Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

[Valdemar]

leaving the car fully charged for as long as possible

Doesn't that violate the warranty?

Within reason - no. For example charge to 100% right away at night instead of using the end of charge timer, and then once again at work, if charging is available, leaving it fully charged until you leave in the evening. I don't think this will cause any warranty issues, but you can have your car sit fully charged 12 hours a day.

 

[TomT]

Nope, it only appears as a recommendation in the owner's manual, and then almost as an aside. Nowhere is it mentioned that it voids any warranties... With the 80% timer gone completely as of 2013, how could it?!

leaving the car fully charged for as long as possible

Doesn't that violate the warranty?

 

[abasile]

With the 80% timer gone completely as of 2013, how could it?!

Well, you've got a point there...

Also, if it were a warranty violation to leave the battery fully charged for days/weeks, then technically many new LEAFs sitting on dealer lots might have warranty issues.

 

[pchilds]

I got 5 stars across the board, I charged to 100% daily for 6 of the 12 months. 100% gives me 50 miles to VLBW, 80% maybe 40 miles.

 

[Deleted member 770]

Lost my third bar yesterday. It is now a race to see if I can loose the fourth bar before I turn the car in in March... To hasten the demise of the fourth, I have turned off the charge timer and will now charge to 100% each time (I often need most of a 100% charge these days anyway with my current reduced range)...

I don't understand - if this is a lease, why do you care what condition the battery is in when you turn it in?

 

[Deleted member 770]

Sounds like ahagge's car needs to be shipped over to Phoenix for a thorough outdoor baking.

Would be better to drive it to Phoenix with multiple QC along the way. :lol:

That'd be a really time-sucking trip at 45 miles between charges (and most being level 1 or 2 at that). I'll pass...

 

[seva]

i've lost the 12th bar, 33000 miles, a charge shows 77miles but very quickly changes to 61 within 1 mile, driving 40mph very politely. ECO mode of course boosts it up. my dealer says it's because the car learns my driving style and is telling me what to expect. anyone know if he's truthful or blowing smoke?

 

[TimLee]

i've lost the 12th bar, 33000 miles, a charge shows 77miles but very quickly changes to 61 within 1 mile, driving 40mph very politely. ECO mode of course boosts it up. my dealer says it's because the car learns my driving style and is telling me what to expect. anyone know if he's truthful or blowing smoke?

Dealer is probably correct.
DTE (Distance To Empty) indicator (Nissan name) that most LEAF drivers have relabeled the Guess-O-Meter (GOM) has lots of issues.
Depending on your commute and if it ends with a downhill gradient with lots of regeneration, can be very typical to lose estimated range very quickly.
Lots of discussion about how it works at the large December 3, 2011 meeting.
See http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=6049&start=250#p155469" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.
That meeting is part of what motivated Nissan to add a % status of charge read out in 2013.
You should get LEAF Spy.
Tells the LEAF driver 500% more data than Nissan user interface will ever provide.
With it and some experience you can know a lot more about how far you can drive before empty.

You have been pretty lucky to drive a little under three years before losing first capacity bar.
I lost my first one in about half that time in Chattanooga.
And close to losing second.
Sorry for the loss.
Usable range loss does take some adjustment time.

 

[TomT]

It's a challenge. And I'd love to be able to hit Nissan for a new battery right at the end of the lease... If I could do that, I might extend my lease for a bit until some of the anticipated EVs become available. My lease payment is so low it might have a decent ROI to extend...

Lost my third bar yesterday. It is now a race to see if I can loose the fourth bar before I turn the car in in March... To hasten the demise of the fourth, I have turned off the charge timer and will now charge to 100% each time (I often need most of a 100% charge these days anyway with my current reduced range)...

I don't understand - if this is a lease, why do you care what condition the battery is in when you turn it in?

 

[abasile]

It's a challenge. And I'd love to be able to hit Nissan for a new battery right at the end of the lease... If I could do that, I might extend my lease for a bit until some of the anticipated EVs become available. My lease payment is so low it might have a decent ROI to extend...

Besides the end of your lease being in March, it looks equally like an odometer challenge. If you're at 53K miles right now, it'll probably be pretty close to 60K miles when that fourth bar drops. Keeping that lease with a new battery would be nice. Given your range loss and your desire for some spirited driving, my guess is that you might end up discharging down near turtle quite a few times, probably one of the worst things to happen to a battery... Just don't get stuck needing a tow truck!

If you do get a new battery and then decide not to extend the lease, your car will be a sweet deal for a used LEAF buyer. All that really matters to dealers buying used cars is mileage. Come to think of it, a 2011/2012 LEAF owner like myself could probably buy an older, high mileage LEAF with a replaced battery, sell a degraded LEAF that doesn't qualify for the battery warranty, and effectively get a new battery at a discount. However, if it were me, I'd want to wait another year and hold out for a used 2013 with the faster charger.

 

[TomT]

My job location moved much closer to home about a month ago so the weekly mileage on the Leaf has fallen by about 60%... So, I should be well past 4 years when I hit 60K now...

Besides the end of your lease being in March, it looks equally like an odometer challenge. If you're at 53K miles right now, it'll probably be pretty close to 60K miles when that fourth bar drops.

 

[RegGuheert]

It's a challenge. And I'd love to be able to hit Nissan for a new battery right at the end of the lease... If I could do that, I might extend my lease for a bit until some of the anticipated EVs become available. My lease payment is so low it might have a decent ROI to extend...

My job location moved much closer to home about a month ago so the weekly mileage on the Leaf has fallen by about 60%... So, I should be well past 4 years when I hit 60K now...

Given those two statements, it might make sense to renew anyway, since you are likely to get the new battery anyway. The one thing the LEAF has going for it is known-good reliability. But it certainly is much more of a gamble if it hasn't happened before lease expiration.

Would Tesla Model 3 be one of the "anticipated EVs"?

 

[TomT]

But of course!

Would Tesla Model 3 be one of the "anticipated EVs"?

 

[kennyboy]

Lost my second CB today @ 47,000 miles.

2011 LEAF in Johnson City, TN.

Still seem to get about the same number of miles per bar though (6-7).

Bars still disappear at the exact same spots along my route to work as they always have.

 

[chennu]

Portland OR- 24K miles. lost my first bar. GID count at 229. Any point calling the dealer? Or work on getting 3 more bars out in the next two years

 

[dhanson865]

Lost my second CB today @ 47,000 miles.

2011 LEAF in Johnson City, TN.

Still seem to get about the same number of miles per bar though (6-7).

Bars still disappear at the exact same spots along my route to work as they always have.

Has the car been in NE TN from day 1? Just wondering if it saw use outside of TN or not. I live near enough to you that I'd expect degradation to be similar.

 

[kennyboy]

Has the car been in NE TN from day 1?

Yes.

(well, once it made it over from Japan - it only had something like 12 miles on it when I purchased it in Johnson City, TN)

I purchased it pretty quick after it was delivered too. Someone else had actually ordered it and then backed out.

So it didn't sit on the dealer lot very long.

Looking back, it looks like I lost the first CB @ 33,345 miles and the second CB @ 47,000 miles.

 

[smkettner]

Portland OR- 24K miles. lost my first bar. GID count at 229. Any point calling the dealer? Or work on getting 3 more bars out in the next two years

No need to contact the dealer or Nissan. They know more than us as part of the annual battery check program.
Best of luck on a warranty battery.

 

[surfingslovak]

You’d think that with all the Renault-Nissan/ LG Chem news swirling around that there’s been some sort of major intel leak at The Alliance. We’re thinking that’s the case for sure. With all the specific info that’s come out over the last day, it must be some higher up, or now-departed higher up, who leaked the info to Reuters.

But wait, there’s more.

It seems that Renault-Nissan is crumbling within. The Alliance has “internal rivalries” that Reuters claims led to a fault in the development of the Nissan LEAF.

Per Reuters, citing inside sources:

“Former Nissan second-in-command Carlos Tavares, racing to beat the Renault Zoe to market, cut Leaf development by a year and skipped a critical battery redesign, according to alliance veterans. Nissan later cut prices, settled a class action and offered retroactive warranties to answer customer concerns about battery deterioration.”

This critical battery redesign is definitely referring to the LEAF’s battery performance in hot conditions. Could it be that the redesign would’ve employed liquid cooling? Or at least some form of active air cooling?

Tavares is no longer with Renault-Nissan.

Additionally, Tavares’ rival over at Renault, Patrick Pelata, “signed a confidentiality deal with LG that meant Nissan battery engineers never even knew what they were up against.”

The Renault ZOE does not suffer from heat-related battery degradation as does the early LEAFs.

Fortunately, the internal fighting within The Alliance is now being stamped out seemingly all high level execs are exiting the company(note the several high level recent departures such as Andy Palmer (Chief Planning), Carlos Tavares (Renault boss), Billy Hayes (LEAF boss), Johan de Nysschen (Infiniti boss), etc) by Renault-Nissan CEO Carlos Ghosn.

We certainly hope that, moving forward, Renault-Nissan works together to further its position as the battery-electric leaders of the world. These internal issues that lead to a not-up-to-par Nissan LEAF need to be addressed if The Alliance is to remain the world’s frontrunner in the BEV segment.

Source: Reuters

Click to open

 

[HighDesertDriver]

Lost our 3rd capacity bar last night. 46,300 miles, 190-201 Gid, 46.93 AHr. We are now charging everyday to 100% and have a local driving range of 50-55 miles at 45-60mph on city streets. (Yes, this is not downtown Los Angeles, and the high-desert roads are straight and often uncrowded.) We rarely need more than 40 miles between charges at home.

After our annual battery check a couple weeks ago (4 & 5 Stars), I asked the maintenance supervisor if they had yet done any warranty Leaf traction battery changes. His answer was "No, we've only removed one battery on a new car. The Nissan Rep was here and got inside and corrected a loose connector, and we put it back together. That's it."