Chevrolet Bolt & Bolt EUV

[GetOffYourGas]

One target group for EVs should be younger people living in apartments - these are the people most open to change. They need ways to charge - including apartment charging, charging at work and other public places to charge. These would be L2.

There is an energy-neutral (solar panels offset site use) apartment complex about 40 minutes from me that is again offering apartments as they complete the second phase of building. They are basically offering to install a new Clipper Creek L-2 station (amperage ranging from 16 to 30) in a parking space for you if you request it. I'll be looking at the place on Saturday. Here's a link, if anyone is interested:

http://www.netzerovillage.com/

Cool, thanks for sharing that! I may have to check that out next time I pass through Albany.

If it only takes fifteen to twenty minutes to get enough charge to handle daily driving, the wait isn't particularly onerous.

If the average American drives 40 miles/day, and the next generation EV can go 200+ miles on a charge, one would only need a full charge per work week, plus whatever is needed for weekend activities. Charging your car for 15 minutes 2-3x per week isn't so bad.

Then again, how many people will be willing to live like that, compared to spending 5 minutes, once per week to refuel their ICEV? One of the main advantages of an EV is the convenience of home fueling. Take that away, and EVs are a much less compelling.

 

[dgpcolorado]

...Then again, how many people will be willing to live like that, compared to spending 5 minutes, once per week to refuel their ICEV? One of the main advantages of an EV is the convenience of home fueling. Take that away, and EVs are a much less compelling.

While I agree that fueling at home is a big EV advantage, the enhanced performance and driving experience of EVs might be enough for some to put up with the inconvenience of fast charging away from home.

 

[GRA]

...Then again, how many people will be willing to live like that, compared to spending 5 minutes, once per week to refuel their ICEV? One of the main advantages of an EV is the convenience of home fueling. Take that away, and EVs are a much less compelling.

While I agree that fueling at home is a big EV advantage, the enhanced performance and driving experience of EVs might be enough for some to put up with the inconvenience of fast charging away from home.

Very few, I think. There's no question that an ICE's '5 minutes refueling once a week or less often' convenience and capability is much more valuable to me, and I'm more willing to act out of ideological motives than the average person. Given the choice between having to drive to a QC and spend 15-30 minutes there every couple of days, or parking at a public lot 1 block from me and charging L1/L2 every night, I'd opt for the latter, and so I suspect would most people. Of course, unless/until the cost of public L1/L2 is less than that of gas, no one not motivated by ideology is going to switch regardless of how convenient it is.

 

[DNAinaGoodWay]

After 4 years of Leaf, and working where there is free L2, no one of over 1000 coworkers has gotten a BEV. Few people ask about it. No one cares. The general attitude seems to be, why bother? Why bother having to learn something new when what they have now is comfortable and works fine. A 200 mile Bolt or anything else won't matter to them, they have no motivation to change.

 

[LKK]

After 4 years of Leaf, and working where there is free L2, no one of over 1000 coworkers has gotten a BEV. Few people ask about it. No one cares. The general attitude seems to be, why bother? Why bother having to learn something new when what they have now is comfortable and works fine. A 200 mile Bolt or anything else won't matter to them, they have no motivation to change.

I agree. I think the problem is an EV requires too much rational thinking to be attractive to most people. Car purchases seem to based on more shallow concerns like how a vehicle will promote how others might view you. Hopefully this will change with the Model 3. Tesla seems to have broken the asperational code that other EV manufactures have not.

 

[WetEV]

I had the same impression for the first years of owning a Prius. Uninterested at best.

This all changed in 2007 when gasoline topped $3, all of a sudden lots of questions from random people at the gas station and elsewhere.

 

[DNAinaGoodWay]

For sure, cost of gas would be a primary driver, not at this level though.
Model 3 will be great, but it won't win over many, if any, of my coworkers on its own, even with the way Tesla is building infrastructure. They'd have to change. They'd have to think and plan. ICE driving is mindless. They're very comfortable with mindlessness.

 

[DanCar]

... They're very comfortable with mindlessness.

They will even be more mindless with a Model 3 that drives itself.

 

[GRA]

... They're very comfortable with mindlessness.

They will even be more mindless with a Model 3 that drives itself.

As that technology won't be restricted to BEVs, they can get the same benefit with an ICE.

 

[DanCar]

... They're very comfortable with mindlessness.

They will even be more mindless with a Model 3 that drives itself.

As that technology won't be restricted to BEVs, they can get the same benefit with an ICE.

It is and will continue to be available first on EVs or at least Tesla's first.

 

[GRA]

They will even be more mindless with a Model 3 that drives itself.

As that technology won't be restricted to BEVs, they can get the same benefit with an ICE.

It is and will continue to be available first on EVs or at least Tesla's first.

With many other luxury automakers about to offer similar capability. AEB/ACC, the most critical tech, will become standard well down market over the next few years, and essentially universal by 2025. Lane following is already available on a number of other cars, and limited autonomy available for a fair number other than Tesla (Infiniti/Mercedes/Volvo/VW) with Audi set to join the list in 2017 - see the chart labeled "Allows unassisted driving under limited conditions" near the bottom of this page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lane_departure_warning_system

Meanwhile, we'll have to deal with the inevitable technical glitches and accidents, and the legal fallout from same. Via IEVS:

Fatal Accident Of Tesla Model S In AutoPilot Mode Opens NHTSA Investigation

http://insideevs.com/fatal-accident-tesla-model-s-autopilot-opens-nhtsa-investigation/

. . . The investigation could lead to a recall, or retraction of the Autopilot system entirely if the agency finds the vehicles are unsafe while operating in Autopilot mode.

Tesla's account via the same source, which claims this is the first fatality in over 130m miles of Autopilot use:

• What we know is that the vehicle was on a divided highway with Autopilot engaged when a tractor trailer drove across the highway perpendicular to the Model S. Neither Autopilot nor the driver noticed the white side of the tractor trailer against a brightly lit sky, so the brake was not applied.
  
  The high ride height of the trailer combined with its positioning across the road and the extremely rare circumstances of the impact caused the Model S to pass under the trailer, with the bottom of the trailer impacting the windshield of the Model S. Had the Model S impacted the front or rear of the trailer, even at high speed, its advanced crash safety system would likely have prevented serious injury as it has in numerous other similar incidents.

We note that the victim is listed as 40-year-old Ohio resident Joshua Brown, who appears to be the same person who reported in April that the Tesla Autopilot system potentially saved his life (YouTube video of earlier Autopilot crash avoidance incident below):

 

[DanCar]

With many other luxury automakers about to offer similar capability. AEB/ACC, the most critical tech, will become standard well down market over the next few years, and essentially universal by 2025. Lane following is already available on a number of other cars, and limited autonomy available for a fair number other than Tesla (Infiniti/Mercedes/Volvo/VW) with Audi set to join the list in 2017 - see the chart labeled "Allows unassisted driving under limited conditions" near the bottom of this page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lane_departure_warning_system ...

The problem or benefit of those other systems is they require hands on the wheel where as Tesla is much less so.

 

[GRA]

With many other luxury automakers about to offer similar capability. AEB/ACC, the most critical tech, will become standard well down market over the next few years, and essentially universal by 2025. Lane following is already available on a number of other cars, and limited autonomy available for a fair number other than Tesla (Infiniti/Mercedes/Volvo/VW) with Audi set to join the list in 2017 - see the chart labeled "Allows unassisted driving under limited conditions" near the bottom of this page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lane_departure_warning_system ...

The problem or benefit of those other systems is they require hands on the wheel where as Tesla is much less so.

Did you see the updated part of my post? A bit more from Tesla's blog post, as copied by IEVS:

Autopilot “is an assist feature that requires you to keep your hands on the steering wheel at all times,” and that “you need to maintain control and responsibility for your vehicle” while using it. Additionally, every time that Autopilot is engaged, the car reminds the driver to “Always keep your hands on the wheel. Be prepared to take over at any time.” The system also makes frequent checks to ensure that the driver’s hands remain on the wheel and provides visual and audible alerts if hands-on is not detected. It then gradually slows down the car until hands-on is detected again.

This seems to be an accident that, if the driver had had his eyes on the road, hands on the wheel, and brain engaged, probably could have been avoided. Autopilot will likely be found a contributing if not the primary cause of this accident, depending on the visibility conditions at the time, if a normally alert driver should have seen the trailer. Irregardless, it will require modification of the vertical coverage of the autopilot sensors. Tesla's account implies there was a visual contrast issue, which shouldn't be an problem for lidar/radar sensors given adequate vertical as well as horizontal coverage - the radar sensor should be able to pick up the trailer (or the tractor cab FTM) given adequate vertical beamwidth. Here's an account and comments on Autopilot's sensors: https://www.quora.com/What-kind-of-sensors-does-the-Tesla-Model-S-use-for-its-autopilot-auto-steering-features

As you can see, this is pretty far from the sensors package you would need for fully autonomous driving, and nothing revolutionary. I don't think you can expect the current crop of Teslas to ever become fully autonomous. They'll need a different sensors package for that.

 

[DanCar]

Did you see the updated part of my post? A bit more from Tesla's blog post, as copied by IEVS:

Autopilot “is an assist feature that requires you to keep your hands on the steering wheel at all times,”

Yes, but the other systems beep and warn and stop if you don't have hands on all the time. Tesla's system does not. Only beeps and wants hands on the wheel occasionally. See this video for reference:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tq_OTcncPH0
In other words, what Tesla says and what the system requires while operating it are two different things.

 

[GRA]

Did you see the updated part of my post? A bit more from Tesla's blog post, as copied by IEVS:

Autopilot “is an assist feature that requires you to keep your hands on the steering wheel at all times,”

Yes, but the other systems beep and warn and stop if you don't have hands on all the time. Tesla's system does not. Only beeps and wants hands on the wheel occasionally. See this video for reference:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tq_OTcncPH0
In other words, what Tesla says and what the system requires while operating it are two different things.

The tort lawyers will have a field day with that, and in the meantime I expect we'll see Autopilot modified in short order if not turned off completely. Of course, it never should have been called "Autopilot" in the first place, as it's far too immature for that - "Driver Assist" or "Pilot Assist," the latter Volvo's term, is much better. Expecting human beings to make the distinction between the name and the reality is likely going to cost Tesla big bucks.

 

[Stoaty]

This seems to be an accident that, if the driver had had his eyes on the road, hands on the wheel, and brain engaged, probably could have been avoided. Autopilot will likely be found a contributing if not the primary cause of this accident, depending on the visibility conditions at the time, if a normally alert driver should have seen the trailer.

Does anyone know how fast the Tesla was going? Big difference if it was 60 MPH or 90 MPH. I am wondering if speed was a significant contributing factor. If so, even an alert human may not have avoided the collision.

 

[lorenfb]

Does anyone know how fast the Tesla was going? Big difference if it was 60 MPH or 90 MPH. I am wondering if speed was a significant contributing factor. If so, even an alert human may not have avoided the collision.

Reports indicate that the speed of the Tesla was a contributing factor besides the Tesla driver watching a video
at impact time.

 

[Stoaty]

Reports indicate that the speed of the Tesla was a contributing factor besides the Tesla driver watching a video
at impact time.

Source? Here is mine:

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory/driving-car-driver-died-crash-florida-40260566

"Frank Baressi, 62, the driver of the truck and owner of Okemah Express LLC, said the Tesla driver was "playing Harry Potter on the TV screen" at the time of the crash and driving so quickly that "he went so fast through my trailer I didn't see him."

"It was still playing when he died and snapped a telephone pole a quarter mile down the road," Baressi told The Associated Press in an interview from his home in Palm Harbor, Florida. He acknowledged he couldn't see the movie, only heard it.

Tesla Motors Inc. said it is not possible to watch videos on the Model S touch screen. There was no reference to the movie in initial police reports."

Doesn't sound to me like he was watching a video.

 

[EVDRIVER]

Does anyone know how fast the Tesla was going? Big difference if it was 60 MPH or 90 MPH. I am wondering if speed was a significant contributing factor. If so, even an alert human may not have avoided the collision.

Reports indicate that the speed of the Tesla was a contributing factor besides the Tesla driver watching a video
at impact time.

Because the truck driver made statements that could be viewed to place blame on the Tesla driver does not make them fact, just like the many inaccurate and out of context comments that are popping up all over the internet. The highway seems as though it supports higher speeds and left turns in front of traffic is a common source of accidents. Why the truck driver did not see the car on what appears to be an open road is another question. The statements are odd that the driver "heard" but did not "see" a specific movie which could have been an audio recording. The car should technically have the right of way and since it was not coming around a blind corner one has to ask why a high vantage point truck made a turn in front of the car unless it was not easily visible because of driver or environmental conditions.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

My sense is that as longer range EVs become the norm, public L2 charging will become less necessary and fast charging, of some sort, will take over the public charging space.

I can only hope your sense is wrong. There is little doubt in my mind that 100 mile EVs will hold a significant portion of the market for years to come making destination charging critical. Sadly, only a handful of employers realize this. This has to change