If Nissan/Infiniti built the Tesla Model S...

[evmike]

Who has the better battery technology to build a car like the Tesla Model S?

It seems Nissan is leaving lots of money on the table by not developing an EV with significantly more range like the Tesla Model S. I think they have all the technology but not the will. Particularly if they don't need a cooling system for their battery.

 

[TomT]

I don't know that anyone knows or can predict that at this early juncture...

Who has the better battery technology to build a car like the Tesla Model S?

 

[adric22]

Who has the better battery technology to build a car like the Tesla Model S?

It seems Nissan is leaving lots of money on the table by not developing an EV with significantly more range like the Tesla Model S. I think they have all the technology but not the will. Particularly if they don't need a cooling system for their battery.

I'm quite certain that Nissan's battery technology would be more than capable of providing the range that the Model S has. You'd simply need a large battery pack. Nissan reps have been asked about this on many occasion and they have responded that they had to make a compromise on price vs. range and decided that the 100 mile range was the best option for the most people.

 

[smkettner]

I would have paid more for a bigger battery. Just going to hang in there for an improved replacement.

 

[Boomer23]

I think that the veil of secrecy will be lifted by the end of this year and we will find out that Elon Musk has actually been working for Carlos Ghosn all this time, and that the Tesla S will be badged as an Infiniti. Carlos has had all the bases covered all along!

 

[TonyWilliams]

I think that the veil of secrecy will be lifted by the end of this year and we will find out that Elon Musk has actually been working for Carlos Ghosn all this time, and that the Tesla S will be badged as an Infiniti. Carlos has had all the bases covered all along!

And Tesla, all the while, toying with Toyota and Daimler.

 

[stanley]

The Leaf needs the option of a larger battery pack. Otherwise my next purchase will not be a Leaf but a car that gives more range. 80% of the time I do not need more range but the 20% need will dictate my next purchase. With more range, Nissan can effectively emasculate the competitiveness of theVolt and hybrids.

 

[EVDRIVER]

It is not just about capacity but the load on the pack. If you put a Telsla drive in a LEAF it would need cooling.

 

[surfingslovak]

It is not just about capacity but the load on the pack. If you put a Telsla drive in a LEAF it would need cooling.

The Model S will be powered by a water cooled 300 hp (220 kw) electric motor with 400ft/lb (541 Nm) from zero rpm.

Is this still correct?

 

[Ingineer]

It is not just about capacity but the load on the pack. If you put a Telsla drive in a LEAF it would need cooling.

Not necessarily. If you take another identical Leaf pack and parallel it with the existing, then you have have the potential to have twice the output power without stressing the cells any differently. A Leaf pulls about 250 amps average on hard acceleration, and it's got a ~65 amp hour pack, so that's just under 4C. Going to a 130ah pack would give us 500 amps. Then we take another Leaf transaxle and put in the back for a 4-wheel drive Super-Leaf!

OT, but an electric supercar with 4 motors (1 per wheel) could do all kinds of magic torque vectoring, that would be fun!

-Phil

 

[coolfilmaker]

It is not just about capacity but the load on the pack. If you put a Telsla drive in a LEAF it would need cooling.

Not necessarily. If you take another identical Leaf pack and parallel it with the existing, then you have have the potential to have twice the output power without stressing the cells any differently. A Leaf pulls about 250 amps average on hard acceleration, and it's got a ~65 amp hour pack, so that's just under 4C. Going to a 130ah pack would give us 500 amps. Then we take another Leaf transaxle and put in the back for a 4-wheel drive Super-Leaf!

OT, but an electric supercar with 4 motors (1 per wheel) could do all kinds of magic torque vectoring, that would be fun!

-Phil

There have been a lot of cars built with hub motors but they never seem to actually use more than a small fraction of the power available. I wonder why that is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheel_hub_motor#Concept_cars" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[Ingineer]

Hub motors would be a bad idea for a sports car. The current technology would be best served by having the motors inboard, otherwise there is going to be an unsprung mass ratio problem with the suspension that will adversely affect handling.

-Phil

 

[evnow]

Tesla & Nissan are persueing different strategies.

Tesla :
- Commodity Li Cells
- Higher Density
- Difficult to quick charge
- Needs Cooling

Nissan :
- Specialized battery
- Lower density
- QC friendly
- No need to cool

All this means,
Tesla : High priced longer range cars that are not QC friendly
Nissan : Lower priced lower range cars that are QC friendly

Pick your poison.

 

[palmermd]

OT, but an electric supercar with 4 motors (1 per wheel) could do all kinds of magic torque vectoring, that would be fun!

-Phil

it is called the Rimac ConceptOne

http://www.rimac-automobili.com/concept_one/propulsion-system-8" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[evmike]

Tesla & Nissan are persueing different strategies.

Tesla :
- Commodity Li Cells
- Higher Density
- Difficult to quick charge
- Needs Cooling

Nissan :
- Specialized battery
- Lower density
- QC friendly
- No need to cool

All this means,
Tesla : High priced longer range cars that are not QC friendly
Nissan : Lower priced lower range cars that are QC friendly

Pick your poison.

I don't know why you say Tesla S is not QC friendly? They have a "Supercharger" DC charge feature. It allows 90 kW which is much more than the 50 kW for the LEAF. It is standard on the 85 kWh battery. All models support 20 kW 240 V AC charging as well which is much more than the 3.3 or 6.6 kW charging for the LEAF.

 

[coolfilmaker]

I don't know why you say Tesla S is not QC friendly? They have a "Supercharger" DC charge feature. It allows 90 kW which is much more than the 50 kW for the LEAF. It is standard on the 85 kWh battery. All models support 20 kW 240 V AC charging as well which is much more than the 3.3 or 6.6 kW charging for the LEAF.

At least in LA it won't be able to use the already established massive network of charger that we have.

 

[surfingslovak]

I don't know why you say Tesla S is not QC friendly? They have a "Supercharger" DC charge feature. It allows 90 kW which is much more than the 50 kW for the LEAF. It is standard on the 85 kWh battery. All models support 20 kW 240 V AC charging as well which is much more than the 3.3 or 6.6 kW charging for the LEAF.

At least in LA it won't be able to use the already established massive network of charger that we have.

There was a lot of debate on the Tesla forum around the decision not to support fast charging on the 40 kWh model. The consensus was that the cells could not be warrantied for seven years if QC was allowed. I believe that the Roadster only had five years battery warranty. My counter argument was that QC can be always throttled down, and if the 40 kWh pack couldn't take the brunt of a 90 kW supercharger, it could probably take 40 kW. Tesla has not commented on providing adapters to make Model S compatible with existing CHAdeMO charging infrastructure.

That said, every owner can purchase a 20 kW onboard charger option. If level 2 stations with this type of power output were available in greater numbers, it would eliminate most of the need for fast charging.

 

[Christopher]

I don't know why you say Tesla S is not QC friendly? They have a "Supercharger" DC charge feature. It allows 90 kW which is much more than the 50 kW for the LEAF. It is standard on the 85 kWh battery. All models support 20 kW 240 V AC charging as well which is much more than the 3.3 or 6.6 kW charging for the LEAF.

At least in LA it won't be able to use the already established massive network of charger that we have.

Why do you say that? Elon just repeated again at the shareholders meeting this week (video on their web site) that they'll provide adapters to use existing charging infrastructure.

 

[surfingslovak]

Why do you say that? Elon just repeated again at the shareholders meeting this week (video on their web site) that they'll provide adapters to use existing charging infrastructure.

Here is the recording of the shareholder meeting:


Click to open

 

[nosuchthing]

Leaf won't brick! That nixed my interest in Tesla and perhaps even eRAV in the future.