Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

[ALLWATZ]

Just looked at the NHTSA web site and only 7 of us have filed a complaint out of the 50+ cars that have reported capacity loss issues! Come on guys!! Take a moment and fill out the form. As per their statement online "Before initiating an investigation, NHTSA carefully reviews the body of consumer complaints and other available data to determine whether a defect trend may exist." 7 out of 50+ does not a body make. :x If only 7 Pinto owners had complained, we'd all be driving around with gas tanks strapped to our rears.

 

[shrink]

i suggested they install a QC network (would need like what? 3-4 for Phoenix) and allow free access to all LEAF owners who had the degraded vehicles.

i am guessing the actual station could make that determination and not bill them. any LEAF could charge but ones not seeing degradation would pay the normal rate

Good idea but that wouldn't help LEAFs without a QC port. Also, I'm not sure how well a QC can identify vehicles. The L2 Blinks cannot determine whether my Volt or LEAF is plugged in. Do any other EV's have a QC port? MiEV, perhaps? Even then, I think a QC just identifies SOC, not battery capacity.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

You also run into the issue of a QC in high ambient temps. Never with my sold 2011, but with my leased 2012, I QC a few weeks ago during our string of 100 days. Started at 7 temp bars, finished with 9.

But, hey - that's still "normal" on the temp gauge, right? So glad it's just a 24-mo lease. Too bad a TMS couldn't cool the battery during the charge.

 

[shrink]

Just looked at the NHTSA web site and only 7 of us have filed a complaint out of the 50+ cars that have reported capacity loss issues! Come on guys!! Take a moment and fill out the form. As per their statement online "Before initiating an investigation, NHTSA carefully reviews the body of consumer complaints and other available data to determine whether a defect trend may exist." 7 out of 50+ does not a body make. :x If only 7 Pinto owners had complained, we'd all be driving around with gas tanks strapped to our rears.

I filed a NHTSA complaint on the car with one lost capacity bar that I sold.

 

[ALLWATZ]

Just looked at the NHTSA web site and only 7 of us have filed a complaint out of the 50+ cars that have reported capacity loss issues! Come on guys!! Take a moment and fill out the form. As per their statement online "Before initiating an investigation, NHTSA carefully reviews the body of consumer complaints and other available data to determine whether a defect trend may exist." 7 out of 50+ does not a body make. :x If only 7 Pinto owners had complained, we'd all be driving around with gas tanks strapped to our rears.

I filed a NHTSA complaint on the car with one lost capacity bar that I sold.

Must be one of the 7 I just saw. Thank you

 

[GregH]

Everyone is focused on the lost capacity but at some point the lost capacity results in increased internal resistance in the cells and insufficient power for safe street use. I'm assuming that Nissan has something in place that shuts down the car when that happens. If Leaf owners indeed have experienced a 30% capacity loss they should be getting close to the point.

Anyone know if this happens and, if it does, how this would work?

As the pack degrades the internal resistance will certainly go up... I doubt it would be enough for you to notice on anything but the most aggressive accelerations. I'd be more concerned with how much heat this will generate!! It would seem to me a downward spiral.. hot cells increase impedance, increased impedance makes hot cells! There are surely ways to query the BMS via CAN to get the cars own estimate of cell by cell impedance (and voltages)... anyone out there know the CAN transactions needed? (and willing to share) Alternatively you could just do a full throttle acceleration at a known SOC and note the max current and pack voltage deflection. It might be interesting to get those numbers for some of the Phoenix folks. hmmm.. I'll have to try this myself.

 

[dsh]

Does anybody have access to a VIN database to see who the previous owner was for my LEAF? Wanting info to see if I can obtain any info. from previous owner re: charging habits, etc. If you do, you can send me a private message and I will respond with my VIN.

 

[TomT]

Unlike the Pinto, I have a hard time qualifying this as a safety defect... That is why I have not filed a complaint with them.

Just looked at the NHTSA web site and only 7 of us have filed a complaint out of the 50+ cars that have reported capacity loss issues! Come on guys!! Take a moment and fill out the form. As per their statement online "Before initiating an investigation, NHTSA carefully reviews the body of consumer complaints and other available data to determine whether a defect trend may exist." 7 out of 50+ does not a body make. :x If only 7 Pinto owners had complained, we'd all be driving around with gas tanks strapped to our rears.

 

[Herm]

Unlike the Pinto, I have a hard time qualifying this as a safety defect... That is why I have not filed a complaint with them.

If the battery shuts down on the highway it will lock up the transmission into park, you wont be able to push it to the side of the road.. IIRC from what someone mentioned in the forum.

 

[ALLWATZ]

Unlike the Pinto, I have a hard time qualifying this as a safety defect... That is why I have not filed a complaint with them.

Just looked at the NHTSA web site and only 7 of us have filed a complaint out of the 50+ cars that have reported capacity loss issues! Come on guys!! Take a moment and fill out the form. As per their statement online "Before initiating an investigation, NHTSA carefully reviews the body of consumer complaints and other available data to determine whether a defect trend may exist." 7 out of 50+ does not a body make. :x If only 7 Pinto owners had complained, we'd all be driving around with gas tanks strapped to our rears.

Once again, doesn't have to be a safety defect. Go ahead, put your tax dollars to work! What's the worst that could happen?

 

[TonyWilliams]

I was wondering if those who may have been successful with 1 and 3 could specify how they proceeded that brought some degree of reparation.

I have links to many of this issues in my summary.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Does anybody have access to a VIN database to see who the previous owner was for my LEAF? Wanting info to see if I can obtain any info. from previous owner re: charging habits, etc. If you do, you can send me a private message and I will respond with my VIN.

Isn't your VIN end in "001069" ? We don't need the rest to identify the car.

 

[dsh]

Correct, VIN ends in 001069...How does one find out who was the previouos owner?

 

[Nubo]

Does anybody have access to a VIN database to see who the previous owner was for my LEAF? Wanting info to see if I can obtain any info. from previous owner re: charging habits, etc. If you do, you can send me a private message and I will respond with my VIN.

Yeah, look up that Service Manager who came here to tell us what a-holes LEAF owners are, and how they're intentionally mistreated at his dealership. :lol:

 

[cwerdna]

Unlike the Pinto, I have a hard time qualifying this as a safety defect... That is why I have not filed a complaint with them.

Just looked at the NHTSA web site and only 7 of us have filed a complaint out of the 50+ cars that have reported capacity loss issues! Come on guys!! Take a moment and fill out the form. As per their statement online "Before initiating an investigation, NHTSA carefully reviews the body of consumer complaints and other available data to determine whether a defect trend may exist." 7 out of 50+ does not a body make. :x If only 7 Pinto owners had complained, we'd all be driving around with gas tanks strapped to our rears.

Once again, doesn't have to be a safety defect. Go ahead, put your tax dollars to work! What's the worst that could happen?

Again, the National Highway Traffic SAFETY Administration doesn't seem like the proper place for NON-SAFETY complaints. We already went thru this before.

For those who missed the earlier dialogue on this, see these, for example:
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=219341#p219341" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=219350#p219350" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=219371#p219371" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=219321#p219321" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It seems ALLWATZ himself has been able to provide any proof that one should be filing NON-SAFETY complaints w/NHTSA.

I think your time and effort would be better spent filing complaints w/Consumer Reports, BBB, state attorney general, etc. and government bodies that relate to consumer protection than to a SAFETY organization. If you begin to try to fill out a form w/NHTSA, you'll notice the form and help has SAFETY mentioned numerous times.

This battery premature degradation is not a safety issue. If you have a SAFETY issue/SAFETY defect, by all means, definitely do submit such a complaint.

 

[ALLWATZ]

Just looked at the NHTSA web site and only 7 of us have filed a complaint out of the 50+ cars that have reported capacity loss issues! Come on guys!! Take a moment and fill out the form. As per their statement online "Before initiating an investigation, NHTSA carefully reviews the body of consumer complaints and other available data to determine whether a defect trend may exist." 7 out of 50+ does not a body make. :x If only 7 Pinto owners had complained, we'd all be driving around with gas tanks strapped to our rears.

It seems ALLWATZ himself has been able to provide any proof that one should be filing NON-SAFETY complaints w/NHTSA.

I think your time and effort would be better spent filing complaints w/Consumer Reports, BBB, state attorney general, etc. and government bodies that relate to consumer protection than to a SAFETY organization. If you begin to try to fill out a form w/NHTSA, you'll notice the form and help has SAFETY mentioned numerous times.

This coming from someone who is taking the time and effort to guide those of us who took the time and effort to actually buy a Nissan Leaf. Remember you stated in a previous reply (oddly enough, one you didn't list) that you don't own a Leaf.

 

[cwerdna]

Just looked at the NHTSA web site and only 7 of us have filed a complaint out of the 50+ cars that have reported capacity loss issues! Come on guys!! Take a moment and fill out the form. As per their statement online "Before initiating an investigation, NHTSA carefully reviews the body of consumer complaints and other available data to determine whether a defect trend may exist." 7 out of 50+ does not a body make. :x If only 7 Pinto owners had complained, we'd all be driving around with gas tanks strapped to our rears.

It seems ALLWATZ himself has been able to provide any proof that one should be filing NON-SAFETY complaints w/NHTSA.

I think your time and effort would be better spent filing complaints w/Consumer Reports, BBB, state attorney general, etc. and government bodies that relate to consumer protection than to a SAFETY organization. If you begin to try to fill out a form w/NHTSA, you'll notice the form and help has SAFETY mentioned numerous times.

This coming from someone who is taking the time and effort to guide those of us who took the time and effort to actually buy a Nissan Leaf. Remember you stated in a previous reply (oddly enough, one you didn't list) that you don't own a Leaf.

I don't own a Leaf. It's always been in my sig. I've repeated my story as to why I don't own one and haven't leased one yet many times. I've listed some at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=161631#p161631" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=211780#p211780" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

There are many things that could've changed that such as better lease transfer terms, actually working in a job that seems permanent, Leaf having ~150 miles range as rated by the EPA (would get around the prob of it limiting future job choices, etc.)

Once I'm working again and am comfortable that the job seems permanent, if the workplace is in range, I plan to lease a Leaf.

This still doesn't change the fact that NHTSA doesn't seem like the proper place to file non-safety complaints. If you provided evidence on their site that it is and that the safety complaint form is the proper place to do it...

 

[derkraut]

ya, having to pay for a QC daily would be tough especially if you have solar to burn at home. there is another thread that asked what Nissan should do about the people affected by range loss, i suggested they install a QC network (would need like what? 3-4 for Phoenix) and allow free access to all LEAF owners who had the degraded vehicles.

i am guessing the actual station could make that determination and not bill them. any LEAF could charge but ones not seeing degradation would pay the normal rate

We have 4 QC now. But I would like 20 QC's

Gonewild: Why would you want 20 QC's if you no longer drive a LEAF?? :? :?

 

[derkraut]

Unlike the Pinto, I have a hard time qualifying this as a safety defect... That is why I have not filed a complaint with them.

If the battery shuts down on the highway it will lock up the transmission into park, you wont be able to push it to the side of the road.. IIRC from what someone mentioned in the forum.

Where in the world did you come up with that? UH--someone mentioned it on the Forum, so it's gospel? :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

 

[shrink]

This still doesn't change the fact that NHTSA doesn't seem like the proper place to file non-safety complaints. If you provided evidence on their site that it is and that the safety complaint form is the proper place to do it...

This presentation is on the NHTSA website:

http://www.nhtsa.gov/pdf/ev/Nissan_Presentation-Bob_Yakushi.pptx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Slide 12:

Slide 19:

I don't understand why you're so caught up on this either. It takes less than 5 minutes to file a compliant. If NHTSA does not consider it a relevant matter, then so be it. No harm, no foul. What do you gain from discouraging people?

However, the NHTSA clearly has an interest in the issue.

 

[shrink]

Unlike the Pinto, I have a hard time qualifying this as a safety defect... That is why I have not filed a complaint with them.

If the battery shuts down on the highway it will lock up the transmission into park, you wont be able to push it to the side of the road.. IIRC from what someone mentioned in the forum.

Where in the world did you come up with that? UH--someone mentioned it on the Forum, so it's gospel? :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

The following has been cut and pasted from a complaint filed on the NHTSA website on 6/16/2012 (sorry for the CAPS. That's how it's presented on the site):

ABOUT A MONTH AND A HALF AGO, I PURCHASED A 2011 NISSAN LEAF FROM MY LOCAL DEALER. EVERYTHING WAS GOING GREAT UNTIL ABOUT A MONTH AGO WHEN I WAS DRIVING ON THE HIGHWAY AROUND 20 MPH OR SO WHEN THE POWER SUDDENLY SHUT OFF. THE ENTIRE DASHBOARD INSTANTLY WENT OFF BUT THE RADIO+TOUCHSCREEN REMAINED ON. THE CAR CAME TO A CRAWL AND I WAS ABLE TO PULL OVER AND RESTART WITHOUT ANY PROBLEMS. IT WAS A LITTLE SCARY TO SAY THE LEAST. I CALLED THE DEALERSHIP WHERE I BOUGHT THE CAR FROM AND LEFT A VOICE MAIL FOR THE SERVICE DEPT. SINCE IT WAS SATURDAY BUT NEVER RECEIVED A CALL BACK. I KIND OF SHRUGGED IT OFF THAT DAY THINKING IT MIGHT HAVE JUST BEEN A QUIRK SO I DIDN'T FOLLOW UP WITH THE DEALER. ABOUT A WEEK AND A HALF AGO, I WAS PULLING INTO A PARKING LOT GOING AROUND 10 MPH AND THE SAME THING HAPPENED. I CALLED THE DEALERSHIP AND TOOK IT IN THE NEXT DAY. THEY'VE HAD THE CAR FOR ABOUT A WEEK AND SAID THAT NISSAN TOLD THEM TO DRIVE IT AND TRY REPRODUCING THE PROBLEM. I DIDN'T EXPECT THEM TO REPRODUCE IT SINCE IT HAS ONLY HAPPENED TWICE WITHIN WEEKS. AS EXPECTED, THEY COULDN'T REPRODUCE IT SO I WAS TOLD THAT I WOULD HAVE TO TAKE THE CAR BACK SINCE THEY COULDN'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT. I AM TAKING THE LEAF BACK TOMORROW TO START DRIVING AGAIN BUT DEFINITELY HAVE CONCERNS SINCE MY WIFE ALSO DRIVES THE CAR AND WHO KNOWS WHAT SHE WOULD DO IN A SHUT-OFF WHILE DRIVING SITUATION. LUCKILY, THE PAST TWO INCIDENTS WERE NOT IN HIGH SPEEDS AND I WAS ABLE TO REACT QUICKLY. MY WORST NIGHTMARE WOULD BE IF WE GOT REAR ENDED DUE TO INSTANTLY LOSING POWER. I HAVE CALLED NISSAN DIRECTLY TO LET THEM KNOW ABOUT MY CAR BUT NO ONE HAS CALLED ME BACK. I ASSUME THEY WERE ALREADY IN TOUCH WITH THE DEALER. I DON'T LIKE THE FACT THAT I AM BEING HANDED THE CAR BACK AT A POTENTIAL SAFETY RISK. *TR