Cold in Colorado!

[kmp647]

What I have noticed is even with a charge end time set of 5am the pack ends up charged by 2-3 am at latest

Guess it is being conservative

I have end time set only

I could set start time at midnight and end at 5am

Less time sitting around at 100%

I am mostly charging on L2 outside at night

 

[evnow]

A)To that end, because 110 is so darn slow, I know that when I plug in at night around 6pm with a couple bars left, if I decide to leave the house at 7AM, I am going to have 11 bars in the morning and be around a 90% charge. If I decide to leave a couple hours later, at 9 or 10am, the car will still be just nearing a 100% charge. My car will never actually hit 100% this winter, or if it does, only for moments. If I decide to stay home, I just flick the car off at 9 or 10 AM. Additionally, if for some reason I do forget, the car is now at 100% during the warmenst part of the day.

This sounds like a solid argument.

B) Battery temperature management. This is the part I am not really sure of the benefit...so any thoughts from people smarter than I on the subject would be great.

My thinking is that overnight (which is both the coldest and has the potential for the longest high charge dormant period for the car), when on a 110/trickle, the battery is active throughout the entire night...meaning it has a much higher temperature than it would if its just sitting there at 20F, thereby negating the extreme overnight cold...also the car stays at its lowest potential charge level at every point of the night, right up until it gets into the sweet spot (80-100%)I need, just as I leave in the morning.

Not sure about that part - I'm going to do some checks. Trickle charge probably won't do much to warm up the battery. But in general you are doing the right thing by having the 100% charge only for short period and then you drain it by driving.

Here is one thing to keep in mind - you probably know this already - but for the benefit of others.

At every temperature there is a max voltage beyond which some battery damage will occur. Let us say we charge the battery to 100% (whatever that actually means in Leaf) when the battery is at a nice toasty temperature of 70 F. But after that the battery temperature goes down - and this could be a problem - since now the battery voltage may be too high for that lower temperature leading to battery damage. So, charging the battery at a higher temperature but letting it sit at 100% charge in much lower temperature should be avoided.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

one thing i noticed today with temps hovering around 32º is that i only had 4 regen circles available even though i was at 6 white bars. previously i had all the regen circles available at 8 white bars.

 

[kmp647]

my leaf sat all day thursday at 50% charge, I drove the ice to work

Last night the timer kicked in (set to end time only at 5am end time)

at 2:43am the car texted me indicating charge full

it was 25F overnight and the car was outside during the charge
the pre-heat was set to 5am and worked nicely , heavy frost overnight and the windows were clear and interior warm and dry

4 bars on the batt temp gauge

32 mile highway commute high 65-70 for 20 of the 32 miles used 6 bars
some heat on most of the way. set to auto 68F
plugged into to trickle when I got to work!

that was after tagging a deer at 70mph ! minor damage to the lower part of the frt bmpr, knocked out the rf fog lamp

I was replacing those anyway
BTW if you hit a deer put on some rubber gloves before you go checking out the damage
or you may smell very interesting to the local buck population

 

[EdmondLeaf]

So winter charging to 80% is even more important than during summer?

kmp647 sorry about your incident. There are plenty of deer here and hard to predict what they will do.

 

[dgpcolorado]

one thing i noticed today with temps hovering around 32º is that i only had 4 regen circles available even though i was at 6 white bars. previously i had all the regen circles available at 8 white bars.

This is similar to what abasile has reported. Prior to these reports I hadn't considered the possibility of less or no regen in cold weather. It would be disappointing to have to throw away potential energy when descending steep hills in winter. I might as well use the heater when going down hills...

I'm glad I garage my cars and the garage rarely drops below freezing (because the furnace is located there).

 

[TonyWilliams]

(Without dropping into neutral - I may be overly cautious, but I see this practice as somewhat unsafe. I love feathering -both slow and go pedals - but hope to keep the car always in gear: D/ECO.).....

For the physics lovers: Might my range be slightly better at our Mile-High Altitude? (It works for Kickers, right?) Any idea how much better - as a % of range?

Neutral is not "dangerous", since the brakes are designed to handle 100% of the braking without regeneration when the battery is at 100%. Neutral does not disconnect a gear set.... it removes power from the traction motor. The so-called "feathering", if successful, does exactly the same thing. Putting the gear selector in N is 100% successful in "feathering" ;-)

I use 1.5% increase in range (from reduced aerodynamic drag) for each 1000 feet/300meters in air density above sea level. Drag from rolling resistance obviously is not affected.

 

[mumbasa]

Can anybody comment on the Schneider charging station that my local Home Depot sells? My electrical was upgraded by putting in air conditioning this summer. AV still wanted to charge me their standard installation of $1,095.56 to put in a couple of screws and plug in the charging station. Not going to happen.
Thanks in advance for your input,
John

 

[kmp647]

It's an indoor only unit

Other than that it's a good unit

 

[AmpUpCO]

Neutral is not "dangerous", since the brakes are designed to handle 100% of the braking without regeneration when the battery is at 100%. Neutral does not disconnect a gear set.... it removes power from the traction motor. The so-called "feathering", if successful, does exactly the same thing. Putting the gear selector in N is 100% successful in "feathering" ;-)

Tony, do you - as some other Posters - drop into neutral by putting the shifter in reverse? I know I'm ignorant to the technology, but the idea of executing this maneuver goes against all I've been taught and all that is holy.

The first time I attempt this move, I know I'll cross myself and hold my breath before moving the shifter!!

I currently drive a stick, so coasting in neutral isn't a foriegn concept for me. I have read that there is some 2-3 second delay in moving from D/ECO to neutral the "standard" way. But to quickly reach neutral, one should - at speed - throw the shifter into reverse.

When you say, "...Neutral does not disconnect a gear set..." do you mean that if I press the accelerator while in neutral the motor will automatically engage? Or is it still necessary to re-engage the motor by moving the shifter back into drive?

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

i am now regretting one major omission in my data collecting and that is the temps of the storage area and it violates my #1 rule. collect the data whether you need it or not because you never know when you will need it!@!

but... i have an excuse. last year i lived in much small two story house with garage that stayed relatively warm in winter. temps never went below probably 50-55º. the afternoon sun set on it, etc.

this year, i am living in single story rambler and the garage pretty much is only maybe 10 º above ambient OAT. its cold enough that i feel confident storing items that require refrigeration out there.

i am wondering what impact that has on my charging efficiency and stored range.

also, the one thing i noticed is pre heat is a "hidden" charge figure or at least that is my prelim observation. (with car never being below 55, i always wondered why anyone would want to preheat...now i know why)

the power used to pre heat is not applied to the energy usage on the car. i notice this immediately so i have been testing it. i got out, turn on car long enough to check GOM (ya, this story is already getting shaky i know) . then turn off car. go in, turn on pre heat. run it 8-10 minutes (i tested it and car is putting out heat at a good pace after 5 minutes. it does not take long at that point to warm it up)

but i am losing 3-4 miles off the GOM doing this but its not being reflected on the miles/kw screen which artificially lowers my charge efficiency #'s.

 

[SanDust]

the power used to pre heat is not applied to the energy usage on the car.

Assuming the car is plugged in, doesn't the power for pre-heating come from the EVSE? In this case the power needed to pre-heat would not come from the battery and would therefore properly not affect the energy usage of the car.

 

[planet4ever]

When you say, "...Neutral does not disconnect a gear set..." do you mean that if I press the accelerator while in neutral the motor will automatically engage? Or is it still necessary to re-engage the motor by moving the shifter back into drive?

If you press the accelerator while in neutral, nothing happens. Nothing! That's because, at least effectively, it is the accelerator which is disengaged. The computer is ignoring all "throttle" signals.

The motor, on the other hand, is connected to the wheels at all times. If you are moving and in neutral, the motor is spinning; it just isn't using or generating any electricity.

Ray

 

[Herm]

The motor is always connected to the wheels, there is no clutch or torque converter of any kind..

 

[dgpcolorado]

the power used to pre heat is not applied to the energy usage on the car.

Assuming the car is plugged in, doesn't the power for pre-heating come from the EVSE? In this case the power needed to pre-heat would not come from the battery and would therefore properly not affect the energy usage of the car.

That's one way to look at it. My view is that heating the car, whether from the battery pack or the wall, is part of the energy needed to operate the car. In my opinion the most important number would be the electricity used "at the wall" divided by the miles traveled. That number would include losses during charging, as well as HVAC use.

Nevertheless, I realize that, for range purposes, the energy used solely from the battery pack is what is important. For determining operating expenses, the total electricity used at the wall would seem to be the relevant figure.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Amen

 

[SanDust]

Here is my two main reasons for always charging 110 overnight in the winter:
...
Thoughts? (Again, I'm not making a case here for 'is L1 better than L2 overall', just that I think it is situationally better during periods of extreme cold...and possibly is better when overnight charges close to 100% are required)

This doesn't make much sense. If you use Level II and set the timer to start charging at 3:00 AM then, before charging starts, the car will be sitting in 20F with a low SOC. Most likely the battery will still retain some heat. Even if it doesn't that won't hurt anything. Starting at 3:00 AM the battery starts charging and at 7:00 AM or so it will be fully charged and also warm, and it should stay warm until you use it. I don't see any issues at all. Better to use the more efficient charging.

Cold is only a factor in two situations. One is if the battery freezes and one is if you get over-voltage during charging. Freezing shouldn't an issue because the temp for this is -14F for at least a few days (the cold weather package addresses this). Charging shouldn't be an issue because the charger (not the EVSE) should handle that if it's a problem, which it probably isn't given the chemistry and amount of the top end which is reserved even at a "100%" charge.

 

[themotorman]

I live in Santa Barbara and we have had a few nights down to 30.. the result on range is very significant. From about 100 miles ( 100% charge ) to about 75 . Reality is that I can just make a 70 mile round trip on almost flat freeway. Did come back one day with only ------ on the miles left display. It seems that when the ------- comes on ( no miles indicating ) I have about 5-10 miles left. I would like to know how useful this is because I like to make the 70 trip!!
To the guys in Colorado... why don't you buy a fast charger and put it in downtown? N9ssan has them for under $10,000 ! I'd like to put one in Ventura if I could find a friendly gas station for the location.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

around here the same trips i did at 60-65 in Summer i now do at 55-60 so i still make it. just a bit colder and slower is all, but Winter is not stopping me from going where i need to go.

we rarely if ever take the Prius. its pretty much a commute only car.

as far as why i want the car to acknowledge preheat energy even if it is coming from the wall is because that power is still coming thru my meter and i am still paying for it and its providing me inaccurate information for my charging efficiencies.

i guess i have to be glad that i got a good baseline on that efficiency during summer where i never pre cooled.

 

[SanDust]

I have no doubt that cold temperature cuts range but surprisingly I haven't noticed one. It may be there but it's not large enough to make an impression without paying more attention than I'm paying.