Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

[ENIAC]

I would just ask for a new battery, then sell it myself. Maybe sell it out of state.

Nissan isn't "just" handing out batteries. Good luck selling any LEAF, with $100-$200 leases on brand new LEAFs (that also qualify for $2500 rebate in California).

My old LEAF is still sitting on the lot at CarMax since July; I'm sure they "just" want to sell it.

Out of state (or country) might work, but that falls a bit outside of "just sell" it.

Are you sure? I thought I saw ol "PLGS IN" at the Escondido mall last week.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Are you sure? I thought I saw ol "PLGS IN" at the Escondido mall last week.

That plate is sitting in my garage, so it would have to be a new issue.

My car doesn't show up at CarMax anymore; I wonder if they wholesaled it, or retailed?

Ok, it's still there: VINJN1AZ0CP4BT002244

 

[spooka]

I would just ask for a new battery, then sell it myself. Maybe sell it out of state.

Since we don't know the price, this would just be a guess but I would think it would be far more expensive for Nissan to replace a battery pack vs purchasing the car back from the customer.

 

[smkettner]

I would just ask for a new battery, then sell it myself. Maybe sell it out of state.

Nissan isn't "just" handing out batteries. Good luck selling any LEAF, with $100-$200 leases on brand new LEAFs (that also qualify for $2500 rebate in California).

My old LEAF is still sitting on the lot at CarMax since July; I'm sure they "just" want to sell it.

Out of state (or country) might work, but that falls a bit outside of "just sell" it.

Not to have a new battery once a year but as a final settlement for the weak disclosure on AZ heat.
I would assume it would sell quickly at the right price and a reciept for a brand new battery.

Is the CarMax LEAF listed under $19k? Because that is where they need to be with a year or two on the battery.
But listed at 24k & 25k they will be slow movers and like any used car dropping in value daily. Possibly get that price with a new battery but I would not expect more than $22k.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Is the CarMax LEAF listed under $19k? Because that is where they need to be with a year or two on the battery.
But listed at 24k & 25k they will be slow movers and like any used car dropping in value daily. Possibly get that price with a new battery but I would not expect more than $22k.

They paid me $23k. What price would you sell it for?

 

[smkettner]

All in I paid $25,300 with 12 miles on mine. That is tax, registration, rebates, all of it. CM paid too much IMO. As a reseller I would have given maybe 17 max to sell at 22, maybe less.

Even with a brand new battery I would not pay 25 for a 2011. Tax alone is almost $1,900 so take at least 2k off the top.

That is my take on it. You got a great deal IMO.

Just saying a new battery as full, complete and final settlement for any heat issue would make me whole to either use the vehicle that I know the outcome or sell it off my choice would make me happy enough.

 

[spooka]

Just saying a new battery as full, complete and final settlement for any heat issue would make me whole to either use the vehicle that I know the outcome or sell it off my choice would make me happy enough.

They'd have to replace my battery pack twice to get me to the 80% I expected after 5 years to make me whole in Phoenix and that's with me driving what an average American drives every year, not what Andy Palmer says I have to drive. I'd actually be using the car for its intended purpose, not as a museum piece.

 

[smkettner]

I wonder what the cost is on a buy back vs a single one-time battery swap?

 

[Joeviocoe]

Larger screenshot

Geographical Analysis of Nissan Leafs with Battery Capacity Loss
... with Data sourced from the "Real World Battery Capacity Loss" tracking wiki page

Version 1.15

Much more reliable Geocoding of Map points!

I know the Map sheet has been up and down all day. Mostly from me working on it. As I was writing code and debugging, I constantly reached limits on the number of times I could fetch MapQuest GPS data. Although previous versions were working fine, it wasn't really scalable past 50 unique locations. So as new Leaf owners, from different towns and cities came into the wiki... it would have stopped getting new map points. So I made a lot of changes. Now, theoretically, it should be good for 2,500 unique locations (we're at 50 now). After that, and I'll have to host a big lookup table of GPS coordinates for all these locations.

Also, the sheets should auto-expand as new data comes in. So really no need for anybody to edit or maintain this.. just the wiki.

We'll see how stable everything is over the next few days. Enjoy.

 

[vrwl]

Version 1.15

Much more reliable Geocoding of Map points!

I know the Map sheet has been up and down all day. Mostly from me working on it. As I was writing code and debugging, I constantly reached limits on the number of times I could fetch MapQuest GPS data. Although previous versions were working fine, it wasn't really scalable past 50 unique locations. So as new Leaf owners, from different towns and cities came into the wiki... it would have stopped getting new map points. So I made a lot of changes. Now, theoretically, it should be good for 2,500 unique locations (we're at 50 now). After that, and I'll have to host a big lookup table of GPS coordinates for all these locations.

Also, the sheets should auto-expand as new data comes in. So really no need for anybody to edit or maintain this.. just the wiki.

We'll see how stable everything is over the next few days. Enjoy.

Nice work, thanks for the effort.

 

[spooka]

Bewildered is one word I would use...

OK, Sonic is staying at the dealership tonight awaiting his battery test tomorrow. The tech from Casa Grande should be downloading all kinds of proprietary info around 1pm tomorrow and I should have the car back tomorrow evening. I did not receive a questionnaire to fill out. I gave them my key fob and signed the normal "let us work on your car" release and that was it. Nissan is providing me with a newish Altima to drive as a replacement.

I did have a lengthy conversation with the dealer's LEAF specialist. I'm passing some of it along here with caution since I believe most of the info was well meant but not exactly accurate.

I had commented to the specialist that I was only able to drive about 45 miles to LBW on an 80% charge and how after 15 months of ownership this well, really sucks. I was then told to charge to 100% going forward since it didn't matter to the battery. He seemed confused that I would ever want to charge to 80% and said there is a lot of mis-information "out there" about this. I discussed Nissan's recommendation about 100% charging and battery degradation. The specialist stated it was more important for me to get more range since Nissan warrantied the battery to be at 80% in 5 years. If it wasn't, the dealer would request Nissan replace the battery under warranty. He was clear about this and reinforced his point by citing examples of how Nissan has helped past customers with various major car issues. My response was skeptical. I asked him if he had seen the recent Sexton/Palmer interview. He said he had. He was familiar with the 5 year/76% capacity statement but was not aware of the 7,500 mile yearly limit to get the battery pack there. I suggested he watch it again.

As always, it is frustrating to get this type of conflicting information, especially from the dealers "expert" on this car type. I am not sure if he was just trying to talk me off the ledge regarding my goal to return my car to Nissan, was instructed to have this conversation with me for whatever reason, was assessing my knowledge about the capacity issue in general or was just trying to be nice and alleviate my concerns. Whatever the reason, I left the dealer wondering if I really had the conversation I just had. I can't wait to see Nissan happily replace 400 battery packs when they hit 80% capacity prematurely in Phoenix. Not going to happen.

I'll post when I receive the "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain" call. Just can't wait to hear how awesomely normal my battery pack is.

 

[Stoaty]

I had commented to the specialist that I was only able to drive about 45 miles to LBW on an 80% charge and how after 15 months of ownership this well, really sucks. I was then told to charge to 100% going forward since it didn't matter to the battery.

From the study recently referenced on PHEV battery degradation, I believe this is most likely true, as long as the battery is left at 100% charge for a minimal amount of time (finish charge immediately before planned driving).

 

[jspearman]

Bewildered is one word I would use...

I had commented to the specialist that I was only able to drive about 45 miles to LBW on an 80% charge and how after 15 months of ownership this well, really sucks. I was then told to charge to 100% going forward since it didn't matter to the battery. He seemed confused that I would ever want to charge to 80% and said there is a lot of mis-information "out there" about this. I discussed Nissan's recommendation about 100% charging and battery degradation. The specialist stated it was more important for me to get more range since Nissan warrantied the battery to be at 80% in 5 years. If it wasn't, the dealer would request Nissan replace the battery under warranty. He was clear about this and reinforced his point by citing examples of how Nissan has helped past customers with various major car issues. My response was skeptical. I asked him if he had seen the recent Sexton/Palmer interview. He said he had. He was familiar with the 5 year/76% capacity statement but was not aware of the 7,500 mile yearly limit to get the battery pack there. I suggested he watch it again.

WTF is wrong with Nissan? I'm really sick of these games. They need to assign one specialist to Phoenix and one for the other cases outside of Phoenix, and they both need to get their stories straight. No more BS. No more sending a guy from Casa Grande who says there are only 11 cars that are having this issue and treating us like uninformed idiots. I want one point person to talk to: not someone in Smyrna, another in Casa Grande, and the dealer, all of whom are telling me different things. This is beyond frustrating.

Spooka, do you mind telling us the dealer? I bought mine at Avondale, but they aren't even writing me back at this point. I took my car into ABC last week because it's only 2 miles from my house.

 

[spooka]

Bewildered is one word I would use...

I had commented to the specialist that I was only able to drive about 45 miles to LBW on an 80% charge and how after 15 months of ownership this well, really sucks. I was then told to charge to 100% going forward since it didn't matter to the battery. He seemed confused that I would ever want to charge to 80% and said there is a lot of mis-information "out there" about this. I discussed Nissan's recommendation about 100% charging and battery degradation. The specialist stated it was more important for me to get more range since Nissan warrantied the battery to be at 80% in 5 years. If it wasn't, the dealer would request Nissan replace the battery under warranty. He was clear about this and reinforced his point by citing examples of how Nissan has helped past customers with various major car issues. My response was skeptical. I asked him if he had seen the recent Sexton/Palmer interview. He said he had. He was familiar with the 5 year/76% capacity statement but was not aware of the 7,500 mile yearly limit to get the battery pack there. I suggested he watch it again.

WTF is wrong with Nissan? I'm really sick of these games. They need to assign one specialist to Phoenix and one for the other cases outside of Phoenix, and they both need to get their stories straight. No more BS. No more sending a guy from Casa Grande who says there are only 11 cars that are having this issue and treating us like uninformed idiots. I want one point person to talk to: not someone in Smyrna, another in Casa Grande, and the dealer, all of whom are telling me different things. This is beyond frustrating.

Spooka, do you mind telling us the dealer? I bought mine at Avondale, but they aren't even writing me back at this point. I took my car into ABC last week because it's only 2 miles from my house.

I am dealing with Peoria Nissan. I also purchased at Avondale but Peoria is closer to my house. Since, I dropped off my car the night before, I didn't get to meet the Casa Grand tech. Bet it was a blast for you though. :roll:

I also have to give credit when it is due and say thanks to Nissan for reimbursing expenses for me when I participated in Tony's
Tempe 12 Test. Please just take my junk car back now.

My new window artwork. (Idea stolen from Wiltingleaf).

 

[mkjayakumar]

Wow.. cool. How did you do the animation ?

 

[ALLWATZ]

Bewildered is one word I would use...

I had commented to the specialist that I was only able to drive about 45 miles to LBW on an 80% charge and how after 15 months of ownership this well, really sucks. I was then told to charge to 100% going forward since it didn't matter to the battery. He seemed confused that I would ever want to charge to 80% and said there is a lot of mis-information "out there" about this. I discussed Nissan's recommendation about 100% charging and battery degradation. The specialist stated it was more important for me to get more range since Nissan warrantied the battery to be at 80% in 5 years. If it wasn't, the dealer would request Nissan replace the battery under warranty. He was clear about this and reinforced his point by citing examples of how Nissan has helped past customers with various major car issues. My response was skeptical. I asked him if he had seen the recent Sexton/Palmer interview. He said he had. He was familiar with the 5 year/76% capacity statement but was not aware of the 7,500 mile yearly limit to get the battery pack there. I suggested he watch it again.

WTF is wrong with Nissan? I'm really sick of these games. They need to assign one specialist to Phoenix and one for the other cases outside of Phoenix, and they both need to get their stories straight. No more BS. No more sending a guy from Casa Grande who says there are only 11 cars that are having this issue and treating us like uninformed idiots. I want one point person to talk to: not someone in Smyrna, another in Casa Grande, and the dealer, all of whom are telling me different things. This is beyond frustrating.

Hey, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater! There are those of us who live outside of Phoenix and are having the same issues and agree with you but, they need to have 1 person handle the hot weather areas. It wouldn't be hard for Nissan to look at a map and say that a Leaf owner lives in a area that experiences high temps (looking at Joeviocoe's map work would indeed show that my area had 68 days above 100 and phoenix only had 67).

 

[spooka]

I was then told to charge to 100% going forward since it didn't matter to the battery.

From the study recently referenced on PHEV battery degradation, I believe this is most likely true, as long as the battery is left at 100% charge for a minimal amount of time (finish charge immediately before planned driving).

Now that I think about it, this could be Nissan's response to the CA lawsuit. What 80% charge recommendation your honor? They can charge to 100% anytime they want.

Starting to make sense.

 

[spooka]

Wow.. cool. How did you do the animation ?

Animation? Sonic really talks! :lol:

On the days he his being "difficult" though, I use Crazy Talk.

 

[jspearman]

So, just got off the phone with Adrian, the arbitration specialist in TN. She said there is nothing they can do at this time, that the car is performing to specification. Nice.

I was livid and I let her know what a crock of #$%& this is. She insinuated that my car was high-mileage (16K miles in 1 year/2 months). I told her that 7,500 miles a year was not acceptable for any car, and she essentially said it was a niche car, to which I responded NO, it's not, it's a car that was/is sold as being capable of everyday driving, which means average mileage of 12-15K miles. It's not a NEV or a golf cart.

I had planned to have them buy the car back and lease a 2012, but no longer. I will never, ever own another Nissan if this is the way I can expect them to stand behind their cars. Unbelievable.

 

[Volusiano]

So, just got off the phone with Adrian, the arbitration specialist in TN. She said there is nothing they can do at this time, that the car is performing to specification. Nice.

I was livid and I let her know what a crock of #$%& this is. She insinuated that my car was high-mileage (16K miles in 1 year/2 months). I told her that 7,500 miles a year was not acceptable for any car, and she essentially said it was a niche car, to which I responded NO, it's not, it's a car that was/is sold as being capable of everyday driving, which means average mileage of 12-15K miles. It's not a NEV or a golf cart.

I had planned to have them buy the car back and lease a 2012, but no longer. I will never, ever own another Nissan if this is the way I can expect them to stand behind their cars. Unbelievable.

I'm a little confused. Is Adrian a Nissan employee, or an independent arbitrator? Sure sounds like a Nissan employee to me.

I wonder why they bother contacting you for arbitration/possible buy-back only to let you down like this.

Have they bought-back any LEAFs with less than 3 or 4 bar loss?

Maybe the only way you'll get your buy-back is get in front of the TV news. :roll: