GM Fights Back

My Nissan Leaf Forum

Help Support My Nissan Leaf Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
a good lesson in this story for those of you who think the right-wing puke machine will not exploit the Balboa Park issue to attack Obama.
(I understand that Tony's approach is softer.)

this article shows they will bend any fact to undo EVs and Obama, even to attacking General Motors.
---
update
*I shudda hyperlinked Balboa Park here:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=8254" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
tnx
 
thankyouOB said:
a good lesson in this story for those of you who think the right-wing puke machine will not exploit the Balboa Park issue to attack Obama.
(I understand that Tony's approach is softer.)

this article shows they will bend any fact to undo EVs and Obama, even to attacking General Motors.

What is the Balboa Part issue?
 
LTLFTcomposite said:
thankyouOB said:
a good lesson in this story for those of you who think the right-wing puke machine will not exploit the Balboa Park issue to attack Obama.
(I understand that Tony's approach is softer.)

this article shows they will bend any fact to undo EVs and Obama, even to attacking General Motors.

What is the Balboa Part issue?

It's the issue of the non-functioning Blink parts in Balboa Park:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=8254
 
oakwcj said:
A good article in today's SF Chronicle about the Republican effort to tar EVs [aka "Obamacars"] with the Solyndra and healthcare reform brushes:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2012/03/19/MTJA1NL8OD.DTL&type=autos

Good article.. I tell you what, it is exhausting for me. I'm a republican and I drive a Leaf. A lot of my friends, family, and co-workers are also republican. But they are far more polarized than me. They hate Obama and everything about him. If there is a story in the news about "Obama eats a cheeseburger" then they are posting on facebook or talking about how he did it wrong and why he doesn't know how to properly eat a cheeseburger. So it really doesn't matter what Obama does (even if it were the exact same thing a Republican president would have theoretically done), it is wrong. So as soon as somebody fictionally created a link between Obama and EVs (particularly the Volt), suddenly the Volt is bad in every way imaginable. I'm sure you've all heard the FUD:
  • It catches on fire.
  • It costs a million dollars a piece to make, all funded with taxpayer money.
  • Its only possible purpose is to solve global warming, which doesn't exist of course.
  • It costs more to operate than a gas car.
  • It pollutes more than a regular gas car because of the coal power.
  • The battery will need replacement after 5 years and cost $20,000
  • Nobody is buying them.
It is getting really annoying. I suppose the most annoying thing is that nobody wants to do their homework before forwarding on emails about that kind of thing, or spouting off nonsense verbally. And often bad press about the Volt tends to overlap into Leaf territory as well. So I'm constantly battling with people in my own political party on this subject matter. (I guess it is a good thing we agree on all of the economic issues, gun rights issues, foreign policy issues, etc.) The fact that I've been driving a Leaf for about a year with zero problems and nothing but extreme praise for the vehicle has certainly changed a lot of minds. A lot of my friends and family thought I was crazy for buying it. They were certain it would never work as a family car due to the range, or that it would be breaking down, or that I'd be getting it towed home every few days, etc. None of that has materialized.

I actually hope Obama is not re-elected. Now I'm saying that from two perspectives. One because I don't agree with his philosophy, but as far as EV's are concerned I think having his name attached to them is bad for EV acceptance. I suppose certain republican candidates might actually make matters worse if they repeal the tax credits. But take Rick Perry, for example.. (I know he doesn't stand a chance at election anymore) he is very much in favor of EVs and energy independence. If he were in office, and supported EVs then all of the sudden all of the republicans would support the EV movement. Right now they fight the EV movement solely because Obama's name has become attached to it.

I also agree with the article that they need to concentrate more on advertising the money savings over paying for gas. Most people I encounter still don't take "cost of ownership" into account when considering the cost of an EV. They just look at the sticker price. I've talked to many people who thought my car was "too expensive" but then when we started comparing numbers for gas and maintenance instead of just the car payment, often my car comes out considerably ahead. Sure.. My car payment is around $420 a month, but my fuel cost is about $10 per month. Compare to a vehicle that may have a $250 car payment with a $300 gas bill and other maintenance. The math is pretty easy. This really needs to be advertised to the public. People just don't get it. I think that would do a lot to debunk the "too expensive" myth.

And.. I've said it 100 times, so might as well make it 101. They need to get away from the environmental advertising. That only appeals to a small segment and alienates quite a few potential customers.
 
adric22 said:
oakwcj said:
A good article in today's SF Chronicle about the Republican effort to tar EVs [aka "Obamacars"] with the Solyndra and healthcare reform brushes:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2012/03/19/MTJA1NL8OD.DTL&type=autos

Good article.. I tell you what, it is exhausting for me. I'm a republican and I drive a Leaf. A lot of my friends, family, and co-workers are also republican. But they are far more polarized than me. They hate Obama and everything about him. If there is a story in the news about "Obama eats a cheeseburger" then they are posting on facebook or talking about how he did it wrong and why he doesn't know how to properly eat a cheeseburger. So it really doesn't matter what Obama does (even if it were the exact same thing a Republican president would have theoretically done), it is wrong. So as soon as somebody fictionally created a link between Obama and EVs (particularly the Volt), suddenly the Volt is bad in every way imaginable. I'm sure you've all heard the FUD:
  • It catches on fire.
  • It costs a million dollars a piece to make, all funded with taxpayer money.
  • Its only possible purpose is to solve global warming, which doesn't exist of course.
  • It costs more to operate than a gas car.
  • It pollutes more than a regular gas car because of the coal power.
  • The battery will need replacement after 5 years and cost $20,000
  • Nobody is buying them.
It is getting really annoying. I suppose the most annoying thing is that nobody wants to do their homework before forwarding on emails about that kind of thing, or spouting off nonsense verbally. And often bad press about the Volt tends to overlap into Leaf territory as well. So I'm constantly battling with people in my own political party on this subject matter. (I guess it is a good thing we agree on all of the economic issues, gun rights issues, foreign policy issues, etc.) The fact that I've been driving a Leaf for about a year with zero problems and nothing but extreme praise for the vehicle has certainly changed a lot of minds. A lot of my friends and family thought I was crazy for buying it. They were certain it would never work as a family car due to the range, or that it would be breaking down, or that I'd be getting it towed home every few days, etc. None of that has materialized.

maybe you need to change parties.

and, maybe your friends can just stop eating cheeseburgers cause Obama does it.
remember, if they cant bring themselves to drive a Leaf because it makes them feel all environmental-icky, the laugh is on them.
besides, I am not sure we want to share the secret with someone whose knuckles are dragging on the floor.
 
If the Republicans had one candidate that was worth a damn I MIGHT agree with you, but they do not. Thus, as an Independent, I have no choice but to vote for Obama again (nothing on this planet would have made me vote for a ticket with Sarah Palin on it - or a person who would have picked her as a running mate - thus he also got my vote last time)... The bottom line is that we seriously need a viable third party in this country!

adric22 said:
I actually hope Obama is not re-elected.
 
thanks for posting this, keep you chin up and continue to spread the word!!

adric22 said:
oakwcj said:
A good article in today's SF Chronicle about the Republican effort to tar EVs [aka "Obamacars"] with the Solyndra and healthcare reform brushes:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2012/03/19/MTJA1NL8OD.DTL&type=autos

Good article.. I tell you what, it is exhausting for me. I'm a republican and I drive a Leaf. A lot of my friends, family, and co-workers are also republican. But they are far more polarized than me. They hate Obama and everything about him. If there is a story in the news about "Obama eats a cheeseburger" then they are posting on facebook or talking about how he did it wrong and why he doesn't know how to properly eat a cheeseburger. So it really doesn't matter what Obama does (even if it were the exact same thing a Republican president would have theoretically done), it is wrong. So as soon as somebody fictionally created a link between Obama and EVs (particularly the Volt), suddenly the Volt is bad in every way imaginable. I'm sure you've all heard the FUD:
  • It catches on fire.
  • It costs a million dollars a piece to make, all funded with taxpayer money.
  • Its only possible purpose is to solve global warming, which doesn't exist of course.
  • It costs more to operate than a gas car.
  • It pollutes more than a regular gas car because of the coal power.
  • The battery will need replacement after 5 years and cost $20,000
  • Nobody is buying them.
It is getting really annoying. I suppose the most annoying thing is that nobody wants to do their homework before forwarding on emails about that kind of thing, or spouting off nonsense verbally. And often bad press about the Volt tends to overlap into Leaf territory as well. So I'm constantly battling with people in my own political party on this subject matter. (I guess it is a good thing we agree on all of the economic issues, gun rights issues, foreign policy issues, etc.) The fact that I've been driving a Leaf for about a year with zero problems and nothing but extreme praise for the vehicle has certainly changed a lot of minds. A lot of my friends and family thought I was crazy for buying it. They were certain it would never work as a family car due to the range, or that it would be breaking down, or that I'd be getting it towed home every few days, etc. None of that has materialized.

I actually hope Obama is not re-elected. Now I'm saying that from two perspectives. One because I don't agree with his philosophy, but as far as EV's are concerned I think having his name attached to them is bad for EV acceptance. I suppose certain republican candidates might actually make matters worse if they repeal the tax credits. But take Rick Perry, for example.. (I know he doesn't stand a chance at election anymore) he is very much in favor of EVs and energy independence. If he were in office, and supported EVs then all of the sudden all of the republicans would support the EV movement. Right now they fight the EV movement solely because Obama's name has become attached to it.

I also agree with the article that they need to concentrate more on advertising the money savings over paying for gas. Most people I encounter still don't take "cost of ownership" into account when considering the cost of an EV. They just look at the sticker price. I've talked to many people who thought my car was "too expensive" but then when we started comparing numbers for gas and maintenance instead of just the car payment, often my car comes out considerably ahead. Sure.. My car payment is around $420 a month, but my fuel cost is about $10 per month. Compare to a vehicle that may have a $250 car payment with a $300 gas bill and other maintenance. The math is pretty easy. This really needs to be advertised to the public. People just don't get it. I think that would do a lot to debunk the "too expensive" myth.

And.. I've said it 100 times, so might as well make it 101. They need to get away from the environmental advertising. That only appeals to a small segment and alienates quite a few potential customers.
 
There are a few of us who don't buy the nonsense rhetoric whatever the source but are also concerned this country is degenerating into two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P36x8rTb3jI[/youtube]

That said, GM may have grounds for a libel case against some media outlets, including Fox News. Not clear you can go around trashing a company's products with falsehoods, but they may be protected by their format in which many of their segments are presented as opinion, not news. Also, it is easy to point out statistics that are true, but misleading, for example the old saw about no new refineries have been built in 30 years (conveniently omitting the fact that capacity has been greatly increased at the facilities that remained after consolidation, and no one is interested in building any new ones anyway as it is more cost effective to increase capacity at current facilities).

It would be an interesting case, although hard to see it ending well for GM.
 
adric22's point is very valid. I bought this car for these reasons:

- I hate paying a high price for gas, when very good alternatives are available.The less we depend on those countries which support fundamentalism the better

- I enjoy the ride of the Leaf. Smooth and elegant.

- low maintenance

- last: guilt feeling of burning non-renewable fuel for my own selfish reasons.
 
They'd just use the "top gear" defense anyway - "As an entertainment show, we have no responsibility to uphold journalistic integrity!"
 
mkjayakumar said:
adric22's point is very valid. I bought this car for these reasons:

- I hate paying a high price for gas, when very good alternatives are available.The less we depend on those countries which support fundamentalism the better

- I enjoy the ride of the Leaf. Smooth and elegant.

- low maintenance

- last: guilt feeling of burning non-renewable fuel for my own selfish reasons.

that makes you an environmentalist.
 
thankyouOB said:
mkjayakumar said:
adric22's point is very valid. I bought this car for these reasons:

- I hate paying a high price for gas, when very good alternatives are available.The less we depend on those countries which support fundamentalism the better

- I enjoy the ride of the Leaf. Smooth and elegant.

- low maintenance

- last: guilt feeling of burning non-renewable fuel for my own selfish reasons.

that makes you an environmentalist.

Not necessarily. I would say that makes him a conservationist. Oil is a valuable and finite resource.
 
Hold on.. how would the first three reasons I had listed be in the arena of conservation or environmentalism ? I would say my top 3 reasons are mostly economical..
 
we have had this discussion before on other threads. you can read about it there, if you wish.

drive a car that pollutes less, doesnt use gasoline, helps the environment, reduces the need for oil = environmentalism
dont eat meat or dairy = vegetarian

you can say you do it to lower your cholesterol or to save money, but you are still a vegetarian.
 
That's the problem with labels, they never really fit. If you drive an electric car you are engaging in an activity that has a lower impact to the environment than driving a gasoline car, but does that make you an environmentalist or just a guy who drives an electric car? Al Gore flew around on private jets to speaking engagements about global warming, does that make him an environmentalist or a hypocrite? I personally believe that well chosen limited subsidies for alternative energy and energy efficiency are appropriate public policy, but I can't be a liberal because I also favor taxing capital gains at a lower rate than ordinary income.

That's why it's better to talk about ideas and facts. Labels only lead to prejudice and hatred, or worse.

It would be easy to say the Neil Cavuto is an ass; nobody here would disagree. I would rather say that he has destroyed his credibility by repeatedly saying things as fact that I know are not true.
 
adric22 said:
And.. I've said it 100 times, so might as well make it 101. They need to get away from the environmental advertising. That only appeals to a small segment and alienates quite a few potential customers.
+102

TomT said:
... The bottom line is that we seriously need a viable third party in this country!
I’d be happy with a viable FIRST party!
 
Back
Top