Chevrolet Spark EV

[SanDust]

EPA range of Spark - 82 miles
EPA range of Leaf charged to 100% - 84 miles

They did manage to get more range per kWh. The Spark only has a 21 kWh pack. If the Leaf were as efficient as the Spark it would be getting close to the "magic" 100 miles of range we were promised.

 

[evnow]

EPA range of Spark - 82 miles
EPA range of Leaf charged to 100% - 84 miles

They did manage to get more range per kWh. The Spark only has a 21 kWh pack. If the Leaf were as efficient as the Spark it would be getting close to the "magic" 100 miles of range we were promised.

I guess Spark is much smaller & lighter ?

 

[TonyWilliams]

EPA range of Spark - 82 miles
EPA range of Leaf charged to 100% - 84 miles

They did manage to get more range per kWh. The Spark only has a 21 kWh pack. If the Leaf were as efficient as the Spark it would be getting close to the "magic" 100 miles of range we were promised.

The Spark is physically smaller (less "flat plate area" with similar Cd) and at least 300 pounds lighter. What's more "efficient" to you is just a teeny tiny car to others.

 

[charlestonleafer]

At least GM put a reasonable price on it. At the same price as a base model Leaf, I think it will definitely offer some competition.

 

[TonyWilliams]

At least GM put a reasonable price on it. At the same price as a base model Leaf, I think it will definitely offer some competition.

They had to... because of the LEAF, Fit EV, Fiat 500e, Smart ED, etc. They must sell at least 2500 of these through 2014 in California.

 

[jhm614]

At least GM put a reasonable price on it. At the same price as a base model Leaf, I think it will definitely offer some competition.

They had to... because of the LEAF, Fit EV, Fiat 500e, Smart ED, etc. They must sell at least 2500 of these through 2014 in California.

Have we determined if the Spark is just a compliance car? Are they producing these at a loss (not counting the R&D). Will they eventual roll these out to 50 states?

 

[scottf200]

Have we determined if the Spark is just a compliance car? Are they producing these at a loss (not counting the R&D). Will they eventual roll these out to 50 states?

GM is going to sell them in Europe:
http://media.chevroleteurope.com/content/media/intl/en/chevrolet/vehicles/spark-ev/2014.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1082303_2014-chevrolet-spark-ev-electric-car-now-europe-gets-it-too" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Also Ford is making the FFE in Germany.
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1084877_ford-focus-electric-production-began-in-germany-last-week" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.freep.com/article/20130612/BUSINESS0102/306120026/Ford-Focus-Electric-C-Max-Germany-Michigan-Assembley-auto" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I was recently in Paris. These places that have high gas prices don't mind much smaller cars.

 

[jhm614]

Will they eventual roll these out to 50 states?

GM is going to sell them in Europe:
http://media.chevroleteurope.com/content/media/intl/en/chevrolet/vehicles/spark-ev/2014.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1082303_2014-chevrolet-spark-ev-electric-car-now-europe-gets-it-too" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I was recently in Paris. These places that have high gas prices don't mind much smaller cars.

Nice! Maybe this will eventually be an option in Texas. <insert obligatory Paris, Texas joke here>

 

[TonyWilliams]

At least GM put a reasonable price on it. At the same price as a base model Leaf, I think it will definitely offer some competition.

They had to... because of the LEAF, Fit EV, Fiat 500e, Smart ED, etc. They must sell at least 2500 of these through 2014 in California.

Have we determined if the Spark is just a compliance car? Are they producing these at a loss (not counting the R&D). Will they eventual roll these out to 50 states?

Well, is it a compliance car, but we don't know if it's "just" compliance until they actually sell some in places besides California, and not just to give the impression they are not "just".

There's a huge incentive for them to appear to be selling the car in places besides California, which is why I assume the other markets are a sham. The MUST either sell them in California for compliance, or buy ZEV credits from Nissan, Tesla, et al, plus they are WAY late to the game. The current phase of compliance is 2012-2014 model years.

 

[jhm614]

Well, is it a compliance car, but we don't know if it's "just" compliance until they actually sell some in places besides California, and not just to give the impression they are not "just".

There's a huge incentive for them to appear to be selling the car in places besides California, which is why I assume the other markets are a sham.

I suppose the sales volume in CA will be a major indicator. If GM constrains sales to only the X,xxx cars they need for compliance, then we will know it was just a compliance car -- and probably losing money ala the FitEV or 500e at the current price.
I don't understand the second part -- what's the incentive for appearing to sell the Spark in other areas?

 

[TonyWilliams]

I don't understand the second part -- what's the incentive for appearing to sell the Spark in other areas?

Part of GM's answer to Nissan, the Frankenplug, requires that GM and their Frankenplug bloc to produce a car that is not determined by CARB to only be strictly compliance.

If GM meets that standard, then public funds can be used (ala NRG/EVgo deal) to install competing Frankenplug stations next to 200 CHAdeMO stations.

Don't worry... GM won't spend a penny on installing them, like Nissan and Tesla are doing. It doesn't look like the BMW i3 will arrive until the end of first quarter 2014 in California, and they are now pushing motorcycle engines with a scary silence on the Frankenplug.

These two companies are locked into Frankenplug now, and it's anybody's guess how that will shake out. I suspect the Mercedes B class EV (Tesla powered like Rav4 EV) and VW eGolf will be strictly future compliance / reasearch vehicles. There's not much other hope on the horizon for Frankenplug, in my not very humble opinion.

Yes, they will show up, and there will be lots of press releases, but it's a stillborn concept in the USA.

 

[evnow]

Since OR is one of the states who have adopted ZEV rules, I hope CARB regulators will not allow GM to hoodwink them.

They should have a better way to determine this - like sales far in excess of ZEV requirements and selling in atleast half a dozen states who are not in ZEV.

 

[SanDust]

The Spark is physically smaller (less "flat plate area" with similar Cd) and at least 300 pounds lighter. What's more "efficient" to you is just a teeny tiny car to others.

That's an opinion which is completely contradicted by the the facts. Let's agree that the Spark EV gets 128 MPGe on the City Cycle and 109 MPGe on the Highway Cycle. By comparison the Leaf gets 106 MPGe on the City Cycle and 93 MPGe on the Highway Cycle.

Now let's look at the mass and aerodynamics (all numbers come from insideevs.com for consistency). The Spark EV weighs 250 pounds less than the Leaf not 300 pounds less. That's a difference of 9%. Turning to the aerodynamics, the Spark EV does not have a Cd anything close to the Leaf. Nissan claims the Leaf has a Cd of .28 while GM says the Cd of the Spark is .326. Turning to the dimensions of the cars, the Spark EV is 3.3" narrower but it's 1.6" higher (69.7" X 61" for the Leaf and 66.4" X 62.6" for the Spark EV). The difference in the frontal area amounts to only 95 square inches. (So much for your idea of the Spark being "tiny teeny"). If you do the multiplication, it turns out that the greater CdA of the Spark is more significant than having an A which is 95 square inches smaller and that the Spark has 14% greater CdA than the Leaf (1355 vs. 1190).

Given that drag is about 2X more important than mass on the City Cycle, looking at the numbers a reasonable expectation would be that the Leaf should be roughly 20% more efficient on the City Cycle. But the numbers show that it's 20% LESS efficient. Since the swing can only be accounted for by drive train efficiency, the numbers suggest just how superior the Spark's drive train is.

You see this even more clearly when you compare the Spark to the Fiat 500e. The Spark weighs nominally more than the 500e and, most importantly, has a larger frontal area and a higher Cd. Despite these disadvantages, it's 5% more efficient on the City Cycle than the 500e AND goes 0-60 MPH in 7.6 seconds rather than 9.1 seconds. That is impressive drive train performance.

 

[Stoaty]

That's an opinion which is completely contradicted by the the facts. Let's agree that the Spark EV gets 128 MPGe on the City Cycle and 109 MPGe on the Highway Cycle. By comparison the Leaf gets 106 MPGe on the City Cycle and 93 MPGe on the Highway Cycle.

Let's stick to the facts. Those numbers are for 2011-2012 Leaf. The 2013 Nissan Leaf gets 129 MPGe in city driving and 102 MPGe on the highway.

 

[scottf200]

Portland State have DC charging? See at 26 sec (40%) then 28 secs (50%). 350v 125 amps.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=BwJkZ3sz2xk#t=23s" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[youtube]www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=BwJkZ3sz2xk#t=23s[/youtube]

 

[TonyWilliams]

Portland State have DC charging? See at 26 sec (40%) then 28 secs (50%). 350v 125 amps.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=BwJkZ3sz2xk#t=23s" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[youtube]www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=BwJkZ3sz2xk#t=23s[/youtube]

Portland State University and Portland Gas Electric have "Electric Avenue". To my knowledge, there is no Frankenplug there.

 

[Randy]

At 23 seconds, they show the charge connector on the car. Unless there's some sort of dust cover, it looks like the Franken pins are blocked or covered.

At 55 seconds, you can see a small (maybe 120v) cord feeding the charger that is taped down with silver duct tape on the ground....No fast charging going on there...

 

[TonyWilliams]

I will add that all the chargers on Portland's Electric Avenue are donated. GM is welcome to donate a Frankenplug charger.

 

[LeftieBiker]

Given that drag is about 2X more important than mass on the City Cycle, looking at the numbers a reasonable expectation would be that the Leaf should be roughly 20% more efficient on the City Cycle.

Isn't the City Cycle the low speed part of the test? If so, you have it backwards, and drag is much less important than mass. Regen efficiency would also be more important than mass in city driving...

 

[scottf200]

At 23 seconds, they show the charge connector on the car. Unless there's some sort of dust cover, it looks like the Franken pins are blocked or covered.

Not sure about that car specifically but there is a flip down cover. Probably more than dust and things like water, snow, etc for those that charge outside.