It's just reality, as hard as that might be for some to accept.

We will be opening our first dual CHAdeMO installation the first week of July in Irvine.

 

[scottf200]

So, right now, we would install a Tesla charger before a CCS one.

I don't understand that comment since the Tesla chargers are free. Oh wait, I'm guessing you are not talking about a supercharger? Are you talking about the high power wall connector? http://shop.teslamotors.com/products/high-power-wall-connector" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

On second thought if you installed a supercharger then it would be like a gas station where they make their money on the convenience store products.

 

[TonyWilliams]

So, right now, we would install a Tesla charger before a CCS one.

I don't understand that comment since the Tesla chargers are free. Oh wait, I'm guessing you are not talking about a supercharger? Are you talking about the high power wall connector? http://shop.teslamotors.com/products/high-power-wall-connector" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

On second thought if you installed a supercharger then it would be like a gas station where they make their money on the convenience store products.

Nobody will willingly go to a "gas station" for [edit - 60] miles of energy per hour (HPWC @ 80 amps AC) if there are options.

I'm talking about a Supercharger. Yes, they are "free" from Tesla, but imagine if Tesla funded a private install. Or if it was in town, instead of between towns, and you really needed it? You would happily pay the small fee for 150kW, right?

 

[walterbays]

Nobody will willingly go to a "gas station" for 28 miles of energy per hour (HPWC @ 80 amps AC) if there are options.

Location, location, location. Who would drive past an EVoasis station, many miles out of their way, minutes lost, to a free station, in order to save $10? Probably not someone who paid $80k for their car.

Btw, here come another 200 stations equipped with both Chademo and CCS. http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2014/05/27/ozy-charging-stations-electric-cars/9624017/

 

[GetOffYourGas]

Nobody will willingly go to a "gas station" for 28 miles of energy per hour (HPWC @ 80 amps AC) if there are options.

Maybe not, but 80A / 240V is much more than 28 miles/hour. At nearly 20kW, and 3 miles/kWh, that's 60 miles/hour.

You are also assuming that there are options. The supercharger network is impressive, but it is not impervious. The map looks wonderful with all of those overlapping range circles, but in the real world it still won't cover a large number of trips.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Nobody will willingly go to a "gas station" for 28 miles of energy per hour (HPWC @ 80 amps AC) if there are options.

Maybe not, but 80A / 240V is much more than 28 miles/hour. At nearly 20kW, and 3 miles/kWh, that's 60 miles/hour.

You are also assuming that there are options. The supercharger network is impressive, but it is not impervious. The map looks wonderful with all of those overlapping range circles, but in the real world it still won't cover a large number of trips.

Yes, my brain defaulted to the 40 amp single charger on my Rav4 EV. Of course, Tesla Model S/X have optional twin 40 amp chargers for about 60 miles per hour charging.

 

[DougWantsALeaf]

Until the leaf has a much longer range asking for more distant travel, charge rate isn't to big of a burden with home charging

 

[GRA]

Back on the original topic, it seems that we will have at least two CCS-capable cars sold nationwide within the year - the BMW i3 and the VW e-Golf. What are the chances that either of these companies will be anywhere near as aggressive as Nissan/Tesla at spending their own money to deploy infrastructure? I'm guessing pretty low.

I've been in contact with the NYS Thruway Authority (the Thruway runs from NYC to Buffalo, connecting the 13 largest cities in the state, and -combined with the LIE- probably about 90% of the population), and from their response, I get the feeling they are still waiting to see how the CHAdeMO/CCS battle plays out before putting in infrastructure. They have money to spend on it, but are holding back. I sure hope they aren't waiting for justification to simply install the SAE-backed standard (i.e. our "home team")

At the moment there are three BMW dealers in the Bay Area installing CCS chargers, which is a hell of a lot more support from the manufacturer than Nissan supplied in the first two years or so of the LEAF's existence. BMW, at least, seems to recognize that car sales and infrastructure are tied together, although we'll have to see if the individual dealers restrict the chargers to only BMWs and/or only to cars sold by that dealership, or if they realize that letting any CCS-equipped car charge there will boost the adoption rate of all CCS cars.

We'll also have to see if GM and VW will step up. VW-ERL in Belmont has the sole CCS in the Bay Area currently, but it seems to have communication issues with non-VW CCS-equipped cars that prevent them charging, or else it's a problem with the charger itself. Whichever, AFAIK no Spark or i3 has yet been able to charge there.

 

[TomT]

If every BMW dealer that sells the i3 installed a CCS charger, and if MB were to also follow suit with the B class EV dealers when their QC option becomes available, the tide could swing very quickly toward a decent mix of both.

At the moment there are three BMW dealers in the Bay Area installing CCS chargers, which is a hell of a lot more support from the manufacturer than Nissan supplied in the first two years or so of the LEAF's existence.

 

[scottf200]

So, right now, we would install a Tesla charger before a CCS one.

I don't understand that comment since the Tesla chargers are free. Oh wait, I'm guessing you are not talking about a supercharger? Are you talking about the high power wall connector? http://shop.teslamotors.com/products/high-power-wall-connector" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; On second thought if you installed a supercharger then it would be like a gas station where they make their money on the convenience store products.

Nobody will willingly go to a "gas station" for [edit - 60] miles of energy per hour (HPWC @ 80 amps AC) if there are options. I'm talking about a Supercharger. Yes, they are "free" from Tesla, but imagine if Tesla funded a private install. Or if it was in town, instead of between towns, and you really needed it? You would happily pay the small fee for 150kW, right?

If I am traveling, I would happily pay a small fee for that. I'm not quite sure of the various use case scenarios where it is useful for a 60 or 85 kWh. Perhaps if you normally charge to 60% (what I plan to do) and traveled more than expected that day for work and have plans that changed. Or perhaps a GEN III scenerio. Or perhaps you can't charge at home (apartment, condo, etc). You could have a monthly subscription that would still be cost effective. ie. provide free-wifi for these subscription folks so they can play/work while charging ever 3rd day or every week.

 

[GetOffYourGas]

Nobody will willingly go to a "gas station" for [edit - 60] miles of energy per hour (HPWC @ 80 amps AC) if there are options. I'm talking about a Supercharger. Yes, they are "free" from Tesla, but imagine if Tesla funded a private install. Or if it was in town, instead of between towns, and you really needed it? You would happily pay the small fee for 150kW, right?

If I am traveling, I would happily pay a small fee for that. I'm not quite sure of the various use case scenarios where it is useful for a 60 or 85 kWh. Perhaps if you normally charge to 60% (what I plan to do) and traveled more than expected that day for work and have plans that changed. Or perhaps a GEN III scenerio. Or perhaps you can't charge at home (apartment, condo, etc). You could have a monthly subscription that would still be cost effective. ie. provide free-wifi for these subscription folks so they can play/work while charging ever 3rd day or every week.

Another example would be if you have a 265-mile range car and need to travel 325 miles that day. A 1-hour stop for lunch anywhere from 60 miles to 265 miles into the trip would give you that extra boost you need to make it to your destination.

 

[KeiJidosha]

...Btw, here come another 200 stations equipped with both Chademo and CCS. http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2014/05/27/ozy-charging-stations-electric-cars/9624017/

In Norway - "By the end of 2016, Dutch residents will be able to use 201 fast-charging stations in a country that's a tenth the size of California, and users will never be more than 31 miles away from a station."