Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

[Stoaty]

Made some serious updates to the dynamic Spreadsheet. It now has a more complete Google map which geolocates all reported Leafs with battery capacity loss, and displays detailed information about each report upon mouse hover.
The other tabs will give you a bigger map, as well as the source data and formulae.

Please let me know if the interface is painfully slow. There is now a LOT of cross-calculations and external website updating going on.

Coming along VERY nicely. Couple of issues:

1) There are 109 Leafs that have lost battery capacity, not 108. Not sure if this part is supposed to be dynamic or if you have to update manually

2) I can't zoom in on the Google map to see what is going on

3) Mouse hovering doesn't produce any detailed info (Firefox 15.0.1, Win 7/64)

4) World Map Full Screen doesn't work. Gives this message "The columns type does not match the supported data format. See documentation for supported formats."

 

[Joeviocoe]

Made some serious updates to the dynamic Spreadsheet. It now has a more complete Google map which geolocates all reported Leafs with battery capacity loss, and displays detailed information about each report upon mouse hover.
The other tabs will give you a bigger map, as well as the source data and formulae.

Please let me know if the interface is painfully slow. There is now a LOT of cross-calculations and external website updating going on.

Coming along VERY nicely. Couple of issues:

1) There are 109 Leafs that have lost battery capacity, not 108. Not sure if this part is supposed to be dynamic or if you have to update manually

2) I can't zoom in on the Google map to see what is going on

3) Mouse hovering doesn't produce any detailed info (Firefox 15.0.1, Win 7/64)

4) World Map Full Screen doesn't work. Gives this message "The columns type does not match the supported data format. See documentation for supported formats."

Thanks for the feedback.

1) I do not input any data manually, Google updates the spreadsheet cells periodically. I can't speed it up any faster either since they like to cache to keep these cloud services using as little resources as possible. It has already updated to include your latest entry, Sara Rose Piehler.
But I formulated the spreadsheet to remove duplicates based on the username. Ticktock is listed twice to give 109. I have made edits to the wiki ONLY to fix some typos that affect the calculations (inconsistent spellings, different cities for same user, format of location).. but I left the duplicate Ticktock because the detail section contained different information.
So I believe the true number is in fact 108.

It would help me greatly to keep this dynamic spreadsheet accurate if all future entries were to always include a username that exactly matches (case-sensitive) any previous entries for that user. Also, to always have the location in the "City, ST" or "City, Country" format. Also, Google limits me to 50 geo checks per spreadsheets. So we're at 48 unique cities that Google must translate into GPS coordinates,... so if at all possible, use locations that have been listed already if nearby (avoid small towns that only have one Leaf). This will keep the processing down.

2 and 3) Disregard the mini map on the first sheet... only I can click into it and zoom into individual users. Just go to the full page Map on the next sheet.

4) My bad, forgot to update that one after my last change. Try it again please.

 

[Stoaty]

1) Ticktock is listed twice to give 109. I have made edits to the wiki ONLY to fix some typos that affect the calculations (inconsistent spellings, different cities for same user, format of location).. but I left the duplicate Ticktock because the detail section contained different information.
So I believe the true number is in fact 108.

I should correct that. Thanks for the heads up.

2 and 3) You have to click on the map and bring it into focus first, then mouse hover, zoom in, etc should work. If you cannot click into the map with your firefox... try updating Flash player to the latest (11.4 r31)... or try a different browser.

Working fine not, not sure what the problem was.

I noted one apparent error: the Inland Empire is generally considered to be the San Bernardino/Riverside area. You have it placed (or google maps has it placed) way North of where it should be).

Edit: World Map full screen no longer gives the error, but it doesn't do anything for me except bring up a grayed out menu. Double Edit: oops, User Error. Works fine now.

 

[Stoaty]

I have added a brief description of the dynamic spreadsheet (and link to it) to the Wiki:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/wiki/index.php?title=Battery_Capacity_Loss#Real_World_Battery_Capacity_Losses" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[Joeviocoe]

1) Ticktock is listed twice to give 109. I have made edits to the wiki ONLY to fix some typos that affect the calculations (inconsistent spellings, different cities for same user, format of location).. but I left the duplicate Ticktock because the detail section contained different information.
So I believe the true number is in fact 108.

I should correct that. Thanks for the heads up.

2 and 3) You have to click on the map and bring it into focus first, then mouse hover, zoom in, etc should work. If you cannot click into the map with your firefox... try updating Flash player to the latest (11.4 r31)... or try a different browser.

Working fine not, not sure what the problem was.

I noted one apparent error: the Inland Empire is generally considered to be the San Bernardino/Riverside area. You have it placed (or google maps has it placed) way North of where it should be).

Edit: World Map full screen no longer gives the error, but it doesn't do anything for me except bring up a grayed out menu. Double Edit: oops, User Error. Works fine now.

So you CAN pan/zoom/hover in the mini Google Map on the first sheet???
Have you logged into a gmail account or something to make that work. Because it doesn't work for me if I am not logged in.

And the full screen Map works great for you as well??

Let me know if there is any data analysis you would like to add. Trend reporting based on mileage and age will be difficult, and there are many gaps in the data.
I want to set this up for the long term, without any need for maintenance... as long as the source wiki stays in the same format. (if you add a "5 bars lost" section, I will have to make a few changes though).

Hopefully, people on MNL can see this and gain a better understanding of the scope and limits to the problem (as we currently know it).

I have added a brief description of the dynamic spreadsheet (and link to it) to the Wiki:


wiki/index.php?title=Battery_Capacity_Loss#Real_World_Battery_Capacity_Losses

Thank you.

 

[Stoaty]

So you CAN pan/zoom/hover in the mini Google Map on the first sheet???
Have you logged into a gmail account or something to make that work. Because it doesn't work for me if I am not logged in.

And the full screen Map works great for you as well??

Sorry I wasn't clear. The full screen map works, but I can't pan/zoom/hover on the mini Google Map. Perhaps you should make that clear on the mini map itself. It would be better if you could click or double click the mini map to get the full screen one that you can pan/zoom/hover.

 

[Joeviocoe]

So you CAN pan/zoom/hover in the mini Google Map on the first sheet???
Have you logged into a gmail account or something to make that work. Because it doesn't work for me if I am not logged in.

And the full screen Map works great for you as well??

Sorry I wasn't clear. The full screen map works, but I can't pan/zoom/hover on the mini Google Map. Perhaps you should make that clear on the mini map itself. It would be better if you could click or double click the mini map to get the full screen one that you can pan/zoom/hover.

Thanks... I'll research how to do that.

 

[ALLWATZ]

Was just contacted by an arbitrator at Nissan to review the results of the testing they did on Wednesday. As you can imagine, all is normal, it's new technology, etc. They want to keep an eye on things and for me to bring it in again down the road. I told her I'm not happy with that answer and that I would be interested in a 2-year lease, but no longer want to be an owner, that by the time our car is 3 years old it will no longer be useful in Phoenix for anything but the shortest drives. I told her I knew the owners who took lemon law protection and didn't want to take them, or myself, down that road, so we'll see what happens.

I didn't expect it be easy, but I sort of hoped it would be.

Thanks again for the continued updates.

I wonder if there should be a specific thread for these reports.

Did you happen to find out what your remaining capacity is? I'm not asking you to disclose a number if you have one. Just curious if you got the info. I will be asking them for this info.


My plan, when I receive the above response from them next week after I bring in Sonic, is to state that I am reactivating my BBB case immediately and requesting BBB arbitration per the AZ lemon law. I want to get to the bottom line on this one way or the other so we can all stop wasting our time. I'm game. I wonder if they will be.

Good luck. I just hope you don't get the response from BBB that I got! Keep us posted.

 

[Randy3]

Lost my first bar this morning.

VIN: 00204

Date of Loss: 10/12/2012

Odometer: 14,250

Month of Manufacture: 11/2010

Purchase Date: 01/11/2011

Times Quick Charged: zero

Times charged to 100%: about 35

Driving Style: I don't keep a running miles/kwh since purchase, but I generally get high 4's and low 5's. My wife, however, gets high 3's and low 4's (she drives it like an ICE).

Temp: I've had my LEAF for two summers, where we get about 20-30 days per summer over 100 degrees f. We avoid driving and parking the car in direct sunlight on those days. (For instance, my wife takes the our Insight to work when we know it's going to be over 100f.) Temp reading in car has been generally 6 bars for the past 3 months or so, until just the past 10 days or so, when it's been 5 bars.

Notes:
1. This morning, I charged the car to 100% and it sat for 5-6 hours before I used it. I didn't think that would be a bad thing. Wouldn't that time be used to balance the cells?

2. The post-charge GOM and battery measurements have been reading differently than normal for the past few days. Other than today, I've been charging to 80%, using a timer set to end at 7am. All summer long, I've been getting post charge car wings messages that the car charged "9 out of 12 bars." But for the past few days, I've been getting "11 out of 12 bars" messages. I had not seen that before. Also, I normally get GOM readings of about 72 miles available after charging to 80%. But, for the past few (and not before), the GOM has been reading 61 miles available post 80% charge.

So, I'm open to recommendations about putting in a ticket with 1-800-NoGasEV (think I got that number right). I know the car's battery is a consumable. Maybe this is all normal. The car works well for all my around town needs. But I enjoy occasionally driving it to the San Francisco Bay Area and to Yosemite (charging along the way). I hope this has not crippled my ability to make these trips.

 

[mwalsh]

So, I'm open to recommendations about putting in a ticket with 1-800-NoGasEV (think I got that number right). I know the car's battery is a consumable. Maybe this is all normal. The car works well for all my around town needs. But I enjoy occasionally driving it to the San Francisco Bay Area and to Yosemite (charging along the way). I hope this has not crippled my ability to make these trips.

I would get a case number anyway. You never know when or why it might have been a useful thing to have done. I'm going to get one when I loose my first bar, even if it does turn out to be "normal" (and at 21,000 miles and 21 months it might well be that I'm close).

 

[spooka]

I've seen this discussed everywhere but have not found an actual image until now. Thought there may be an interest in it. My apologies if it is already posted somewhere else.

Image of Capacity Level Gauge Segment Values from the LEAF service manual.

 

[planet4ever]

As the graphic says, that was in the November 2010 version of the service manual. It was removed from the April 2011 revision. That could have been because:

• it was inaccurate, or
• it was left out accidentally, or
• Nissan didn't want us to know, and discovered that too many people were looking at the service manual.

April 2011 is the service manual revision I have (for my car built in March 2011). Does anyone have a more recent revision? If so, can you find any graph or table relating capacity bars to degradation? (Like the one spooka showed, it would be in Section MWI, somewhere around MWI-22.)

Ray

 

[RegGuheert]

April 2011 is the service manual revision I have (for my car built in March 2011). Does anyone have a more recent revision?

I downloaded the service manuals in April 2012 and the MWI manual is the same version you have. I couldn't say whether or not is have been revised after that time.

 

[Joeviocoe]

Larger screenshot

Geographical Analysis of Nissan Leafs with Battery Capacity Loss
... with Data sourced from the "Real World Battery Capacity Loss" tracking wiki page

Version 1.10

Much faster now! Changed from Google's geocoding of 1 location per http request, max 50... to Mapquest's 100 locations per http request. So instead of polling 50 times, it polls once.

Added some breakdowns of Leafs by location on the Main sheet. And tiled the images to get rid of overlap.

Mapquest has some problems with locations that aren't city names, like "Valleys". Google is smarter though. So a few locations are in the middle of the state instead of where they're supposed to be. I sent Mapquest correction requests.

I have all locations randomized in a radius around the center of the GPS coordinates for the city listed... that way 53 Phoenix Icons weren't stacked on top of each other, but instead form a cloud around the center. I used to have this for all locations, but that made any lone Leaf at one location inaccurate. So, I set it to randomize only if more than 1 Leaf listed the same city.

Wiki pages that contain the source data are now on the main sheet.

Use "List Mode" to see the Any of the DATA sheets in any sort order and filter you wish!
Go to View menu, List... go to a DATA sheet (tabs on top this time), and click on the blue links (column headers) to SORT however you like, or you can also use the drop down menu just below that, to FILTER those rows.

Let me know if anyone would like an HTML embed code for the map.

Enjoy!

And much thanks to Stoaty for all the debugging help and suggestions.

 

[Stoaty]

Version 1.10

Much faster now! Changed from Google's geocoding of 1 location per http request, max 50... to Mapquest's 100 locations per http request. So instead of polling 50 times, it polls once.

Added some breakdowns of Leafs by location on the Main sheet. And tiled the images to get rid of overlap.

Mapquest has some problems with locations that aren't city names, like "Valleys". Google is smarter though. So a few locations are in the middle of the state instead of where they're supposed to be. I sent Mapquest correction requests.

I have all locations randomized in a radius around the center of the GPS coordinates for the city listed... that way 53 Phoenix Icons weren't stacked on top of each other, but instead form a cloud around the center. I used to have this for all locations, but that made any lone Leaf at one location inaccurate. So, I set it to randomize only if more than 1 Leaf listed the same city.

Enjoy!

Wow! That sounds like a lot of work that you have done. Looks great!

PS If you find the google map not working properly... it's because Joe is doing MORE work on it.

 

[vrwl]

Thanks for the feedback.

1) I do not input any data manually, Google updates the spreadsheet cells periodically. I can't speed it up any faster either since they like to cache to keep these cloud services using as little resources as possible. It has already updated to include your latest entry, Sara Rose Piehler.
But I formulated the spreadsheet to remove duplicates based on the username. Ticktock is listed twice to give 109. I have made edits to the wiki ONLY to fix some typos that affect the calculations (inconsistent spellings, different cities for same user, format of location).. but I left the duplicate Ticktock because the detail section contained different information.
So I believe the true number is in fact 108.

It would help me greatly to keep this dynamic spreadsheet accurate if all future entries were to always include a username that exactly matches (case-sensitive) any previous entries for that user. Also, to always have the location in the "City, ST" or "City, Country" format. Also, Google limits me to 50 geo checks per spreadsheets. So we're at 48 unique cities that Google must translate into GPS coordinates,... so if at all possible, use locations that have been listed already if nearby (avoid small towns that only have one Leaf). This will keep the processing down.

2 and 3) Disregard the mini map on the first sheet... only I can click into it and zoom into individual users. Just go to the full page Map on the next sheet.

4) My bad, forgot to update that one after my last change. Try it again please.

When I click on the tab at the bottom for the Google Map, I get the following error on the result page and nothing displays other than the error: "The columns type does not match the supported data format. See documentation for supported formats."

 

[Stoaty]

When I click on the tab at the bottom for the Google Map, I get the following error on the result page and nothing displays other than the error: "The columns type does not match the supported data format. See documentation for supported formats."

As I said, that is probably because Joe is doing more work on it. Was functioning yesterday, I saw him working on it this AM. Doesn't work currently, but I'm sure it will shortly. Pretty cool.

 

[Stoaty]

I have moved some of the material in the Battery Capacity Loss section from "What To Do" to "Minimizing Battery Capacity Loss" (a new section), and also added additional material based on the accumulated info in the Factors Affecting Battery Capacity section:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/wiki/index.php?title=Battery_Capacity_Loss#Minimizing_Battery_Capacity_Loss" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I still need to add some material from the NREL study that was recently referenced:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/wiki/index.php?title=File:HEV_Battery_Life.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

but that may take a bit more time.

As always, comments, suggestions, corrections, revisions, etc. are welcome (or you can make the changes yourself).

 

[Joeviocoe]

Thanks for the feedback.

1) I do not input any data manually, Google updates the spreadsheet cells periodically. I can't speed it up any faster either since they like to cache to keep these cloud services using as little resources as possible. It has already updated to include your latest entry, Sara Rose Piehler.
But I formulated the spreadsheet to remove duplicates based on the username. Ticktock is listed twice to give 109. I have made edits to the wiki ONLY to fix some typos that affect the calculations (inconsistent spellings, different cities for same user, format of location).. but I left the duplicate Ticktock because the detail section contained different information.
So I believe the true number is in fact 108.

It would help me greatly to keep this dynamic spreadsheet accurate if all future entries were to always include a username that exactly matches (case-sensitive) any previous entries for that user. Also, to always have the location in the "City, ST" or "City, Country" format. Also, Google limits me to 50 geo checks per spreadsheets. So we're at 48 unique cities that Google must translate into GPS coordinates,... so if at all possible, use locations that have been listed already if nearby (avoid small towns that only have one Leaf). This will keep the processing down.

2 and 3) Disregard the mini map on the first sheet... only I can click into it and zoom into individual users. Just go to the full page Map on the next sheet.

4) My bad, forgot to update that one after my last change. Try it again please.





When I click on the tab at the bottom for the Google Map, I get the following error on the result page and nothing displays other than the error: "The columns type does not match the supported data format. See documentation for supported formats."

FIXED

EDIT: As of 11pm 14Oct, Mapquest API Geocoding is down. So the map won't work til they fix it.
EDIT: Fixed again

 

[scottf200]

This topic has gotten fairly quiet. Is Nissan contacting various TX and AZ owners and requiring them to have non-disclosures as the outcome? Either buyback or promise of a new battery when they get mass produced in TN (for those whose range limits their use). That would hold over the leasers. In any event, it seems liked things were moving in a positive direction. (ie. saw a sale of a 'new' LEAF with limited range due to dealer hyper charging get replaced with a new one in another thread).