Degradation on Brand New 2015 SV

[LeftieBiker]

Don't all those red bars represent cells out of balance? Also, the accessory battery voltage is critically low at 11.92 volts. Charge it immediately, with an external 12 volt charger! It should be no lower than 12.5 volts.

 

[Tyger]

LeafSpy screens. I'm a bit concerned about the 91% SOH with less than 500 miles. Anyone care to shed light?

http://s18.postimg.org/98ozbf9mh/image.jpg

http://s18.postimg.org/w8r1a0i2h/image.jpg

Edit: Upon further reading, it appears that some 2013s showed mid 260s when new, but 2015s seem to show 280-295 gids. This is what I was expecting to see. And more like 22.5 kWh remaining, not 20.8. See for instance:

http://i.imgur.com/hWtOzEd.jpg

Your numbers look very similar to mine. (MFG date 9/2014, purchase date 10/2015.) My SOH has been bouncing around between 90 and 94 for the most part since I started measuring it at 800 miles, and at 3000 miles it hasn't really changed that pattern.

I've been doing primarily L1 charging and relatively light driving (Light enough that I can get away with L1 charging most of the time, and even then only a few times a week), and from what I have seen I suspect that may be artificially lowering the reading. Whether it is the L1 primary charging or the light driving I don't know. However one day I had done a bunch of driving over the weekend, then a day or two later did a trip that required charging at the destination, which I was able to do L2 to full (But not fully balanced), then I charged it once I was at home (L1), and the SOH popped up briefly to 97% (my highest reading) before settling back down to the 90-94 range a few charges later.

 

[apacheguy]

There are a bit low, but I'm not sure if you established any of the following prior?

1. How long the car sat on the lot before you bought it and when it was manufactured? You could have a car that has 500 miles, but a battery that is over a year old and has sat through a summer on the car lot. This makes a difference.

2. I think a lot of 2015 cars see a drop in max capacity during the winter.

3. How you charge the car can often impact the max reading

I wouldn't freak out to much at this point. I would wait to see how it reacts in April or may when it warms up.

To put your mind at ease, my 2015 car was 292 when new, dropped to 285 (approx) after a few thousand miles, when winter hit last year, with about 8K miles it was averaging 270-275, then during summer of 2015 with about 16K miles, it was back up to 280-288, and now that we are in another winter, with about 21K miles, the car has been between 263-271. My point is that even last year with minimal miles on my car it was tracking low 270s, but it came back up. Your SOH is at 91%, I see no reason why your pack won't be back into the 280s when the weather warms up.

Here are my most recent stats. 21,750mi

270 GIDS
20.92 kwh
97.05 SOC
86.75 SOH
87.93 HX
57.48 Ahr
55.9 degrees

Well, that's great for 21 k miles. Not so great for 500 miles. Maybe I just don't understand SOH. I did a quick charge and lots of driving today. Pack temps were upper 70s. SOH declined to 90% and was steady across a wide SOC range. I also hit LBW at 19% (50 gids) and VLBW at 9% (25 gids). This is not normal for a new car from what I gather. I really don't understand this. I'll do another L2 charge to full tonight and post the results tomorrow. To answer your other questions:

1. It is an April manufacture, but was only released to the dealer in October.

2. Yes, I agree. But even warming up my pack as I did today did not appear to improve anything.

3. I L2 charge most often and I do let the charge complete with the car remaining connected for several hours after completion (overnight).

Don't all those red bars represent cells out of balance? Also, the accessory battery voltage is critically low at 11.92 volts. Charge it immediately, with an external 12 volt charger! It should be no lower than 12.5 volts.

Hmm. Good point. I missed the 12 V voltage. I charged the HV pack the night before (as evidenced by 97.4% SOC). Shouldn't the DC DC maintain the 12 V during charging?

Your numbers look very similar to mine. (MFG date 9/2014, purchase date 10/2015.) My SOH has been bouncing around between 90 and 94 for the most part since I started measuring it at 800 miles, and at 3000 miles it hasn't really changed that pattern.

I've been doing primarily L1 charging and relatively light driving (Light enough that I can get away with L1 charging most of the time, and even then only a few times a week), and from what I have seen I suspect that may be artificially lowering the reading. Whether it is the L1 primary charging or the light driving I don't know. However one day I had done a bunch of driving over the weekend, then a day or two later did a trip that required charging at the destination, which I was able to do L2 to full (But not fully balanced), then I charged it once I was at home (L1), and the SOH popped up briefly to 97% (my highest reading) before settling back down to the 90-94 range a few charges later.

Well, I always L2 charge and I have let the charge completely finish on several occasions so my pack ought to be fully balanced. Not sure why so many cell strings were highlighted in LeafSpy. I also do not baby my pack. I drive over 60 miles on some days and therefore my pack has cycled 100->5% routinely.

May I ask how many kWh are displayed on a full charge?

 

[GerryAZ]

KWh displayed by Leaf Spy depends upon the setting for Wh/Gid so the Gid number is better for comparison. LBW happens at 49 Gids and VLBW happens at 24 Gids consistently for all model years through 2015 (30 kWh battery in 2016 may be different).

 

[Tyger]

Well, I always L2 charge and I have let the charge completely finish on several occasions so my pack ought to be fully balanced. Not sure why so many cell strings were highlighted in LeafSpy. I also do not baby my pack. I drive over 60 miles on some days and therefore my pack has cycled 100->5% routinely.

May I ask how many kWh are displayed on a full charge?

Well there goes that theory. It sounds like you're pretty much the opposite of everything I was thinking might cause those sort of readings on a new 2015.

On a typical charge I'll see around 20.5 kWh, +/- .5 kWh; this morning, for example, I had 20.8 kWh (with the SOH up to 92% from 90%). The best I've seen (Once only) was 22 kWh. That was from my home L1 charge the night after my day trip with a series of L2 charges.

 

[apacheguy]

OP here. Just a quick update. Things are not looking better.

263 gids
55.9 Ahr
SOH 90%
Hx 84.7% (what does that mean?)

 

[TonyWilliams]

IMO 24kWh from the wall at 208/240V on a '13+ LEAF is completely normal for a couple reasons.

1. The 13+ is slightly more efficient than the '11-12 Tony used in your reference.
2. There is a decent amount of variability in energy used to charge from the wall so you'd need to repeat the test a couple times at least to be reasonably sure the LBC didn't either hit turtle early or cut off charging early because of cell imbalance.

Exactly. Since my comments, there is a more efficient charger at a faster speed (16 amps for 2011-2012 to 27.5 amps for 2013 - newer).

I suspect 24kWh from the wall may be normal.

Get the LEAF Spy data.

OP here. Just a quick update. Things are not looking better.

263 gids
55.9 Ahr
SOH 90%
Hx 84.7% (what does that mean?)

Well, that's not exactly new car performance.