Can I own a Leaf without a garage?

[fooljoe]

If I go with the AC route, would TurboCord be OK to use?

No, the TurboCord is a 16 amp EVSE, and I believe you said the A/C circuit was a 15 amp circuit, right? The amperage you charge at must never be more than 80% of the rating of the circuit (assuming no other loads on the circuit.) So a 16 amp EVSE like the TurboCord needs a 20 amp circuit, and for your 15 amp circuit you need a 12 amp (or less) EVSE.

As others have mentioned, the best choices there are openEVSE, evseupgrade, and LCS-15. I'd prefer the first two because when and if you move and/or choose to have an electrician come out and install a new circuit for charging, then you can use the same EVSE at a higher power, while the LCS-15 will only ever give you 12 amps, no more no less. Clipper Creek is a well respected brand and it's an off-the-shelf, UL listed product, so if those things concern you then go with the LCS-15 (although I imagine modifying it to use a plug and also possibly using an extension cord would violate whatever "protection" UL listing affords you.) FWIW, I have 3 EVSE upgrades, 1 open EVSE, and 1 clipper creek.

As far as "right to charge" laws, I thought I mentioned that a couple pages back... Anyway I think AB-2565 is the one in question.

 

[fooljoe]

*are you sure the AC is on 240V? There are window units that run 120V. I've not seen a 15A 240V circuit. FYI, 240V circuits go to 2 breakers, or a double-breaker.

Do make sure you verify this before you go out and buy anything! I'd get a voltmeter and test out the outlet to be sure, but visually it should look like this (yes there certainly are 15A 240V circuits):

And do have an electrician at least come out for a quote, even if you don't think you'll go that route. You might learn some more useful stuff about your setup in the process.

 

[fooljoe]

People are lazy when they say that 240V is faster than 120V. Really, higher power is faster, no matter the voltage, since the car converts any input to exactly the voltage it needs.

Getting OT here, but that's not exactly true. Of course in theory 240V @ 6A should equal 120V @ 12A, but I actually tested this out and found 240V to be at least 10% more efficient, even with the same power. So it seems voltage does matter in practice.

In general, 120V outlets supply far less power than a 220V, and there's no way to change that apart from running new line and breakers. You can bump the voltage, but the amps will go down in kind to keep I = V/R.

Circuits are limited by amps, not by power, so if you can bump the voltage that the lines carry you can get more power out of the same lines. Of course no device you plug in can change what the lines carry, however. A dedicated 120V circuit could be converted to 240V using the same lines, by simply connecting to a new two-pole breaker at the panel and swapping out the receptacle on the other end. You should also put some black or red tape on the typically white neutral line at both ends to indicate that despite its jacket it's being used as a hot and not a neutral.

 

[JPWhite]

There is a LEAF owner I know in Georgia who lives in an apartment complex and has owned a LEAF since 2011.

She was able to convince the apartment complex to install a 240v outlet (I believe she paid for the install) and had her Portable EVSE upgraded to 240v operation by EVSEUpgrade.com. Works great.

If I were you I'd get the apartment complex on board with your plans before you commit to the LEAF.

 

[Foschas]

"SB880 is a law to make void and unenforceable any homeowners association rule prohibiting an owner from putting in their own equipment in their own carport. It is good that you brought it up, but not applicable to the OP's situation."

http://www.natlawreview.com/article/california-update-new-laws-give-residential-and-commercial-tenants-rights-to-install

This is what I was referring to.

 

[blinder]

If I go with the AC route, would TurboCord be OK to use?

No, the TurboCord is a 16 amp EVSE, and I believe you said the A/C circuit was a 15 amp circuit, right? The amperage you charge at must never be more than 80% of the rating of the circuit (assuming no other loads on the circuit.) So a 16 amp EVSE like the TurboCord needs a 20 amp circuit, and for your 15 amp circuit you need a 12 amp (or less) EVSE.

As others have mentioned, the best choices there are openEVSE, evseupgrade, and LCS-15. I'd prefer the first two because when and if you move and/or choose to have an electrician come out and install a new circuit for charging, then you can use the same EVSE at a higher power, while the LCS-15 will only ever give you 12 amps, no more no less. Clipper Creek is a well respected brand and it's an off-the-shelf, UL listed product, so if those things concern you then go with the LCS-15 (although I imagine modifying it to use a plug and also possibly using an extension cord would violate whatever "protection" UL listing affords you.) FWIW, I have 3 EVSE upgrades, 1 open EVSE, and 1 clipper creek.

As far as "right to charge" laws, I thought I mentioned that a couple pages back... Anyway I think AB-2565 is the one in question.

Well then, I eliminate TurboCord and go with EVSE upgrade or Clipper Creek.
How much is EVSE upgrade anyway? and any tax credit?
BTW, how long does it take to charge for EVSE upgrade at 12 Amp? I hope its no as long as L1?

 

[blinder]

*are you sure the AC is on 240V? There are window units that run 120V. I've not seen a 15A 240V circuit. FYI, 240V circuits go to 2 breakers, or a double-breaker.

Do make sure you verify this before you go out and buy anything! I'd get a voltmeter and test out the outlet to be sure, but visually it should look like this (yes there certainly are 15A 240V circuits):

And do have an electrician at least come out for a quote, even if you don't think you'll go that route. You might learn some more useful stuff about your setup in the process.

Yes! Yes!
My AC outlet is exactly like your picture. I was going to take a picture and show it to forum, but I don't know how to upload.

Now that you have the picture.......it eliminate much concern with posters here. Thank You!

 

[pkulak]

Getting OT here, but that's not exactly true. Of course in theory 240V @ 6A should equal 120V @ 12A, but I actually tested this out and found 240V to be at least 10% more efficient, even with the same power. So it seems voltage does matter in practice.

Well, sure. The farther you go up or down, the more your conversion losses. I wasn't trying to get too far into the weeds.

Circuits are limited by amps, not by power, so if you can bump the voltage that the lines carry you can get more power out of the same lines. Of course no device you plug in can change what the lines carry, however. A dedicated 120V circuit could be converted to 240V using the same lines, by simply connecting to a new two-pole breaker at the panel and swapping out the receptacle on the other end. You should also put some black or red tape on the typically white neutral line at both ends to indicate that despite its jacket it's being used as a hot and not a neutral.

Yup. Changing an existing circuit to two-pole would be a pretty good way to double the power. I wonder if you could get an EVSE that would support 12 amps and 240 volts, though.

 

[RonDawg]

Well then, I eliminate TurboCord and go with EVSE upgrade or Clipper Creek.

You still need a 240 volt circuit. And Quick220 is NOT going to be practical in your setup. You're unlikely to find another nearby 120 volt outlet that is not on the same "leg" as the first one, and if anything is going to generate complaints from other tenants, it's going to be multiple cords stretched everywhere.

How much is EVSE upgrade anyway? and any tax credit?

$287, but you have to send in your EVSE to be upgraded, so you will need to find an alternate charging solution. If the EVSE is in brand new condition, you can apply for the "rush" service but it's a $75 (IIRC) "rush fee" and the company puts an $800 or so hold on your credit card until they get yours. They have to do this because an already-upgraded one is being sent to you in advance.

Tax credits for EVSE purchase and installation expired at the end of 2013.

BTW, how long does it take to charge for EVSE upgrade at 12 Amp? I hope its no as long as L1?

12 amp 120 volt or 12 amp 240 volt? 12 amp 120 volt is L1. A fully depleted 24 kWH Leaf takes 8 hours to fully recharge at 240 volts 16 amps, so the same car at 240 volts/12 amps would take 25% longer, or 10 hours.

 

[fooljoe]

BTW, how long does it take to charge forEVSE Upgradeat 12 Amp? I hope its no as long as L1?

C'mon now, I answered that back on page 3!

Can you give me a simple answer whether this set up will work? and it will charge faster than L1? And how long would it take to fully charge?

The simple answer is sure, it would work. With a 240V/15A circuit you'll charge at 12A and have twice the power available as L1 (120V/12A). Charges would complete in a little less than half the time, however, as charging at 240V is more efficient. Roughly you can expect to replenish about 10 miles per hour at that rate, so figure about 7 hours to replace what you use for your 65 mile commute.

As RonDawg mentioned, the EVSE upgrade is $287, but you have to add a bit on to that if you want advance replacement, and it's also a good idea to add $25 for an adapter so you can still use regular 120V outlets, and also add another $20 for a pigtail that you can use to make an adapter for your A/C outlet. Here's the plug you'd need for that on Amazon. Depending on the length you need, you might want to custom-make a slightly longer adapter, however.

Where exactly in SoCal are you (PM me if you like)? If it's not too far out of my way you could possibly borrow one of my EVSEs so as not to have to worry about the advance replacement stuff, and I could maybe come by and try out charging my car from your A/C outlet to make sure everything works out alright.

 

[RegGuheert]

BTW, how long does it take to charge for EVSE upgrade at 12 Amp? I hope its no as long as L1?

12 amp 120 volt or 12 amp 240 volt? 12 amp 120 volt is L1. A fully depleted 24 kWH Leaf takes 8 hours to fully recharge at 240 volts 16 amps, so the same car at 240 volts/12 amps would take 25% longer, or 10 hours.

Actually, it would take 33% longer per your calculation, but because the car "wastes" about 300 W of the power for pumps and electronics, the charging time at lower current is even longer than that:

At 240 V and 16 A, the power delivered to the battery is 3840 W - 300 W or 3540 W.

At 240 V and 12 A, the power delivered to the battery is 2880 W - 300 W or 2580 W.

So the ratio of charging times is 3540 W / 2580 W or 1.37 (37% longer at 12 A). So if it takes 8 hours to charge at 16 A, it will take 11 hours to charge at 12 A.

All that said, I will point out that the real answer about charging time depends on the battery's state-of-charge when you plug it in as well as other factors. At 240 V and 16 A, even when it was new our LEAF has never required more than seven hours to charge since the voltage at our home is 250 V and our LEAF's battery has never been fully depleted. Nowadays, it charges in less than six hours since the capacity has degraded some. For most of our trips, we only need to charge for about three hours.

 

[JPWhite]

I could maybe come by and try out charging my car from your A/C outlet to make sure everything works out alright.

Good idea/advice.

I met a new LEAF owner at the local Nissan dealer, they were waiting on me to finish charging at the DCFC. I spoke with them and it turned out they purchased a used 2013 for a song, but then discovered that the outlets at their home would not support a LEAF. I remember reading somewhere that up to 50% of 120v outlets may not be suitable for an EV, due to sharing a circuit or bad/no earth.

I gave them advice on what to get installed by an electrician and suggested a clipper creek. Hope they got it sorted out.

 

[GerryAZ]

There was some discussion a couple posts back about charging time using an EVSE Upgrade. I used my 12-ampere Revision 1 EVSE Upgrade (at nominal 240 volts) to charge my 2015 from shutdown to full charge with only 79 miles on the odometer. The elapsed time was exactly 10 hours (started at 2320 and finished at 0920 the next morning). The energy from the wall was 26.41 kWh.

There has been discussion in several posts in this thread about the maximum and minimum currents from an EVSE Upgrade. The original version (Revision 1) was fixed at 12 amperes regardless of the voltage. The next version (Revision 2) was fixed at 16 amperes for 240 volts and 12 amperes for 120 volts. The later versions are adjustable and the maximum current depends upon which Nissan original model is upgraded (16 or 20 amperes). The adjustable ones can be set in 1-ampere increments down to the 6-ampere minimum of the SAE J1772 standard.

Gerry

 

[RonDawg]

BTW, how long does it take to charge for EVSE upgrade at 12 Amp? I hope its no as long as L1?

12 amp 120 volt or 12 amp 240 volt? 12 amp 120 volt is L1. A fully depleted 24 kWH Leaf takes 8 hours to fully recharge at 240 volts 16 amps, so the same car at 240 volts/12 amps would take 25% longer, or 10 hours.

Actually, it would take 33% longer per your calculation, but because the car "wastes" about 300 W of the power for pumps and electronics, the charging time at lower current is even longer than that:

At 240 V and 16 A, the power delivered to the battery is 3840 W - 300 W or 3540 W.

At 240 V and 12 A, the power delivered to the battery is 2880 W - 300 W or 2580 W.

So the ratio of charging times is 3540 W / 2580 W or 1.37 (37% longer at 12 A). So if it takes 8 hours to charge at 16 A, it will take 11 hours to charge at 12 A.

Thanks for the correction.

 

[AndyGT02]

There is one option I haven't seen anyone mention yet: find a level 3 charger between work and home, and use it on occasion as needed. Many of them are still free at dealerships. You're in better shape than you think being able to charge at level 1 in work. The ability to QC on days where you couldn't get all the hours you need at home will give you peace of mind. It only takes 15 - 20 minutes and you won't be doing it every day.

 

[Labgenerator]

I pulled the trigger on a 2013 Leaf about 6 weeks ago without being able to charge at home. I live in a guest house and park on the street, I knew going into it that I would have more to think about when it came charging. I also live in SoCal in the Los Angeles area. It all comes down to how much driving do you do a day and are you close to chargers? I live somewhat close to a few quick chargers that are free and have a charger by my gym. You just have to plan your day a little more at first then you will get in a routine. I have driven a thousand miles and have only spent $15 based on using the free charger and ones outside my gym, grocery store and other places that have stations. The first thing you should do is get the apps, plugshare, charge point, greenlots and so on, and see which ones are close. If you think you can do it then you should as having a leaf is blast. Hope this helps.

 

[JPWhite]

I pulled the trigger on a 2013 Leaf about 6 weeks ago without being able to charge at home. I live in a guest house and park on the street, I knew going into it that I would have more to think about when it came charging. I also live in SoCal in the Los Angeles area. It all comes down to how much driving do you do a day and are you close to chargers? I live somewhat close to a few quick chargers that are free and have a charger by my gym. You just have to plan your day a little more at first then you will get in a routine. I have driven a thousand miles and have only spent $15 based on using the free charger and ones outside my gym, grocery store and other places that have stations. The first thing you should do is get the apps, plugshare, charge point, greenlots and so on, and see which ones are close. If you think you can do it then you should as having a leaf is blast. Hope this helps.

Glad you are enjoying your LEAF as much as you are and were willing to take on a pure EV with no access to charging at home.

Good to hear a success story of someone making it work despite a few challenges.

 

[GetOffYourGas]

I pulled the trigger on a 2013 Leaf about 6 weeks ago without being able to charge at home. I live in a guest house and park on the street, I knew going into it that I would have more to think about when it came charging. I also live in SoCal in the Los Angeles area. It all comes down to how much driving do you do a day and are you close to chargers? I live somewhat close to a few quick chargers that are free and have a charger by my gym. You just have to plan your day a little more at first then you will get in a routine. I have driven a thousand miles and have only spent $15 based on using the free charger and ones outside my gym, grocery store and other places that have stations. The first thing you should do is get the apps, plugshare, charge point, greenlots and so on, and see which ones are close. If you think you can do it then you should as having a leaf is blast. Hope this helps.

Wow, that's great! You took a big risk, but it seems to have worked out well for you. Situations like this will only get easier as range increases and infrastructure grows.