Did not deliver the range advertised

[elmobob]

The Leaf is like a really hot girl who's got a great job and smart and nice except has a small niggling little habit to drown puppies. I mean, that's just her thing. If you can overlook that, she's awesome. Probably you can't, though. The Leaf's puppy murdering is its despicable cold weather behaviors

:lol: you sir had me laughing out loud to tears in a quiet elevator full of people when I read this today, I couldn't hold it in. I like your humor. :lol:

 

[BTaylor]

False advertising in my opinion. I bought a 2011 Leaf in 2011 when Nissan was advertising 100 mile range. Now my range is 40 miles if I am lucky. I can't even get to and from my work which is 47 miles round trip. I never would have bought this car if I would have known the true range!

Nissan won't make any repairs. I have 10 out of 12 capacity bars on the battery indicator. Nissan says they will have take corrective measures if the capacity bar is 8 or less.

 

[DougWantsALeaf]

At 10 bars you can't make 47 miles? How cold is it and how fast are you driving?

 

[smkettner]

I have been 2 bars down for some time and drove 55 miles today with 3 remaining on GOM. Mostly 60mph and CC in mild weather.
I agree with lower than expected range but 40 seems extreme conditions.

 

[bowthom]

Hello,
Maybe so BUT........... My wife's commute is 43 miles round trip all freeway and it's 35* outside. She needs heat to defrost the windows then parks at work (no charging available). When she gets off work the car will have lost 1 to 2 bars and she has to defog before leaving, the GOM now says 25 miles. She only has 21.5 miles to go but the car has --- showing when she arrives home. Not being comfortable driving on those invisible electrons she would rather take the Prius, not have to worry (range anxiety) and have unlimited heat.

Yeah I know, she could always stop for a little boost at a DCQC but the only one is a Blink which is online 50% of the time and cost $5 which is more than the cost of fuel in the Prius.

 

[cwerdna]

Well the fact that the original poster joined at 1:47, posted at 1:47 and then has not been back to this site since 1:53 on January 29th should be a clue as to his intentions.

Yep. Starts with t...

False advertising in my opinion. I bought a 2011 Leaf in 2011 when Nissan was advertising 100 mile range. Now my range is 40 miles if I am lucky. I can't even get to and from my work which is 47 miles round trip. I never would have bought this car if I would have known the true range!

Nissan won't make any repairs. I have 10 out of 12 capacity bars on the battery indicator. Nissan says they will have take corrective measures if the capacity bar is 8 or less.

At 10 bars you can't make 47 miles? How cold is it and how fast are you driving?

BTaylor, please answer http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=275421#p275421" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; in a reply in this thread.

Also, can you update your location info via User Control Panel (near top) > Profile (left side)? That way, we don't need to ask in future posts/threads or do sleuthing to deduce it.

 

[elmobob]

False advertising in my opinion. I bought a 2011 Leaf in 2011 when Nissan was advertising 100 mile range. Now my range is 40 miles if I am lucky. I can't even get to and from my work which is 47 miles round trip. I never would have bought this car if I would have known the true range!

Nissan won't make any repairs. I have 10 out of 12 capacity bars on the battery indicator. Nissan says they will have take corrective measures if the capacity bar is 8 or less.

so BTaylor you are an early nissan leaf owner since 2011 but become a member of the mynissanleaf forum 3 years later on Mon Feb 10, 2014 7:33 pm to the go ahead and post 8 minutes later at 7:41 pm that you can only get 40 miles on a charge.. bullcrap. Unless you drive it like you stole it or you where in traffic with the heater blasting there is no way you get only 40 miles.

you're one of them electric car hating trolls.

 

[cwerdna]

False advertising in my opinion. I bought a 2011 Leaf in 2011 when Nissan was advertising 100 mile range. Now my range is 40 miles if I am lucky. I can't even get to and from my work which is 47 miles round trip. I never would have bought this car if I would have known the true range!

Nissan won't make any repairs. I have 10 out of 12 capacity bars on the battery indicator. Nissan says they will have take corrective measures if the capacity bar is 8 or less.

so BTaylor you are an early nissan leaf owner since 2011 but become a member of the mynissanleaf forum 3 years later on Mon Feb 10, 2014 7:33 pm to the go ahead and post 8 minutes later at 7:41 pm that you can only get 40 miles on a charge.. bullcrap. Unless you drive it like you stole it or you where in traffic with the heater blasting there is no way you get only 40 miles.

you're one of them electric car hating trolls.

Hey now.... let him answer how he's determining his range along w/the other questions.

For example, from http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=345969#p345969" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, it seems like that (other) guy was complaining about his range, yet was depending on the GOM and apparently leaving 5 or 6 fuel bars on the table.

 

[EatsShootsandLeafs]

Hello,
Maybe so BUT........... My wife's commute is 43 miles round trip all freeway and it's 35* outside. She needs heat to defrost the windows then parks at work (no charging available). When she gets off work the car will have lost 1 to 2 bars and she has to defog before leaving, the GOM now says 25 miles. She only has 21.5 miles to go but the car has --- showing when she arrives home. Not being comfortable driving on those invisible electrons she would rather take the Prius, not have to worry (range anxiety) and have unlimited heat.

Yeah I know, she could always stop for a little boost at a DCQC but the only one is a Blink which is online 50% of the time and cost $5 which is more than the cost of fuel in the Prius.

That's too low. If remaining range is -- you're absolutely playing with fire.

My wife uses the word "hate" when describing the Leaf now. I make no apologies for its range in the winter--it's awful--but I continue to defend the vehicle overall as a great one, notwithstanding the vile range it gets when the battery is really cold. I'm leaving the EV world soon but I hold out hope it will keep improving and if Nissan comes out with a vehicle with 50-100% more range I'll definitely give it another whirl.

cwerdna your questionnaire is only missing battery temp--how many temp bars there are. I think that is a crucial thing most people are not mentioning. 5 F means nothing outside if it's garage kept, whereas if it's not the difference can be massive. I think my out-door kept Leaf is the reason its range is so much worse than others at similar temps.

 

[BTaylor]

I live in the Orange, California. My commute is to City of Diamond Bar which is a 23.5 mile drive according to Google Maps. When I am on the freeway, which is about 75% of the trip, I drive approximately 70 miles per hour. I usually don't drive with the heater or A/C, except in the summer time when it is a must.

For the the flamers claiming B.S., I suggest you talk to Nissan Tech representative Kimo. He allegedly ran a remote diagnostic of my car. Based upon the diagnostic, which reviews my driving behavior, he stated I should be getting 45 to 51 miles. Anyone can also call the Nissan Stadium of Orange service representative Paul if they wish to verify my statements. Also, please feel free to call Nissan claim representative Jason at 877.664.2738 at extension 457289 and have him reference claim number 13176229.

Obviously, I am not happy that the Nissan service tech says I should be getting 45 to 51 miles range. This is a far cry from the 100 miles Nissan advertised. Plus, I can't even get 45 miles. I would like to see Kimo drive from my house to work and back (47 miles), based upon my experiences I know this would happen.

 

[smkettner]

I live in the Orange, California. My commute is to City of Diamond Bar which is a 23.5 mile drive according to Google Maps. When I am on the freeway, which is about 75% of the trip, I drive approximately 70 miles per hour.

Try cruise control at 60mph. You will only lose 3 minutes.

 

[nosuchthing]

I have been 2 bars down for some time and drove 55 miles today with 3 remaining on GOM. Mostly 60mph and CC in mild weather.

We are exactly where you are...
My wife is really pissed at Nissan about this false everything (orig range/range loss over time).

So she decided to call them up. To talk to some nice man about the range loss. Hilarious. Against my advise, or course.

It was an entertaining whining phone call that quickly went nowhere. As in, range bars? What's that!? I was just reading my paper and sipping my morning espresso.

Well, now she is even more pissed then before...

 

[BTaylor]

I will try cruise control at 60 mph to see the difference. Although, I am likely to get ran over on the California freeways at 60 mph. As an aside, I would never have bought the car if I am limited to 60 mph in order to get useable range.

My wife was the one who was originally really pissed about the car. Now I am extremely pissed based upon the Nissan's handling of the situation.

The Nissan representative for the claim I filed explained Nissan's position is the warranty is only for 9 'bars' or more on the 'capacity indicator'. I went through the warranty book and didn't find anything about the number of bars on the capacity indicator as the trigger to repair or not to repair. There is a lot of reference to "gradual capacity loss". I have no idea what my actual 'capacity loss' really is other than representations by Nissan. What I do know is my loss of range hasn't been gradual. Rather, the loss of range is rapid and shocking. When I first had the car I could easily go to work and back home again with plenty of range left. Impossible now.

According to the Nissan representative there is no warranty for range. So, Nissan won't do anything until the battery bar capacity is below 9 bars.

I told the representative I don't drive on 'capacity bars'. I drive real miles, and right now I can barely get 40 miles. If the car can't get 60% of 100 miles after less than 2 1/2 years, then Nissan should have disclosed this and never have advertised 100 miles range. I certainly wouldn't have bought the car knowing the 100 mile range was pie in the sky, and even if achieved won't last for more than a year or two.

Nissan can claim there is no express warranty for range, and they may be correct. Although, all their estimated ranges set forth in the 2011 Leaf Customer Information and Disclosure Form seems like an argument exists the representations therein are an express warranty. However, there certainly is an implied warranty of merchantability that Nissan cannot get consumers to waive per California Civil Code Section 1792.3 and 1793.

Based upon Nissan's advertisements of a 100 mile range and normal consumer expectations, I should be able to get more than 40 miles range (and more than a supposed 45 to 51 that I should be getting according to tech, Kimo) through normal driving conditions in the area where I live. The number of bars on the battery indicator is totally irrelevant to how a consumer uses the car. What matters is real world driving range.

Furthermore, the digital read outs from the dashboard of how many 'capacity bars' are displayed, or the range indicator don't accurately reflect real world range, so it is concerning Nissan's criteria for warranty work is based upon the 'capacity bars'. The range indicator doesn't come close to reflecting real world range. Plus, I am concerned that Nissan could easily manipulate the read out. When I first brought the car to dealer with my range complaints the dealer said they made a software upgrade, and the range now indicates 80 miles. Sure enough when I got in the car it indicated 80 miles. But, I couldn't get close to 80 in the real world, and didn't notice any improvement any real world driving.

 

[Zythryn]

Did anyone ,that is claiming they were under the impression of a 100 mile range, actually see that on the vehicle info sticker?

I remember hearing that 100 mile range tossed around by marketing, but I thought the original range given was 74 or so miles and is now 84?

 

[nosuchthing]

@BTaylor: Well put...

We seriously need a real class action. Don't we?

 

[N1ghtrider]

Count me out of the class action. I get 100 miles per charge every time I try (16 or so times to date).

 

[uwskier20]

Count me out of the class action. I get 100 miles per charge every time I try (16 or so times to date).

I challenge you to try maintaining that claim after two or so years of ownership, esquire. :twisted: :lol:

 

[smkettner]

Btaylor, I agree on all points. 60 mph is barely tolerable at times until this car can be traded off.
I hope you find some fellow 60 mph cars to hang with.
Too many trade offs to eke out some extra range to keep it viable.

 

[BTaylor]

I am not so sure a class action would help those with severally restricted range. The proposed class action settlement filed in Los Angeles Federal Court will severely harm consumers if approved, and limit Nissan's liability exposure in my opinion. The vast majority of people don't take any action when they receive class action notices and are automatically opted into the class by default. The plaintiffs' attorney's for the class have no incentive to get an equitable remedy for consumers. Their incentive is to get an easy cash settlement so they can garner huge legal fees for little work. They actually have a financial incentive to agree to any non-cash terms put out by Nissan in settlement as long as there is also cash involved, so plaintiffs' attorney's can get a percentage of the cash. Based upon the way the monetary incentives are arranged in a class action lawsuit Nissan's attorneys could conceivable put consumers in a worse position by getting plaintiffs' attorney to agree to a settlement that narrowly defines or limits consumers remedies in exchange for cash. Plus, judges don't have any incentive to make sure consumers are protected. Judges are under pressure to clear their docket. So, they are more than happy to approve a settlement when a plaintiff attorney and defendant attorney agree to terms. In fact, I suspect the only reason why there already isn't a class action settlement is because a 9th circuit court of appeals judge is a leaf owner and filed a written objection to the settlement with the district court that is under his appeals circuit.

I am not sure what the best remedy is. One idea would be to develop a form small claims complaint for consumers to use against Nissan for restricted range claims. Make the form complaint easy to use, so anyone can cut and past with a word processor and then file the small claims action. In California, attorneys can not represent parties in small claims, so the consumer would be on a more equal footing and not up against Nissan's high paid lawyers. Additionally, the costs for small claims actions for the consumer is very small, and they are quick and easy trials. Small claims actions are limited to $10,000 in damages in California, but I doubt there will be many persons who sustain more than $10,000 in damages.

The idea would be to flood Nissan with small claims actions. There is a chance a lot of the small claims actions would end up in default judgements in favor of the consumer if Nissan isn't apply to respond to all the small claims actions. At the very least, it would weigh in as an additional cost on Nissan's cost benefit analysis on whether to offer repairs to consumers with restricted range.

In my opinion, the position Nissan is currently taking is going to hurt them more than if they just honored repairs for restricted range. Nissan made a calculated gamble in putting a lot of money and effort into an electric car with batteries that do not contain cooling like its competitors. I admire the courage and risk taking. However, they failed on the risk taking. Nissan put out a product that doesn't meet their representations or consumer expectations. I believe they should pay the monetary costs to make the consumers whole now, because I think the monetary costs to as a result of the damage to their brand reputation will be much larger in the long run. I for one will never buy another Nissan or Infinity, and am advising everyone I know to do the same.

 

[Metalman]

Did anyone ,that is claiming they were under the impression of a 100 mile range, actually see that on the vehicle info sticker?

I signed the little booklet that very clearly explained the expected range in different conditions such as cold and using heat. The same diagram was online, but I can't find it now. Before I bought the car I thought the diagram made it very clear what to expect and always felt afterward that is was a good description of the expected range. Over 35,000 miles all capacity bars showing...very pleased.