Chevrolet Spark EV

[Randy]

Thanks, Scott...

I went to the Spark EV web page to poke around, and didn't see anything about the availability of the DC Fast Charge option via the Combo Connector. So I used their chat function to ask one of their operators about it...Here is the text....

09:38:30 Brandon: Hello! Thank you for contacting Chevrolet. My name is Brandon , how may I help you today?

09:39:22 Customer: Hello, I'm interested in a Spark EV with the DC Fast Charge option using the Combo Connector. But when I go through the "Build your Spark" configuration website, I don't see an option for the fast charging. Do you know when that will be available?

09:40:07 Brandon: Thank you for your question. Just a moment please.

09:43:31 Brandon: Thank you for waiting. Based on my resources, it looks like the DC Fast Charge option will be produced in the 4th Qtr of 2013. They should be at Dealers in early 2014.

09:43:46 Customer: Okay, thanks...

 

[evnow]

Does anyone know how they are selling ? Haven't seen anyone post saying they are actually buying one - just GM fans telling us how it is a Leaf killer and how lots of other people will buy it.

 

[scottf200]

09:43:31 Brandon: Thank you for waiting. Based on my resources, it looks like the DC Fast Charge option will be produced in the 4th Qtr of 2013. They should be at Dealers in early 2014.

An insideEVs article stated that BMW would be the first. BMW had a press release here: http://insideevs.com/gm-and-bmw-join-forces-to-complete-testing-on-dc-combo-fast-charge-stations-wvideo/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; From BMW release: "DC Fast Charge is expected to be available when the BMW i3 launches in the US [on November 16th]."

From article:

Of interest, the Spark EV which was to be the first production electric car to be introduced to accept the Combo DC Fast Charge, has had that option delayed until later this year, and now the i3 looks to take that honor as the BMW will have that functionality from day one. The BMW i3 is slated to first go on sale on November 16th, while the Spark EV priced at $27,495, is just now landing at California Chevy dealers with only the 120/240 charging available to purchase. GM says that the 'DC Fast Charge option is expected to be available a few months after the Spark EV launches.'

The BMW sales and use of the Range EXtender may be a quite interesting.

EVNow: As a 'large' family car the LEAF is way different and better than a Spark EV. They could be compared as commuter cars, tho. Not sure who said/things the Spark is a LEAF killer. LEAF has too much production capabilities and all state sales. It will outsell the Spark EV easily even with the battery problems.

 

[GRA]

Does anyone know how they are selling ? Haven't seen anyone post saying they are actually buying one - just GM fans telling us how it is a Leaf killer and how lots of other people will buy it.

Judging by the number of gas Sparks I see around here (averaging just under 1/day, which is more than the average for the Leaf or Volt, and the Spark's only been available since last year), and with the SPARK EV being a better car than the gas version in all but range (and price), I'd expect them to sell quite well here. I certainly see far more Sparks than I do Versas. We also have lots of Minis and the Fiat 500 is doing well also, so I expect the 500e will be welcomed. Unlike the 500, the Spark has a back seat usable for adults, and if you've got kids the rear doors would be a big help. The biggest issue will be the area's aversion to U.S. brand cars, but judging by the number of gas Sparks, Cruzes, Focus and Fusions I see now, that shouldn't be a major problem. Five years ago, a U.S. brand car was very rare here (trucks/SUVs were a different matter).

 

[jhm614]

Does anyone know how they are selling ? Haven't seen anyone post saying they are actually buying one - just GM fans telling us how it is a Leaf killer and how lots of other people will buy it.

Inside Evs has an article on the Spark EVs first months sales : http://insideevs.com/chevrolet-spark-ev-finally-arrives-first-27-sold-in-june/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Small first month but it slots neatly in between the Leaf's and Smart EDs first month.
It will be interesting to see how the July numbers compare. I'm assuming this is a slow roll out but you never know. Most of the reviews have been great. The only negatives I've seen mentioned are the torque steer under hard acceleration and the smaller size.

 

[evnow]

Inside Evs has an article on the Spark EVs first months sales : http://insideevs.com/chevrolet-spark-ev-finally-arrives-first-27-sold-in-june/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Small first month but it slots neatly in between the Leaf's and Smart EDs first month.

I like a lot of inside ev articles - not this one. That was just fluff. How is it doing in July - is there enough inventory ?

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

When I was getting the volt there was a non ev spark in the showroom. The ev version must be totally different because otherwise I don't know why anyone would consider this car.

 

[jhm614]

How is it doing in July - is there enough inventory ?

Based on Cars.com, I'm going to say "No, there is not enough inventory." Right now they are showing:
87 Spark EV 2,427 Leafs and 7,538 Volts

I'm assuming that means that 1) Chevy basically sold every one they made and 2) They are severely inventory limited. These are being built in Korea, right? Any idea on how to tell how many have been produced? (And I wonder if a bunch of crazy Spark fans are pooling their dough to fly a helicopter over the Port of LA to try determine which ships have their cars and how many there are.... )

 

[siai]

I don't think anyone could consider the Spark as a LEAF "killer" as it isn't the same class of car. If anything it is a I-MiEV killer as the two are more of a equivalent vehicle. However, I think the I-MiEV is already dead as there is no 2013 model in the US and a 2014 is only hinted at. Mitsubishi says they are standing behind the I-MiEV and will continue to build and sell it. Thats sort of like the President saying he is standing behind a member of his administration whose in trouble and has full faith in him and how well he is doing his job----the day before he gives the guy the axe.

 

[cwerdna]

Personally, after digging a few times in the past, I'm not so convinced that the cars.com # of cars values are actually accurate.

 

[nosuchthing]

Novato Chevrolet told me that Sparks are in port, (presumably LA) and will be up here in 2 weeks. I'm considering leasing one. Gotta drive it, though.

 

[GRA]

I don't think anyone could consider the Spark as a LEAF "killer" as it isn't the same class of car. If anything it is a I-MiEV killer as the two are more of a equivalent vehicle. However, I think the I-MiEV is already dead as there is no 2013 model in the US and a 2014 is only hinted at. Mitsubishi says they are standing behind the I-MiEV and will continue to build and sell it. Thats sort of like the President saying he is standing behind a member of his administration whose in trouble and has full faith in him and how well he is doing his job----the day before he gives the guy the axe.

The gas Spark has more i-like performance, the Spark EV is a whole other ballgame. I think its primary competition will be the 500e and the Fit EV, although the latter two are definitely just compliance cars, and the Spark doesn't seem like it's intended to be. I do think it will take some sales from the LEAF, for people who want five doors but don't need a car the LEAF's size, and who appreciate the better acceleration and possibly better handling. Edit: Also, if you plan on QC'ing frequently once they're available, then I'd expect the Spark to have a definite advantage over the Leaf owing to its TMS. I'd certainly never buy a BEV with QC without TMS.

I do expect that Spark EV sales will be slower than they could otherwise be for the rest of the year, as people who want the option will hold off until the CCS is available, regardless of whether or not there are any chargers in their area now (or likely to be). Just as many LEAF owners got the CHAdeMo option even if they've never had a chance to use it - many people will want CCS as insurance, to avoid the possibility of immediate obsolescence if CCS chargers appear in their area.

 

[TonyWilliams]

I think its primary competition will be the 500e and the Fit EV, although the latter two are definitely just compliance cars, and the Spark doesn't seem like it's intended to be. I do think it will take some sales from the LEAF, for people who want five doors but don't need a car the LEAF's size, and who appreciate the better acceleration and possibly better handling.

Oh, they want you to absolutely believe that... CARB, too !!!

We will see, no doubt.

 

[GRA]

ABG drive and review:

http://www.autoblog.com/2013/07/22/2014-chevrolet-spark-ev-review-first-drive-video/#continued" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[qwk]

... the numbers suggest just how superior the Spark's drive train is.

:lol:
Maybe compared to a blender or washmachine.

 

[GRA]

Some early range reports from owners:

http://www.mychevysparkev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3428" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

and here:

http://www.mychevysparkev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3414" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

and at least one early return (and change to a Leaf) when the buyer suddenly became aware that the CCS isn't yet available on the car, and (presumably) can't be retrofitted:

http://www.mychevysparkev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3408" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Not totally clear whether this was a dealer salesperson error or a misunderstanding on the part of the customer, but such matters clearly need to be addressed soonest, or Chevy is going to have a lot of unhappy customers. The customer who gave back his Spark did say that he preferred it to the Leaf and the Spark got better range (2012 Leaf though) and better m/kWh, and they might well get another Spark when CCS is available.

BTW, in another topic one owner corrects another who said that the rear seats don't fold down flat. They do (photo included) if you extend the headrests to clear the seat bench. It's not clear, but if the front seats were all the way back you might need to remove the headrests completely, although the owner who did extend them said he was 6'0" and didn't need to - http://www.mychevysparkev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3419" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[DaveEV]

Given that drag is about 2X more important than mass on the City Cycle, looking at the numbers a reasonable expectation would be that the Leaf should be roughly 20% more efficient on the City Cycle. But the numbers show that it's 20% LESS efficient. Since the swing can only be accounted for by drive train efficiency, the numbers suggest just how superior the Spark's drive train is.

Ignoring the fact that you are not comparing the same efficiency numbers as Stoaty pointed out, how do you figure that the LEAF should be 20% more efficient than the Spark EV on the city cycle?

 

[TonyWilliams]

My reply to the driver who turned in his Spark EV because it had no Frankenplug:

The "Combined Charge System" (CCS) DC quick charge (that I refer to as "Frankenplug" for the USA version) planned for the Spark EV is not currently available on the car, nor is it currently possible to "upgrade" the car to use Frankenplug, or ANY OTHER DC CHARGER.

There are currently EXACTLY zero operational public USA specification Frankenplug stations in the world. There are currently EXACTLY zero publically held EV's that could use the non existent chargers. There is one in the ground between Phoenix and Tucson that is broken. One was announced for New York somewhere. There are 200 planned (along side CHAdeMO chargers) for California in four years under a deal with NRG/EVgo, however that deal requires two manufacturers of Frankenplugs (requirement met) and at least one available vehicle (not met yet).

The "other" car to get the Frankeplug in the USA is the BMW i3. It was announced yesterday to not be available in the USA/Canada until "second quarter 2014", which means by July 1, 2014. About a year away. This car will offer a BMW 650cc gasoline motorcycle engine as a "range extender" as an option in addition to the Frankenplug.

The Chevy Spark EV is left holding the bag as likely the only Frankenplug car for the next year, sold in extremely low volume in two states, currently without any DC charging on the car, nor are there public stations (and no demand to push for public stations).

There will likely be several California Air Resources Board (CARB) Zero Emission Vehicle (ZEV) compliance cars offered in the coming two years with the Frankenplug, selling a few hundred to a thousand cars total only in California through 2015-2017 model years; for example, the Volkswagon eGolf and Mercedes B Class EV.

States adopting CARB include Arizona (2012 model year), Connecticut, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New Mexico (2011 model year), New York, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Vermont, and Washington, as well as the District of Columbia. Such states are frequently referred to as "CARB states" in automotive discussions because the regulations are defined by the California Air Resources Board.

The Chevrolet Spark EV is a California ZEV compliance car, and is also being sold in the CARB-ZEV state of Oregon. GM must sell this car for model years 2012-2014 to comply with 0.79% total sales of ZEV's in California. The six "Very Large Manufacturers" who must comply for 2012-2014 are:

1. GM - Spark EV (the only current Frankenplug compliance car)

2. Ford - Focus EV (no DC charger of any kind)

3. Fiat/Chrysler - Fiat 500e (no DC charger of any kind)

4. Toyota - Rav4 EV (2600 to be built, no DC charger of any kind)

5. Nissan - LEAF (purpose built, not a conversion, 70,000 sold worldwide, CHAdeMO worldwide)

6. Honda - Fit EV (1100 to be built, no DC charger of any kind in USA, CHAdeMO in Japan)

The Frankenplug sold here is unique to the USA. The CCS version in Europe is based on the Mennekes plug that uses three phase AC power. Obviously, the Europe CCS/Mennekes and SAE (USA) CCS "Frankeplug" are not interchangable. Tesla will use a modified Mennekes plug in Europe on their Model S cars sold there.


The Actual Working, Currently Installed DC Charging Standards:

Tesla is installing a "Supercharger" DC quick charge network throughout the USA and Canada with 500 - 1000 charging stalls at 100-200 sites. This is a $50 million project. The specifications call for 400 volts at up to 300 amps, for 120kW DC power. These are proprietary to Telsa vehicles and manufacturers who license their technology.

Currently, there are no manufacturers except Tesla, however Daimler (Mercedes Benz) is rumored to be considering it. That means that you can charge at any of the sites "for free, forever". The $1500-$2000 license to use the stations will be rolled into the cost of the car.

Tesla is delivering 400-500 cars per week worldwide. In addition, Tesla has announced that they will offer a CHAdeMO adapter to be used with their cars. There has been no notice of a Frankenplug adapter, however, should Frankenplug stations actually get built, the Supercharger network is "100% compatible".


The Worldwide Common DC Charging Standard, CHAdeMO:

This DC charge standard has approximately 3000 stations around the world, with about 200 in the USA, 900 in Europe, and the rest in Japan. It is the same standard everywhere, without regional changes. The same plug works in Tokyo and Estonia.

It is specified to be 100kW (500 volts x 200 amps), however the current limit is 62.5kW (125 amps). A Nissan LEAF can use 48kW (and the Chevy Spark will be similar at around 45kW with Frankenplug, no matter what the breathless salesman or press releases might say).

In addition to the Nissan LEAF with 70,000 cars worldwide, the Mitsubishi iMiev and clones Peugeot ion and Citroën C-Zero have sold 30,000 worldwide and also use CHAdeMO. The upcoming Kia Soul EV with use CHAdeMO.

Nissan is installing up to 100 CHAdeMO stations in the USA, in addition to those from Ecotality/Blink, AeroVironment, and many others. The "West Coast Electric Highway" is exclusively CHAdeMO.


Epilogue:

There is not likely to be a low cost CHAdeMO to Frankenplug adaptor that you can use in your Spark EV. There definitely won't be European CCS/Menekkes or a Tesla adaptor.

I hope this helps in your buying decisions. It pains me to think how many folks might buy a Spark or other Frankenplug vehicle and have NO IDEA what they really bought.

My advice is to not count on many Frankenplug stations for a LONG time. My opinion is that neither GM, nor BMW will spend the money that Nissan and Tesla are spending. Public money has thus far all been spent on CHAdeMO and J1772 AC charging. There's not any momentum for yet another new standard.

I'm confident that the Spark EV will be a fine car for driving around town, but I can tell you after 35,000 miles with two LEAF's, charging at 3.3kW (like Spark and Volt/Ampera have) on J1772 in public is for the birds!!!

Welcome to gasoline free driving!!!

 

[mkjayakumar]

Thanks Tony. That was pretty detailed, and before I read your note I was thinking CCS meant 'Cruise Control System' !!

 

[dm33]

Awesome post Tony.
That should be a blog post somewhere that deserves to be found when searching this topic. Best and most comprehensive post I've seen on this subject.