Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

[Deleted member 770]

FWIW, this is one of my discussion points during the LEAF Advisory Board trip to Japan coming up. If anyone else thinks they are likely to be similarly affected, let me know and I'll take a tally.

If you haven't already done that trip, I'd really appreciate it if you could add me to your list of those "similarly affected" by Nissan's "all or nothing" warranty.

At just shy of 3.5 years, I'm at 56,000 miles and 3 bars lost. 194 GIDs, 45.02 AHr, 68% Hx. I've already had to switch cars for my daily commute because my wife only drives around 15 miles per day. I would have been more than willing to pay a pro-rated rate for a replacement battery (based on Nissan's original claim of an 8-year battery life), just as we do with lead-acid 12v batteries in ICE cars today. But to go from a replacement cost of $0 to over $6,000 by crossing a threshold (a day or a mile) is a pretty big loss for those of us who are most affected.

I'm sure I'll lose the 4th bar next spring or summer, when the temps heat up, but it'll probably be 2-3,000 miles too late.

Nissan's definitely not doing the "right thing" here, IMHO.

Sigh.

 

[abasile]

I'm sure I'll lose the 4th bar next spring or summer, when the temps heat up, but it'll probably be 2-3,000 miles too late.

I agree with your position. However, if possible, once you reach 58K or 59K miles, perhaps you should consider not driving the car to avoid passing the warranty threshold. The battery will continue to lose capacity even if the car is left parked. You shouldn't have to do this, but if it saves you thousands of dollars, it might be worthwhile. Just don't do anything that could be construed as "abuse".

 

[RegGuheert]

I may as well add in here since I lost the 12th bar a few weeks ago. Right now have 26,497 miles on the clock. Hx had been below 85% for some time but the bar just recently came off a couple weeks ago.

Sorry about the loss of your first bar.

We also live in VA and took delivery of our 2011 about two weeks before you did. We are about 4000 miles behind you (currently reads 22,682) and have had capacity readings below 55Ah for two months now (since October 18), but the 12th bar continues to hang on. (P3227 update was over six months ago at the end of May 2014.) The capacity reading has gone as low as 55.42Ah, but it came back up a bit last weekend with a couple of QCs and now sits at 55.58Ah.

Can you please tell me what your Ah reading is now that you have lost your first bar? Also, have you had the P3227 update done on your vehicle? TIA.

 

[NasGoreList]

I'm sure I'll lose the 4th bar next spring or summer, when the temps heat up, but it'll probably be 2-3,000 miles too late.

I agree with your position. However, if possible, once you reach 58K or 59K miles, perhaps you should consider not driving the car to avoid passing the warranty threshold. The battery will continue to lose capacity even if the car is left parked. You shouldn't have to do this, but if it saves you thousands of dollars, it might be worthwhile. Just don't do anything that could be construed as "abuse".

what he said..It would be wiser to wait it out, summer heat will be your friend...

 

[Deleted member 770]

I'm sure I'll lose the 4th bar next spring or summer, when the temps heat up, but it'll probably be 2-3,000 miles too late.

I agree with your position. However, if possible, once you reach 58K or 59K miles, perhaps you should consider not driving the car to avoid passing the warranty threshold. The battery will continue to lose capacity even if the car is left parked. You shouldn't have to do this, but if it saves you thousands of dollars, it might be worthwhile. Just don't do anything that could be construed as "abuse".

Alas, we're effectively doing that now. Because of the range loss, I'm having to use our gasser (an Evo IX) for my commute, while my wife does the "around town" driving with the LEAF. And because we never know when we might have to run errands after work, we keep the LEAF fully charged most of the time, where I used to be able to keep it at 80%. Not my choice, but it's what we've been forced to do by the capacity loss.

If it allows us to get in under the warranty, yes, we'll save some $$, but in the meantime (probably 6-9 months), I'll have had to drive my gasser, which will wind up costing me about half of what I'd save with a warranty replacement, not to mention wear and tear on that vehicle. And now that there seems to be rumors of at least some people getting non-lizard batteries as warranty replacements (can anybody confirm an instance?), it's becoming even less worthwhile.

C'mon Nissan, just pro-rate the battery based on your original "8 years to 70%" claim...

 

[mwalsh]

Alas, we're effectively doing that now. Because of the range loss, I'm having to use our gasser (an Evo IX) for my commute, while my wife does the "around town" driving with the LEAF. And because we never know when we might have to run errands after work, we keep the LEAF fully charged most of the time, where I used to be able to keep it at 80%. Not my choice, but it's what we've been forced to do by the capacity loss.

If it allows us to get in under the warranty, yes, we'll save some $$, but in the meantime (probably 6-9 months), I'll have had to drive my gasser, which will wind up costing me about half of what I'd save with a warranty replacement, not to mention wear and tear on that vehicle. And now that there seems to be rumors of at least some people getting non-lizard batteries as warranty replacements (can anybody confirm an instance?), it's becoming even less worthwhile.

C'mon Nissan, just pro-rate the battery based on your original "8 years to 70%" claim...

It's getting to be a pain in the rear for me too. Dragging out the portable EVSE at work every day (especially when it's pouring rain). The $20 a month that my employer agreed to accept as a contribution to the office snack fund for the electricity I take. Worrying that we'll have a power outage at the office that would preclude me from charging there and the further worry about being able to make it to a public charger where there is power (a minimal worry, I'll admit). Having to leave the LEAF when I know there is zero chance of it making the trip one-way without charging and taking the Volt instead. Sigh.

I think the rumor of non-Lizard batteries for warranty replacements has been discounted.

BTW, I actually found a Nissan document the other day promising 10 years "with normal driving". I should find it again and download it.

 

[TimLee]

...I think the rumor of non-Lizard batteries for warranty replacements has been discounted.

BTW, I actually found a Nissan document the other day promising 10 years "with normal driving". I should find it again and download it.

Do you have a good link to believable info that capacity warranty replacements are all now heat resistant 2015 batteries, Mike :?: Several have claimed it but without much confirming info.

Would love to see that document :!:
I tried to find the advertisements that I thought I had seen on LEAF realistic ranges under various conditions that I thought I saw in National Geographic. Never found it.
Unfortunately the electronic version I have that would be quick to search is too old

 

[mwalsh]

Would love to see that document :!:
I tried to find the advertisements that I thought I had seen on LEAF realistic ranges under various conditions that I thought I saw in National Geographic. Never found it.
Unfortunately the electronic version I have that would be quick to search is too old

I've just tried to find it again and would you believe I cannot. I'll look again on Monday when I'm back in the office. I found it the same day I was looking for info on the battery pack registration process. Pictured is a Nissan LEAF surrounded by a number of bubbles, one of which reads "10" and then something like "expected battery life under normal driving conditions". It's pre-2011, as I recall.

 

[Roadburner440]

Can you please tell me what your Ah reading is now that you have lost your first bar? Also, have you had the P3227 update done on your vehicle? TIA.

Sure can. Leaf DD is saying I have 55.0974ah(82% approx.), and my Hx is 79.88. Battery temp at the time of my reading was around 43-44deg. Have no idea what the reading was when it actually lost the bar since it is these days not uncommon on the 11-12 models. Can't imagine it has changed much over the few weeks. I also just got that P3227 software update done a week ago when I had my flat tire. They did it since I had it in anyway. Ironically I lost the bar as the temps started getting cooler, and it hasn't come back with the cooler temps. So guess will see with spring if the ah and all goes back up and the bar comes back.

 

[mwalsh]

Would love to see that document :!:

Found it! It wasn't a document, it was a picture of the Nissan battery display from the Drive Electric tour:

 

[surfingslovak]

Found it! It wasn't a document, it was a picture of the Nissan battery display from the Drive Electric tour:

Nice one, Mike!

 

[Stanton]

I also just got that P3227 software update done a week ago when I had my flat tire. They did it since I had it in anyway. Ironically I lost the bar as the temps started getting cooler, and it hasn't come back with the cooler temps. So guess will see with spring if the ah and all goes back up and the bar comes back.

It won't; in fact, most folks LOSE a bar when the temps start to warm again. I suspect you were already over the threshold for losing a bar and the P3227 update just "re-calibrated" the BMS into realizing it. At least they can only do that update once!

 

[TimLee]

Mark Perry March 06, 2012 Nissan LEAF Facebook page YouTube video where he states 70% to 80% battery capacity after ten years at 1:03:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DShtvd5jJHQ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[mwalsh]

Mark Perry March 06, 2012 Nissan LEAF Facebook page YouTube video where he states 70% to 80% battery capacity after ten years at 1:03:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DShtvd5jJHQ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I still feel somewhat bad for Mark Perry. I don't know if he went off the reservation or if that was the party line of the time. Either way, he certainly seemed to become the scapegoat once things began to go pear-shaped. And while he may have been a bit of an odd-duck in his approach to PR and Marketing, I really liked him.

 

[palmermd]

I still feel somewhat bad for Mark Perry. I don't know if he went off the reservation or if that was the party line of the time. Either way, he certainly seemed to become the scapegoat once things began to go pear-shaped. And while he may have been a bit of an odd-duck in his approach to PR and Marketing, I really liked him.

I agree. I closely followed his comments in those early years, and I met him at the google meeting. It appeared to me that he was simply stating the company policy, and he was then scapegoated. I sensed some uneasiness about him as he stated some of these things, which leads me to believe he knew that what he was saying was a stretch, but it is what he was asked to say about the product.

 

[mwalsh]

I agree. I closely followed his comments in those early years, and I met him at the google meeting. It appeared to me that he was simply stating the company policy, and he was then scapegoated. I sensed some uneasiness about him as he stated some of these things, which leads me to believe he knew that what he was saying was a stretch, but it is what he was asked to say about the product.

Either way, I snagged that video with ClipConverter, just in case.

 

[TimLee]

It appeared to me that he was simply stating the company policy, and he was then scapegoated. I sensed some uneasiness about him as he stated some of these things, which leads me to believe he knew that what he was saying was a stretch, but it is what he was asked to say about the product.

Hard to tell which it was.
Without discovery, will likely be a long time before we know.
Maybe in thirty years a Nissan insider will write a tell all book.

Amazing how the Nissan story changed so much in only nine months after the video.
Kind of like having a baby :shock:
Five years / 60,000 miles, 66.25%.
But a replacement battery for the small percentage, likely less than 5%, that drop below 66.25%.

 

[electricfuture]

Here is an update: Nissan Poway called today and told me the battery has arrived I'll bring it in Friday Jan. 2 for the replacement. The day before "EV Support" called to tell me that it would arrive sometime next week but could still not give me any detailed shipping information. I told them not having any control over the process - not even having delivery information available to them was really poor customer relations. I suggested they bring this up with their management.

This display came up about 2 weeks after I lost the 4th bar.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/uzx8m3qb6xmr822/Battery%20Warning.jpg?dl=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[derkraut]

It appeared to me that he was simply stating the company policy, and he was then scapegoated. I sensed some uneasiness about him as he stated some of these things, which leads me to believe he knew that what he was saying was a stretch, but it is what he was asked to say about the product.

Hard to tell which it was.
Without discovery, will likely be a long time before we know.
Maybe in thirty years a Nissan insider will write a tell all book.

Amazing how the Nissan story changed so much in only nine months after the video.
Kind of like having a baby :shock:
Five years / 60,000 miles, 66.25%.
But a replacement battery for the small percentage, likely less than 5%, that drop below 66.25%.

I'm not very good at math; so...let's see if I have this right:
1. I've lost 2 bars; my Leaf Scan now shows a "C" reading of 50.89
2. When I lose my 4th bar, my battery capacity will be at or below approximately 66.25%
3. Using Leaf Scan, my C (AH) reading would then be about what? :?

 

[mwalsh]

2. When I lose my 4th bar, my battery capacity will be at or below approximately 66.25%
3. Using Leaf Scan, my C (AH) reading would then be about what? :?

Around 43AHr