Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

[JeremyW]

Lost my first bar tonight at 21,288 miles.

 

[GaslessInSeattle]

cross posting this bit from the Tesla Motor Club forum:
"It's amazing just how important temperature is. There have been sold thousands of Nissan Leafs here in Norway since 2011, and there is still not a single confirmed case of someone losing a bar. Some of the first Leafs have passed 30k miles, some are probably over 40k miles."

http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/3093-Nissan-Leaf/page195

 

[surfingslovak]

Lost my first bar tonight at 21,288 miles.

Sorry to hear, Jeremy, but it looks like it's been long coming :-(

 

[JeremyW]

Yup. Felt like a loose tooth.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

cross posting this bit from the Tesla Motor Club forum:
"It's amazing just how important temperature is. There have been sold thousands of Nissan Leafs here in Norway since 2011, and there is still not a single confirmed case of someone losing a bar. Some of the first Leafs have passed 30k miles, some are probably over 40k miles."

http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/3093-Nissan-Leaf/page195

considering the weather, they should not have lost bars anyway. Sloaty's battery degradation model pretty much proves that.
I am at 44,500 miles and will not lose a bar before ending my lease and that is normal around here. guessing Norway is a bit better than us but keep in mind; i am in Oly which has a bit of a better rating than Seattle although we are warmer in Summer and cooler in Winter generally speaking. we are so foggier so less solar radiation

 

[RegGuheert]

we are so foggier so less solar radiation

Suicide weather...yet you seem like a pretty happy guy!

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

we are so foggier so less solar radiation

Suicide weather...yet you seem like a pretty happy guy!

lots of pink lights and vitamin D!

 

[ttweed]

Lost my second bar today at 38,685 miles after 32 months in service. Been expecting it since my AHr level dropped below 52 awhile back, but thought the cool weather we've been having would perhaps delay it (wishful thinking). Readings from Leaf Spy Lite this morning showed 51.77 AHr, SOH = 78%, Hx = 60.85%, battery temps from 63.4F-66.4F, 17mV spread between high and low cells. Still only 1 5 minute QC on the car ever (just to test it), mostly 80% charging, but we've gone to 100% more often when needed due to loss of range.

TT

 

[DaveEV]

Lost my second bar today at 38,685 miles after 32 months in service. Been expecting it since my AHr level dropped below 52 awhile back, but thought the cool weather we've been having would perhaps delay it (wishful thinking). Readings from Leaf Spy Lite this morning showed 51.77 AHr, SOH = 78%, Hx = 60.85%, battery temps from 63.4F-66.4F, 17mV spread between high and low cells. Still only 1 5 minute QC on the car ever (just to test it), mostly 80% charging, but we've gone to 100% more often when needed due to loss of range.

Sorry to hear that, Tom. The good news is that at the rate you're going you should qualify for a new battery before the warranty is up since no one is seeing any flattening out of capacity loss over time. Still somewhat surprising since you live in just about the coolest area of San Diego.

7000 miles / 8 months to lose the 2nd bar and now you're having to charge to 100% more often (and perhaps the occasional QC now that a good number of them are finally showing up in San Diego) should get you to under the 4th bar to drop by 55k miles and 50 months.

 

[RegGuheert]

The good news is that at the rate you're going you should qualify for a new battery before the warranty is up since no one is seeing any flattening out of capacity loss over time.

I'm not so sure. Stoaty's model predicts the loss to be 20.1% (compared with 22% actual) and it indicates that this vehicle will be over 66,000 miles before it crosses below 70% capacity. Timing of the seasons may come into play, but it will have less impact in La Jolla than in many places.

 

[smkettner]

Lost my second bar today at 38,685 miles after 32 months in service. Been expecting it since my AHr level dropped below 52 awhile back, but thought the cool weather we've been having would perhaps delay it (wishful thinking). Readings from Leaf Spy Lite this morning showed 51.77 AHr, SOH = 78%, Hx = 60.85%, battery temps from 63.4F-66.4F, 17mV spread between high and low cells. Still only 1 5 minute QC on the car ever (just to test it), mostly 80% charging, but we've gone to 100% more often when needed due to loss of range.

TT

Get some non LRR tires, use the heat, and try to drive less miles for best shot at the warranty.

 

[abasile]

Get some non LRR tires, use the heat, and try to drive less miles for best shot at the warranty.

In the past, I went out of my way to "baby" this car for maximum battery life, by doing things like driving well below the speed limit, leaving the car home on many hot days, and going way out of my way to find shaded parking. No longer. As much as possible, within the constraints of the charge I have available, I'm now using the LEAF like a "normal" car. Even if I miss the warranty (which seems very likely), I'll have enjoyed the car more.

 

[LEAFfan]

For some odd reason I haven't lost my first bar yet. Capacity down to 55.06 Ah. Should be happening any day now, as I am approaching 2.5 years of Leaf ownership.

I'm pretty sure the reason for not losing your first bar yet is because you drive it at relatively slow speeds. That delayed me losing a bar on my 2011.

 

[mark1313]

For you people who live up in the NW of the United States and have not loss a bar as yet .. We invite you to bring your Leafs down to Phx AZ for a summer of driving fun .. We guarantee you that if you visit Phx just for one summer that you will witness the vanishing of @ least one bar if not two bars on your dash :lol:

 

[vrwl]

For some odd reason I haven't lost my first bar yet. Capacity down to 55.06 Ah. Should be happening any day now, as I am approaching 2.5 years of Leaf ownership.

I'm pretty sure the reason for not losing your first bar yet is because you drive it at relatively slow speeds. That delayed me losing a bar on my 2011.

I'm still waiting as well. My readings are currently 54.17 Ah, 82% Cap, 66.76 Hlth and that 12th bar is still showing. I've been saying "any day now" for about 2 months. :?

 

[Stoaty]

I'm still waiting as well. My readings are currently 54.17 Ah, 82% Cap, 66.76 Hlth and that 12th bar is still showing. I've been saying "any day now" for about 2 months. :?

I wonder why there is so much variation. My Leaf dipped to 54.97 yesterday, still 12 bars.

 

[vrwl]

I'm still waiting as well. My readings are currently 54.17 Ah, 82% Cap, 66.76 Hlth and that 12th bar is still showing. I've been saying "any day now" for about 2 months. :?

I wonder why there is so much variation. My Leaf dipped to 54.97 yesterday, still 12 bars.

I was really hoping there would be some level of consistency with regards to the readings and the loss of bars so we could start to chart the losses and help people determine when they are about to lose a bar. Obviously there's something else factoring into these equations. Maybe our mileage? Aren't you a low mileage driver as well?

I'm pretty sure the reason for not losing your first bar yet is because you drive it at relatively slow speeds. That delayed me losing a bar on my 2011.

I wonder how much slower the speeds have to be to factor into it? I mostly drive surface streets and my speeds vary from 25 to 60 mph for daily driving. However, I sit at a lot of lights, so my "average" speed (according to the dash readout), is generally in the 25-30 mph range. Maybe it's the average speed reading that's causing us to be able to go longer without a bar loss?

 

[TonyWilliams]

I'm still waiting as well. My readings are currently 54.17 Ah, 82% Cap, 66.76 Hlth and that 12th bar is still showing. I've been saying "any day now" for about 2 months. :?

I wonder why there is so much variation. My Leaf dipped to 54.97 yesterday, still 12 bars.

I was really hoping there would be some level of consistency with regards to the readings and the loss of bars so we could start to chart the losses and help people determine when they are about to lose a bar. Obviously there's something else factoring into these equations. Maybe our mileage? Aren't you a low mileage driver as well?

It will probably take a lawsuit (a real lawsuit, not a pure profit maker for the lawyers) to get all the parameters, and then I suspect they would just settle out of court and you'll never get that data.

 

[TomT]

+1

Plus, with about a 22% capacity loss at this point, I now regularly charge to 100% to barely be able to do what I routinely used to do at 80%... I believe that one of the reasons why most are not seeing a decrease in the rate of degradation is because they are forced to use the battery harder as degradation sets in...

In the past, I went out of my way to "baby" this car for maximum battery life, by doing things like driving well below the speed limit, leaving the car home on many hot days, and going way out of my way to find shaded parking. No longer. As much as possible, within the constraints of the charge I have available, I'm now using the LEAF like a "normal" car.

 

[smkettner]

Probably feeds off the GOM data