charging infrastructure supporting NACS

[WetEV]

In North America Chamedo is dying, hopefully someone in the future will come up with a solution to replace the Chamedo port with NACS.

A module to be installed in a car with NACS connector and hooks into the rest of the car to pretend that a "Chademo" is in use would be expensive but would be more technically possible. Probably easier than a NACS to Chademo external adapter.

 

[SageBrush]

DC chargers:

ADS-TEC to offer CCS1 + NACS

These manufacturer reports all sound like the CHAdeMO plug has been replaced by a NACS plug
https://insideevs.com/news/674636/adstec-energy-battery-fast-chargers-nacs/

 

[DougWantsALeaf]

Given the time frame between order to install (and oem timing), guessing the new nacs/ccs chargers will start appearing very late next year, and in 2025 we will start to see chademo stations vanish as equipment dies and is replaced, but very slowly at first.

If 2024 is the last year of the Leaf, this also will time well with optics of no more full evs with Chademo being sold.

 

[cwerdna]

EV Charging Companies Protest Texas' Move To Mandate NACS Connector
ChargePoint, FLO, ABB, FreeWire, and EVBox said the move is "premature" in a letter to Texas Transportation Commission's chairman.
https://insideevs.com/news/674825/ev-charging-companies-protest-texas-move-mandate-nacs-connector/

"demanding more time to re-engineer and test Tesla's connectors.

The companies, which include operators ChargePoint Holdings and FLO, and manufacturers ABB, FreeWire, and EVBox, said the plan is "premature" and that it "risks the successful deployment" of the first phase of federal funds being rolled out.

"Time is needed to properly standardize, test, and certify the safety and interoperability of Tesla connectors across the industry," the companies said in the letter. Interestingly, both ChargePoint and FLO recently announced the availability of Tesla NACS at their charging stations.

Charging companies argued that they would have to re-work several aspects of NACS connectors, including extending the cable length and ensuring adequate temperature ranges, as well as get certifications for specific parts. They also highlighted the need for a strong supply chain of NACS cables and connectors that comply with the requirements."

 

[cwerdna]

Someone at work posted https://evstation.com/tesla-nacs-charger-adoption-tracker/.

 

[SageBrush]

Mercedes joins the NACS club

https://www.theverge.com/2023/7/7/23787186/mercedes-benz-tesla-nacs-ev-charging-standard

 

[cwerdna]

Yeah, saw that earlier today.

I'll probably start a new thread for automakers adopting NACS.

 

[dgpcolorado]

So you are saying newer Teslas still come with the J1772 adapter? I guess I thought the adapter was dropped with newer model S's and all other Teslas to save costs but maybe that was just the CHAdeMO adapter that was now optional....
I guess if all new cars with NACS come with a J1772 adapter that would be acceptable to me and I suppose at some point as all the J1772 EVSEs die and become replaced they will be replaced with NACS EVSEs and at that point mfgs. will drop the free adapter or make it an optional item for those with legacy working J1772 EVSEs.
Not that I was planning on purchasing any more J1772 EVSEs but this news will defiantly curtail any new J1772 equipment for me, even if a great deal, I can see the writing on the wall and it's not good for J1772

FWIW, the J1772/NACS adapter supplied with Tesla cars is quite robust. I've used mine more than 500 times and it continues to work well.


^ J1772 (r) to NACS (p) adapter





The reverse configuration, NACS (r) to J1772 (p), is available from EVSEadapters.com, for anyone with a LEAF who wants to use NACS Level 2 EVSEs:
https://www.evseadapters.com/shop/en/ev-chargers-charger-adapters-extension-cords/22-43-tesla-to-j1772-adapter.html#/8-color-white/27-max_amps-40a

 

[goldbrick]

Looks like the Ariya is moving to NACS soon (ish).

https://electrek.co/2023/07/19/nissan-first-japanese-automaker-teslas-nacs/

 

[DougWantsALeaf]

Nissan, if you are listening.

Build a Chademo to NACS adapter. Only sell it in the dealers, not online, and only to current Leaf owners. Maybe $500.

This will pull a market to your dealers who can upsell the owners to an attractive Ariya lease. The Leafs with adapter will sell for more on the used market, which creates another round of consumers for the next Ariya sales.

Think out of the box.

 

[SageBrush]

Looks like the Ariya is moving to NACS soon (ish).

https://electrek.co/2023/07/19/nissan-first-japanese-automaker-teslas-nacs/

The Ariya in the USA is a flop, no doubt in part (perhaps large part) a result of losing the EV tax credit. While the EV credit is in play, Nissan will be MIA until NACS equipped, USA produced EVs are offered. Latest reports suggest late 2025

Two years is a long time when it comes to EVs.

 

[Toby]

The Ariya in the USA is a flop, no doubt in part (perhaps large part) a result of losing the EV tax credit. While the EV credit is in play, Nissan will be MIA until NACS equipped, USA produced EVs are offered.

To me it looks like Nissan has put its eggs in the wrong basket. The world doesn't need any more SUVs, electric or otherwise. What we need is small, efficient cars. (and good public transit) The Leaf was a winner. It should be updated with CCS or NACS and battery temperature control. The leaf should have some small stable mates.

Back in the 1970s there was a big oil crunch. Suddenly everyone wanted a small car. Those companies that had small cars - Volkswagan, Datsun, Toyota, etc. sold a lot of cars. Something similar is bound to happen again as the price of gas inevitably goes up.

 

[DougWantsALeaf]

While I wasn't super impressed with the Ariya on my very short test drive, reviews have been increasingly positive.

If not road tripping(often), I think it comes down to design preference.

In spite of all the new EVs, outside of an occational dream of an eTron GT, Taycan or other impractical expensive toy, I still come back to enjoying my Leaf as transit of choice.

 

[GerryAZ]

I will be keeping my LEAF. If someone markets an NACS to CHAdeMO adapter that will allow me to use the new charging stations at a somewhat reasonable price and the cost to charge at NACS stations is within reason, I will buy one even though I rarely use DCQC. Having the ability to use DCQC would allow me to continue to use my LEAF for trips that are beyond roundtrip driving range from home.

 

[DougWantsALeaf]

Fully agreed.

If a reasonably priced adapter appears, I am driving a Leaf for many years to come.

Kind of surprised Setec isn't all over it. There are 600K Leafs in the wild.

 

[cwerdna]

Webasto NACS Charging Connector Option "Coming Soon"
The company unveiled a fully functioning mobile cordset sample with the NACS connector.
https://insideevs.com/news/678194/webasto-nacs-charging-connector-option/

Eaton Confirms NACS Connector Option For New Chargers In 2024
There will be a retrofit option for existing infrastructure as well.
https://insideevs.com/news/678225/eaton-nacs-charging-connector-2024/

The above surprised me as I thought Eaton got out of the EV charging biz in the US. I've used some other very old L2s before (albeit with goofy compat problems w/my former '13 Leaf, would require pressing a reset button on their EVSE a few times to get charging going, see https://www.plugshare.com/location/15000). If you Google for site:mynissanleaf.com eaton you'll see other problems + people having seen/used their DC FCs before (I never have).

Maybe they're back? I found https://www.eaton.com/us/en-us/products/emobility/ev-charging-products.html...

 

[cwerdna]

To me it looks like Nissan has put its eggs in the wrong basket. The world doesn't need any more SUVs, electric or otherwise. What we need is small, efficient cars. (and good public transit) The Leaf was a winner. It should be updated with CCS or NACS and battery temperature control. The leaf should have some small stable mates.

Back in the 1970s there was a big oil crunch. Suddenly everyone wanted a small car. Those companies that had small cars - Volkswagan, Datsun, Toyota, etc. sold a lot of cars. Something similar is bound to happen again as the price of gas inevitably goes up.

Unfortunately, many Americans like their land yachts, battering ram of death class SUVs, suburban assault vehicles, etc.

I remember seeing a piece on TV earlier tonight about larger 7-seater with 3rd row EV SUVs coming soon. I found https://www.wsj.com/articles/here-come-the-family-evs-f03f836a but it's probably behind a paywall. https://archive.is/LTlrY should let you see it.

 

[Toby]

Unfortunately, many Americans like their land yachts, battering ram of death class SUVs, suburban assault vehicles, etc.

You're right about that. The same is true in Canada. I can't go anywhere without seeing a large grill in my rear view mirror. The saddest thing to watch is seniors and handicapped individuals struggling to climb into their jacked up monsters.

 

[dgpcolorado]

Nissan, if you are listening.

Build a Chademo to NACS adapter. Only sell it in the dealers, not online, and only to current Leaf owners. Maybe $500.

This will pull a market to your dealers who can upsell the owners to an attractive Ariya lease. The Leafs with adapter will sell for more on the used market, which creates another round of consumers for the next Ariya sales.

Think out of the box.

Such an adapter might prove difficult, especially given the small size of the market.

My understanding is that the original Tesla to Chademo adapter was made possible because the two DCFC methods used a similar signalling protocol [CAN bus]. When SAE developed CCS1, they used a very different, incompatible, signalling system [PLC: Power Line Communication]. Since CCS2 in Europe used the same signalling protocol as CCS1 and its use was required for all public DCFC stations, Tesla switched to CCS signalling for DCFC for its cars (around 2019, I think, but not sure). Tesla cars in North America (and South Korea), manufactured after the switch, can use a simple adapter to charge with CCS1. Older Tesla cars have to have a modification to be able to use CCS1 fast charging.

Older Version 2 Supercharger Stations use the original Tesla signalling; newer Tesla cars can use them because the cars speak both Tesla and CCS1.

Newer Version 3 (and the coming V4) Supercharger Stations use CCS1/PLC signalling but also can accommodate the original Tesla signalling protocol, so that all Tesla cars can use them.

This is why Ford, GM, and other cars switching to NACS, will be able to use newer V3 and V4 Supercharger stations (subject to limits on certain crowded stations) but NOT the original V2 Supercharger Stations. The newer stations natively speak CCS1/PLC but the old ones don't.

Making an adapter for different plugs that use the same signalling protocol is relatively straightforward. Making an adapter that uses completely different signalling protocols is more complex.

[A third system is used in China, GB/T, and those cars are incompatible with Europe or North America.]

FWIW.

 

[cwerdna]

Regarding this chatter about different versions of Superchargers (e.g. v2 or below) not being capable of talking CCS's protocols, is this documented or reported by an credible source somewhere? I've heard this in other circles but also don't know the source and didn't bother asking, partly due to lack of time and interest.

It would create quite a bit of confusion when automakers signed onto NACS have a NACS to CCS1 adapter that works have to give the caveat that you need to go to v3 or newer Supercharger. How is Joe Average EV driver supposed to know this? They'll see the branding, typical look of the stalls and units, etc. and wouldn't have a clue. I have no idea how to tell nor do I care since I've never had a car that could use them anyway.

Or, will all US Superchargers be v3 or greater by then or will older ones be retrofitted to talk CCS?

Re: GB/T et al., https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/tesla-charge-ports-plugs-from-china-north-america-and-europe-compared-for-models-s-x-3-y.246571/ is a good summary. This is before Tesla named their plug/standard NACS. The author calls it TPC.