Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

[derkraut]

Since my question is about capacity loss, I'll post it here: (I don't have a GID meter)

1. I have a separate SDGE meter for charging the LEAF.
2. Just as I pulled into the driveway this afternoon, the LBW came on, showing 1 bar and 8 miles on the GOM.
3. I copied down the reading on my SDGE meter.
4. I set the car timer to 100% and plugged in. Tonight, I will charge to 100% from midnight to 7AM on the LEAF timer.
5. Garage temp will be about 70-75 degrees during that time.

When I check the SDGE meter tomorrow to see how much juice went into the battery, will that give me an accurate idea if I have any capacity loss?

Thanks in advance for your response.

derkraut

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

I am afraid not. The GOM simply does not tell us enough

 

[surfingslovak]

I am afraid not. The GOM simply does not tell us enough

He was exactly at LBW, which implies 49 Gids. This value does not seem to change as the battery degrades. Didn't TickTock track the Wh value per Gid from the wall? If memory serves, it was 88 or 89 Wh. It varies a bit, which will affect the accuracy of the result. This means that if derkraut measured 18.1 kWh from the wall, his total Gid count would be 49 Gids + 18,100 Wh / 88 Wh/Gid = 255 Gids when assuming a 100% charge. Oh, and I hope you don't mind me saying, I really like your nick, but it's das Kraut

 

[KJD]

LBW is at 49 GIDs according to Tony's range chart and that is about 17% of capacity.
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=101293#p101293" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
You could then make some estimates about how much is lost during the charge process and estimate how much actually went into the battery. This would get you fairly close, but it would be best to measure it with a GID meter. For example say if the charger runs for 7 hours you would loose 7 * 500 = 3500 whr or 3.5kwh.

Since my question is about capacity loss, I'll post it here: (I don't have a GID meter)

1. I have a separate SDGE meter for charging the LEAF.
2. Just as I pulled into the driveway this afternoon, the LBW came on, showing 1 bar and 8 miles on the GOM.
3. I copied down the reading on my SDGE meter.
4. I set the car timer to 100% and plugged in. Tonight, I will charge to 100% from midnight to 7AM on the LEAF timer.
5. Garage temp will be about 70-75 degrees during that time.

When I check the SDGE meter tomorrow to see how much juice went into the battery, will that give me an accurate idea if I have any capacity loss?

Thanks in advance for your response.

derkraut

 

[mark1313]

Im beginning to think that those battery checks are nothing more then a JOKE..I loss 2 bars right after my 2nd battery check..

I had a similar exchange with my dealer and he made a point to say the five star rating I had had nothing to do with the state of the battery pack. He said it was solely a measure of my driving habits. I was charging and driving in the optimal way, but other factors (high temps) could reduce capacity and I would still get the five stars.

 

[DaveEV]

My garage had been averaging about 89 degrees during this period and that is with an insulated garage door and a turbine roof vent...

Ditch that turbine roof vent for regular one - the turbine ones vent less air than static vents.

LBW is at 49 GIDs according to Tony's range chart and that is about 17% of capacity.
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=101293#p101293" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
You could then make some estimates about how much is lost during the charge process and estimate how much actually went into the battery. This would get you fairly close, but it would be best to measure it with a GID meter.

GID readings have already been shown to vary according to temperature, so can not be relied upon except under very similar battery temperatures.

For a San Diego LEAF over 1 year old, based on my own LBW-80% and then 80%-100% Blink readings, I'd expect a bit over 13 kWh from LBW to 80% and 4.0-4.9 kWh from 80-100% or ~17-18kWh from LBW to 100% from the wall. Let's see if it matches up!

 

[derkraut]

My garage had been averaging about 89 degrees during this period and that is with an insulated garage door and a turbine roof vent...

Ditch that turbine roof vent for regular one - the turbine ones vent less air than static vents.

LBW is at 49 GIDs according to Tony's range chart and that is about 17% of capacity.
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=101293#p101293" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
You could then make some estimates about how much is lost during the charge process and estimate how much actually went into the battery. This would get you fairly close, but it would be best to measure it with a GID meter.

GID readings have already been shown to vary according to temperature, so can not be relied upon except under very similar battery temperatures.

For a San Diego LEAF over 1 year old, based on my own LBW-80% and then 80%-100% Blink readings, I'd expect a bit over 13 kWh from LBW to 80% and 4.0-4.9 kWh from 80-100% or ~17-18kWh from LBW to 100% from the wall. Let's see if it matches up!

Well Drees, you hit it on the button; it took 17KW (on the SDGE meter) to charge to 100%. My garage temp is 75 degrees, and my "accurate" GOM :lol: reads 90. I have about 70 miles to drive today, about 50% freeway speeds, rest in residential streets, A/C will be on. Driver and two passengers. See if I can make it.

 

[ztanos]

Ahh, the 60's... I dream of temps in the 60's.

Not I! The 60's here in the winter is too cold. When it's dry (low humidity), 70's and 80's is ideal. With your humidity, those temps wouldn't be very comfortable.

67 degrees this morning here in Atlanta with plenty of humidity. Felt great after last months 105.

 

[ALLWATZ]

I remember reading this also, way back when the car was new. The fact that they state, it should maintain 80% capacity after 5 years normal operation and that the number may be higher or lower depending on usage and care, indicates to me that charging to 100% should result in the normal range and should not be a factor in excessive capacity loss. Nissan chose to set the default setting to 100% (and greatly advertise the mileage from that amount of charge) so therefore they recognize this as being the norm.

By the way, in the original 2011 manual, on page CH-21:

LONG LIFE MODE
NISSAN recommends charging the Li-ion battery using the long life mode to help maximize the Li-ion battery useful life. Long life mode can only be set using the charging timer function. The long life mode is set by changing the [%Charge] to [80% Charge (Improves Battery Longevity)] using the following procedure...

When we look at the Long Life Mode from the manual, this obviously indicates how owners can improve upon the 80% initial capacity rule and not just meet the normal loss. Once again, as Nissan has stated previously about the 80% being higher or lower depending, if the Long Life Mode doesn't get you to a higher percentage then they should have set this as a default and stated only that quick charging would lead to early degridation.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

I am afraid not. The GOM simply does not tell us enough

He was exactly at LBW, which implies 49 Gids. This value does not seem to change as the battery degrades. Didn't TickTock track the Wh value per Gid from the wall? If memory serves, it was 88 or 89 Wh. It varies a bit, which will affect the accuracy of the result. This means that if derkraut measured 18.1 kWh from the wall, his total Gid count would be 49 Gids + 18,100 Wh / 88 Wh/Gid = 255 Gids when assuming a 100% charge. Oh, and I hope you don't mind me saying, I really like your nick, but it's das Kraut

i would definitely use it as a guideline. my last charge records (i do have a GID Meter) in reverse chronological order

272, 267, 270, 263, 267, 266, 275

which one should i use?

 

[Nubo]

...
if you went 70 mph on the freeway, which many of us won't do anyway because of range implications, the power draw from the battery would be around 24 kW or 1C. That's still pretty conservative as far as batteries go. If memory serves, power draw at 87 mph is about 40 kWh or less than 2C, which is OK as well. Is it conceivable that the dealer tech was confused or did not know what he was talking about? ...

:lol:

 

[myleaf]

I just lost my second bar. Aug 22, 2012 14,900 miles

 

[myleaf]

I just lost my second bar. Aug 22, 2012 14,900 miles

case number 922-3742

 

[Gonewild]

I just lost my second bar. Aug 22, 2012 14,900 miles

case number 922-3742

If you Leased just call and cancel the lease wail the getting is good.

 

[myleaf]

I just lost my second bar. Aug 22, 2012 14,900 miles

case number 922-3742

If you Leased just call and cancel the lease wail the getting is good.

I did not lease, because I did not want Nissan to possibly take the Leaf away at the end of the lease period.

I still love the car, I have short commute and Blink recently installed L2/L3 Chargers next to my office. But the rapidly decreasing range is very disconcerting.

 

[Gonewild]

I love my car but I have to drive far and do not want to pay for quick charge every day after Dec 31. That will cost as much as the gas I am saving almost but I would not have a car payment as well.

 

[vrwl]

I just lost my second bar. Aug 22, 2012 14,900 miles

Sorry to hear it myleaf. I've added you to the 2 Bars Lost wiki table.

 

[tbleakne]

>>> there may then be hundreds of bad battery cars in Phoenix. There are only 400 LEAF's in the whole state of Arizona.O

This has probably been discussed before in this very long thread, but this is the first I have seen of the AZ total. How many of these 400 are on this forum?

 

[surfingslovak]

This has probably been discussed before in this very long thread, but this is the first I have seen of the AZ total. How many of these 400 are on this forum?

I tried to get a count in late May to get an idea of the significance of the reports that surfaced on MNL. I could have it wrong, but I found around 100 registered forum members from AZ, of which approximately 50 are active.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

I love my car but I have to drive far and do not want to pay for quick charge every day after Dec 31. That will cost as much as the gas I am saving almost but I would not have a car payment as well.

really?? how much is your QC cost? we still have been provided not a single shred of info