Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

[TomT]

I tried this and what was offered was both insulting and laughable. Even the dealer (Fontana) apologized that Nissan wouldn't do any better... Apparently there is something in California - at least as far as Nissan is concerned - regarding leases that makes it financially untenable to terminate one even if you want to immediately lease a new vehicle. You likely could do much better if you owned rather than leased and wanted to trade up... So, I'm now just resigned to turning my car in when my lease is up at which time Nissan and I will part company permanently.

I would still talk to them. wouldnt hurt to see where you stand. A dealer that knows you are getting a car from them can be very accommodating. After all a lease turn in is not the same as a trade in. not sure of the ramifications of ending a lease early (sure that will cost u some money) but might be able to get that adjusted as well.

 

[z0ner]

I felt this happening since last August, but now it's "official".

This morning I woke up to my first capacity bar *poof* gone on my 2011 SL, VIN#909. Mileage just turned over 25000.

Sorry to hear it z0ner. I know what you mean about feeling it coming. I've got 22.5 k miles and my LEAF has a similar VIN to yours and my full charge range at 4 mi/kWh has dropped to about 70 miles from the original 86, so I expect to lose a bar soon.

Do you have an estimate of your car's current range on either 80% or full charge at this point?

Thanks Boomer. Losing the bar has made my driving more conservative (4.3m/kWh versus 4.0) and increased my range anxiety, so trips have become very much planned and predictable. I've only gone down to one bar a small handful of times since March. I don't have a Gidmeter either, so I can only give you a guesstimate. At 100% without climate control, I'd estimate 65, or 70 if I really push it.

I still love the drive, but I had a parent at my daughter's school ask me about the range right off the bat. In the first 18 months of ownership I would've been a LEAF disciple, but I had to tell him truthfully the range I'm getting today after just two years. He then seemed disinterested and half-listened to other positive things I was saying about the experience.

I wonder if I would've been so enthusiastic to reserve if Nissan had advertised this from the start.

 

[leafwing]

I wonder if I would've been so enthusiastic to reserve if Nissan had advertised this from the start.

I have the same feeling which I think Nissan hasn't addressed yet.

 

[planet4ever]

Apparently there is something in California - at least as far as Nissan is concerned - regarding leases that makes it financially untenable to terminate one even if you want to immediately lease a new vehicle.

I managed to do this. Nissan Sunnyvale said my 2011 SL was worth $17K, and NMAC said it would cost $20.3K to terminate the lease, so I was $3.3K "under water". Whether there was something in CA that caused one or both of those numbers to be out of whack I don't know, but I was paying $470/mo and owed 12 more payments, so it was going to cost me 170% of the shortfall to hang on to the bitter end.

Ray

 

[smkettner]

I wonder if I would've been so enthusiastic to reserve if Nissan had advertised this from the start.

IIRC we had mostly heard 80% at five years and 70% capacity at ten years. I think most cars will fall somewhat short of those numbers. And of course that was based on 100 actual miles to start out not 80 miles. It is like we start at 80% and down from there.

I really thought all twelve capacity bars would have held for three plus years in a decent climate.

 

[JeremyW]

I was down to just 254 gids at full charge today. I think all my quick charging may be catching up to me... :?

Just a hair under 12,000 miles.

I also saw the highest cell was 4.09 and the lowest was 3.93, so I might have needed a balance. Pack temp was 24c

 

[Stoaty]

I also saw the highest cell was 4.09 and the lowest was 3.93, so I might have needed a balance. Pack temp was 24c

160 mv difference... yeah, I would say your pack needs balancing or one of the cells isn't up to snuff.

 

[TomT]

I'm paying $303 so the ROI is just not there to trade... So far, in 26 months of ownership, Nissan has done just about everything possible to convince me to never buy from them again...

I was paying $470/mo and owed 12 more payments, so it was going to cost me 170% of the shortfall to hang on to the bitter end.

 

[DaveEV]

I also saw the highest cell was 4.09 and the lowest was 3.93, so I might have needed a balance. Pack temp was 24c

160 mv difference... yeah, I would say your pack needs balancing or one of the cells isn't up to snuff.

Definitely, that's huge at 100% and definitely could be significantly limiting usability. How often do you charge to 100%, Jeremy? What are your charging habits?

Screenshots/logs of your car's cell-pair voltages using Turbo3's LEAF Battery app at 100%, 80%, LBW and VLBW would definitely be interesting.

 

[Pipcecil]

I was quite dissapointed over the weekend making a supposedly easy trip turned to nail biting. Beautiful 68+ degrees, light wind, no major elevation changes (its texas) and I managed only 50 miles with 4 miles to spare on GOM (guessing to VLBW since I was in the middle of LBW) driving some back roads going about 50-55 with 2 capacity bars down. Pretty depressing when I can only go 55 miles on the car when that same trip at new I could get home with 4 bars and 20+ miles remaining easily.

Is it bad I hope someone hits my car and totals it? I expected the range to increase as the spring and summer arrived in Texas, but I am getting worse range than I was during the winter time. I think I am due for my third capacity bar to poof.

 

[TomT]

And Nissan still continues to spout that that is perfectly normal!!! It is one of the reasons why I finally decided to no longer recommend the Leaf to anyone in my area unless it is on a short lease. Even then, I make them aware of the pitfalls...

I was quite dissapointed over the weekend making a supposedly easy trip turned to nail biting. Beautiful 68+ degrees, light wind, no major elevation changes (its texas) and I managed only 50 miles with 4 miles to spare on GOM (guessing to VLBW since I was in the middle of LBW) driving some back roads going about 50-55 with 2 capacity bars down. Pretty depressing when I can only go 55 miles on the car when that same trip at new I could get home with 4 bars and 20+ miles remaining easily.

 

[Stoaty]

And Nissan still continues to spout that that is perfectly normal!!! It is one of the reasons why I finally decided to no longer recommend the Leaf to anyone in my area unless it is on a short lease.

I think it is also a good choice for anyone who plans to keep it on a short leash. :lol:

 

[cwerdna]

A Priuschatter I know (and Facebook friend) who lives in the Phoenix area commented about a forecasted 99 F temp this weekend. From http://www.weather.com/weather/tenday/Phoenix+AZ+USAZ0166:1:US" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, yep, that sounds about right. (For future reference, here are forecasted highs for 4/27/13 thru 5/4/13: 97, 100, 101, 99, 98, 99, 99, 99).

It'll be interesting to see how many capacity bars Phoenicians lose a few months from now... and how many newer Leafs there lose their 1st one while entering their 2nd summer.

there has been more than few hybrid owners in the area that also had battery issues. were all those within warranties? anyone know if anyone had out of pocket repairs?

I don't recall OTOH. Unfortunately, AZ and TX aren't CARB emission states, so yeah, if Prius HV batteries failed after 8 year/100K miles, they'd be out of warranty. There definitely seemed to be correlation w/earlier failure and high temps and/or commutes w/significant hills.

CA and CARB states get the 10 year/150K mile warranty on the HV battery on the 2004+ Priuses and other AT-PZEV hybrids.

 

[surfingslovak]

There is a second reported case of capacity bar loss in the Bay Area. It's a 2011 LEAF with an early delivery date. 35,700 miles on the odometer.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

We lost our first bar today here in FL at 17642 miles, 17 months since delivery (2012 SV).

We've tried to be careful with the battery even though it's a lease, although not to the point of obsession. Charged to 80% on weekends and 100% on weekdays but with driving starting ~1 hour after completion so not sitting too long at 100%. Any time we went away the car was left at ~50%.

 

[Joeviocoe]

We lost our first bar today here in FL at 17642 miles, 17 months since delivery (2012 SV).

We've tried to be careful with the battery even though it's a lease, although not to the point of obsession. Charged to 80% on weekends and 100% on weekdays but with driving starting ~1 hour after completion so not sitting too long at 100%. Any time we went away the car was left at ~50%.

Added to the Tracking wiki...

Feel free to add a Nissan case number when you can.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

Feel free to add a Nissan case number when you can.

Sorry I haven't been following this too closely, are we supposed to call customer service and report lost bar(s)? Don't they collect that info from carwings anyway?

FWIW this car has only been through one Florida summer, it's only just now starting to warm up here.

 

[Weatherman]

Sorry I haven't been following this too closely, are we supposed to call customer service and report lost bar(s)?

Probably not worth the effort, at this point.

Everything I’ve seen suggests South Florida LEAF owners should not expect to see 20,000 miles without losing a capacity bar, first. Losing the first bar at 17,642 puts you right on schedule.

 

[Joeviocoe]

Sorry I haven't been following this too closely, are we supposed to call customer service and report lost bar(s)?

Probably not worth the effort, at this point.

Everything I’ve seen suggests South Florida LEAF owners should not expect to see 20,000 miles without losing a capacity bar, first. Losing the first bar at 17,642 puts you right on schedule.

Of course it is worth the effort to make a phone call.
If the battery starts to tank faster, and you start losing capacity faster... as unlikely as it may be... you will want to have Nissan know about the first indication.

And even if it doesn't get much worse for this one customer... Nissan could certainly deal with getting as many formal complaints as possible, so that they will think harder about an active TMS in the future.

 

[KJD]

Sorry I haven't been following this too closely, are we supposed to call customer service and report lost bar(s)?

Probably not worth the effort, at this point.

Have to disagree with this 100%.

If we want Nissan to ever fix this problem, the first thing to do is let them know the problem exists.

Please do call the customer support line and complain.