Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

[derkraut]

My garage had been averaging about 89 degrees during this period and that is with an insulated garage door and a turbine roof vent...

Ditch that turbine roof vent for regular one - the turbine ones vent less air than static vents.

LBW is at 49 GIDs according to Tony's range chart and that is about 17% of capacity.
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You could then make some estimates about how much is lost during the charge process and estimate how much actually went into the battery. This would get you fairly close, but it would be best to measure it with a GID meter.

GID readings have already been shown to vary according to temperature, so can not be relied upon except under very similar battery temperatures.

For a San Diego LEAF over 1 year old, based on my own LBW-80% and then 80%-100% Blink readings, I'd expect a bit over 13 kWh from LBW to 80% and 4.0-4.9 kWh from 80-100% or ~17-18kWh from LBW to 100% from the wall. Let's see if it matches up!

Well Drees, you hit it on the button; it took 17KW (on the SDGE meter) to charge to 100%. My garage temp is 75 degrees, and my "accurate" GOM :lol: reads 90. I have about 70 miles to drive today, about 50% freeway speeds, rest in residential streets, A/C will be on. Driver and two passengers. See if I can make it.

Well, I drove 62 miles today, mostly 60mph & less, half freeway, half surface streets, lots of uphill/downhill, but no severe grades, ran A/C @ 78 degrees. 3 persons in the car. I pulled into my garage with 2 bars, 23 on the GOM. My dash says 4.5MPK. Seems like this is about the same as when the car was new. I certainly have no complaints with this trip.

 

[Gonewild]

I love my car but I have to drive far and do not want to pay for quick charge every day after Dec 31. That will cost as much as the gas I am saving almost but I would not have a car payment as well.

really?? how much is your QC cost? we still have been provided not a single shred of info

My guess is that it will cost about $5 as the blink charge per hr is $1.50 right?

Now I have been checking the trade in of the car and the price of the car is dropping in AZ and maybe USA like a rock. From $22,000 to Carmax $19,000 and Autonation $16,600. And Midway Nissan AZ $18,800.

This cost to charge + the $15,500 end of lease to buy the car + $2,000 in sales taxes along is more then the car is worth at this point. Now add the next 18 months payments of $414 to get to the end of the lease tells me to SELL SELL as fast as I can.

It does not make sense to keep paying on a car that is dropping like this. Time to cut and run. I will buy BEV with a TMS be it Ford that looks nicer or a 2014 Nissan Leaf. I will have to wait and see. It was amazing to charge my car a home with my Solar panels and save about $200 a month in gas.

 

[surfingslovak]

Now I have been checking the trade in of the car and the price of the car is dropping in AZ and maybe USA like a rock. From $22,000 to Carmax $19,000 and Autonation $16,600. And Midway Nissan AZ $18,800.

Where are you looking to check resale prices?

 

[SanDust]

Everyone is focused on the lost capacity but at some point the lost capacity results in increased internal resistance in the cells and insufficient power for safe street use. I'm assuming that Nissan has something in place that shuts down the car when that happens. If Leaf owners indeed have experienced a 30% capacity loss they should be getting close to the point.

Anyone know if this happens and, if it does, how this would work?

 

[RegGuheert]

I'm assuming that Nissan has something in place that shuts down the car when that happens.

I'm expecting you will just lose power circles. I think I could lose quite a few power circles before I would deem the LEAF undriveable.

 

[Volusiano]

I thought the battery has the 8 year/100K miles warranty for lack of power output, no? So if the capacity loss is severe enough to cause lack of full power output, shouldn't the warranty kick in by then if it's still within the 8 year/100K miles range?

 

[LEAFfan]

I will buy BEV with a TMS be it Ford that looks nicer or a 2014 Nissan Leaf. I will have to wait and see. It was amazing to charge my car a home with my Solar panels and save about $200 a month in gas.

You won't be buying a FFEV because that isn't going to be sold in AZ. It's just a compliance car and very few are going to be produced.

 

[myleaf]

I just lost my second bar. Aug 22, 2012 14,900 miles

case number 922-3742

Based on my measurements,

I loss my first bar at about 230 Gids
I loss my second bar at about 210 Gids

Is it a reasonable estimate that the 3rd bar will be lost at ~190 Gids ??

 

[RegGuheert]

I thought the battery has the 8 year/100K miles warranty for lack of power output, no?

Just because Mark Perry says something doesn't make it so. Is there something in the warranty booklet that says you can make a warranty claim if you start to lose power bubbles? I don't recall seeing that.

So if the capacity loss is severe enough to cause lack of full power output, shouldn't the warranty kick in by then if it's still within the 8 year/100K miles range?

I seriously doubt it. That would be like trying to make a claim on an ICE car because it does not produce the full horsepower it had when it was new.

 

[azdre]

I thought the battery has the 8 year/100K miles warranty for lack of power output, no? So if the capacity loss is severe enough to cause lack of full power output, shouldn't the warranty kick in by then if it's still within the 8 year/100K miles range?

I would think so (not for some power loss, but for freeway-speed power loss), but if I lose another 10 miles of range, the car will be parked in the garage and I'll have to drive something else each day. I'm not sure the battery would degrade enough to be warrantied if you're not able to put many miles on the car. It looks like it might still degrade, just not as quickly with less use.

 

[Gonewild]

That is why I am getting rid of my Leaf. The range is just not going to work over the next few year to keep making payments.

 

[jspearman]

Hooray, I'm on page 300!

I think I sue Nissan once we get to page 500 of this thread.

 

[Gonewild]

Hooray, I'm on page 300!

I think I sue Nissan once we get to page 500 of this thread.

I am going to SUE Nissan

 

[leiko49]

I recently had a bar capacity loss and reported it here.

I have some questions about what to do with the fact that I am not able at this time to drive to my routine destinations for which I purchased the vehicle, and that over the next 12 months, this is likely to become much worse.

I understand that Nissan has recently evaluated cars in Arizona with capacity loss, and has sent out a public letter assuring owners that “we will make you whole”, but as of yet they have not yet made a determination or plan of action.

As I understand it, some owners have reported here that Nissan has already taken measures for some significant reparations e.g., full battery pack replacement, in some cases more than once. There are several potential solutions including this that come to mind including this, which are
1. replacement of battery pack
2. addition of cooling system to battery, though perhaps not yet available
3. for lease owners, the ability to end a lease early without penalties

It is unclear to me what I might do as a leaser at this point to advocate for one of the above options, though this may have been addressed somewhere in this lengthy forum. While I understand that option 2 above may not yet be available, I was wondering if those who may have been successful with 1 and 3 could specify how they proceeded that brought some degree of reparation.

I have called the hotline, and am aware that the reps are only taking information “for the record”, at this time.
If my request is off topic, perhaps someone could give me direction where to address my questions.

 

[shrink]

Hooray, I'm on page 300!

I think I sue Nissan once we get to page 500 of this thread.

300!

Spartan Army: HA-OOH! HA-OOH! HA-OOH!
Dilios: The enemy outnumber us a paltry three to one, good odds for any Greek. This day we rescue a world from mysticism and tyranny and usher in a future brighter than anything we can imagine.
[puts on his helmet]
Dilios: Give thanks, men, to Leonidas and the brave 300! TO VICTORY!

 

[Gonewild]

Call NMAC as I did and say you want to cancel your lease, it is a simple as that. My cost to get out was $429 others where $600 something.

You setup the inpection of the car at AIM Nmac will give you there phone number.


The sooner the better because the car is dropping in price and you will have to pay the difference.

 

[shrink]

The sooner the better because the car is dropping in price and you will have to pay the difference.

I sold my 2011 with 1-lost capacity bar and 10,300 miles on 6/26/2012 for $25,000. No way it would fetch that price now.

 

[surfingslovak]

I'm not sure the battery would degrade enough to be warrantied if you're not able to put many miles on the car. It looks like it might still degrade, just not as quickly with less use.

azdre, we cannot be 100% sure, but there is some indication that if this trend continued unabated, the battery would degrade at a fairly high clip even if the Leaf was just sitting in an average Phoenix garage.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

ya, having to pay for a QC daily would be tough especially if you have solar to burn at home. there is another thread that asked what Nissan should do about the people affected by range loss, i suggested they install a QC network (would need like what? 3-4 for Phoenix) and allow free access to all LEAF owners who had the degraded vehicles.

i am guessing the actual station could make that determination and not bill them. any LEAF could charge but ones not seeing degradation would pay the normal rate

 

[Gonewild]

ya, having to pay for a QC daily would be tough especially if you have solar to burn at home. there is another thread that asked what Nissan should do about the people affected by range loss, i suggested they install a QC network (would need like what? 3-4 for Phoenix) and allow free access to all LEAF owners who had the degraded vehicles.

i am guessing the actual station could make that determination and not bill them. any LEAF could charge but ones not seeing degradation would pay the normal rate

We have 4 QC now. But I would like 20 QC's